Dressage Riders Please

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Caritas

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Can you please tell me if you ride with a light , medium or heavy contact? Its obviously hard to describe how firm your contact is, in words but if you can kindly give an explaination and please say what level you compete at? Many thanks
 
I compete at elementary and ride with a light contact. When schooling at home I have to be firm with my mare as she would rather poke her nose. I ride her deep and round, as soon as her head is in the correct position I give the contact so its very light and use my body to control her. Gin would like to lean and get heavy in the hand, she tries to pull me forward to avoid being correct. Thats one of the reasons I ride her with a very light contact.
 
My aim would be to have both my ponies in self carriage & therefore a light contact, if in doubt half halt, half halt again & again. They both compete at elementary. One would love to lean on me if she could, sorry love, carry your own head is the answer!!
 
But you need to have a contact to ride into??? My horse use to be so light and he had learned to fall behind the bit. Surely you need to have a contact before you can give it away??
 
If the horse is sufficiently engaged & taking enough weight back you will be able to give the rein because he will be carrying himself. If your horse is hiding behind the bit, then yes I agree, you would have to ride him into your hand, then use your half halt to encourage him to lift his back & carry you. Hope that helps a bit.
 
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But you need to have a contact to ride into??? My horse use to be so light and he had learned to fall behind the bit. Surely you need to have a contact before you can give it away??

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A light contact is still a contact, you dont ride with nothing in the hand but the hand should be passive and soft.
Falling behind the contact isnt the same as light in the hand. The nose must work forward so the neck stretches along, not round and in- this is evasion and as bad as the horse coming above the bit. The answer to a horse that drops behind the bit is not to add a stronger contact, it's to put more leg on and encourage it to put the nose forward into a light contact. A light contact should be the nicest place for the horse to be.

I ride very light in all my aids. That doesnt mean I dont correct the horse when it does the wrong thing. I hate riding horses that have been trained heavy on the hand. One at home is winning elementaries and is horrible to ride. My horses may not be out winning dressage competitions every week but at least theyre a pleasure to train.
 
I think that horses should go in to a fairly strong contact but not pulling. If they are too light I dont believe they can be going truly forward.
It does depend a lot of the time on personal preference of the rider/trainer though!
 
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I think that horses should go in to a fairly strong contact but not pulling. If they are too light I dont believe they can be going truly forward.
It does depend a lot of the time on personal preference of the rider/trainer though!

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Why should they be stronger in the mouth if theyre going forward? Forward doesnt start at/go into the mouth... does it?
Forward for me is an active and pushing hindleg pushing the front end up and light
 
Have always been told you should have a soft arm, but be carrying your own hands, and the contact should feel like the horse is wanting to take you forward, without leaning. The Contact should be a consistant line, which feels like if you pulled back slightly, the horses nose will come back slightly at the same time, so its an even connection down the rein to ride into from your leg. Not always easy though!!
 
Bossanova you explained it far better than me, by ride into the contact I meant more leg, not more rein, sorry. I totally agree that it is horrible to ride horses that are heavy in the rein, & I can well believe that there are horses winning elems that feel horrible to ride. I too love the training & achieving those OMG moments!! We might not win at high level every week, but anyone that is ALLOWED to sit on my 2 says "Oh, she's lovely!!" Couldn't ask for any more could you? No nasty false uphill outlines for me.
 
I explain it like a handshake. If you meet someone and they give you that horrible floppy hand, thats just horrible. Same when they try to squeeze your hand off. But a nice hand would be explained as a medium hand shake...Firm but not overpowering.
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Bossanova, we are so on the same training wave length, quite right, if the hindlegs are engaged & the horse is moving forward off your leg, why would he be heavier in the rein, surely engagement = a lighter forehand, so lighter in the rein, ie self carriage rather than a false manufactured outline. Me thinks we have opened a can of worms here!!
 
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Bossanova, we are so on the same training wave length, quite right, if the hindlegs are engaged & the horse is moving forward off your leg, why would he be heavier in the rein, surely engagement = a lighter forehand, so lighter in the rein, ie self carriage rather than a false manufactured outline. Me thinks we have opened a can of worms here!!

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Thank god someone agrees
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I think it's a great debate, I could talk for hours about this sort of thing. I stick by my principles and train my horses my way.
Each to their own really but biomechanics speak louder than words
 
My understanding of this is that they should be going forward into your hand... to the point where you can move your hand forward and down, and the horses head and neck follow.. I have been taught that if a horse is light in the hand, to ride it more forward and over its back for a while, and through lots of transitions so that it pushes from behind into a containing but also allowing seat and hand.. there is a fine line between pulling and strong, or should I say firm?

As I say, this seems to be personal preference...
 
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My understanding of this is that they should be going forward into your hand... to the point where you can move your hand forward and down, and the horses head and neck follow.. I have been taught that if a horse is light in the hand, to ride it more forward and over its back for a while, and through lots of transitions so that it pushes from behind into a containing but also allowing seat and hand.. there is a fine line between pulling and strong, or should I say firm?

As I say, this seems to be personal preference...

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I know where you're coming from.
There is a very fine line between the two and I have no doubt that you ride on the correct side of that line. However, many riders lack the ability to feel the subtle difference and train the horse with too much hand. Then when they need the hand for other things, the horse is dead to the hand and heavy in the mouth.

I probably train my horses with a hand which verges on being too soft and dont always react quick enough when the horse alters its frame for a moment. But thats why I'm not a dressage rider. I do, however, have the ability to work nappy little moo cows who refuse to work for anyone else!!!
 
I think it doesn't just depend on the rider, but the horse as well. Two different horses, working the same level, both correctly trained, can feel totally different!
I think it was something Carl Hester said (if not, someone of that ilk anyway), that should feel like a bag of sugar?!
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Yes, helpful me!
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I'm going to add a different angle to the debate
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I think that the contact you have varies from horse to horse, I know my little dun mare I have the lightess contact on and I feel like I am holding her lightly on finger and my hands can be quite open (if I wanted them to be as she is just that light) but she is naturally very balanced, engaged and I ride her from almost completely from my seat with the smallest of aids. Now on the other end of the scale, my big boy, isn't naturally balanced at all, although he is just as well schooled and can work at the same level as my mare but I have to hold quite a strong contact on him, my aids are still light because he is schooled to be responsive and listening but my contact has to firm.
So I think I am saying no one is right or wrong, its horses for courses, or horses for dressage arenas in this case
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And that is a fantastic talent!! Its those sort of horses that need your sort of tact! I have the erm.. pleasure of riding a horse that was produced in the way you mention.. with too much hand.. and there is honestly nothing you can do with him to improve his mouth! The guy who trained him was very strong used a double bridle and massive spurs with rowels!
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Personally, IMO it is easier to train a horse that naturally takes a stronger contact to start with - as they generally have confidence in the hand/bit, and it is more straight forward to teach this kind of horse to become lighter but through and true.
However, some horses naturally don't like to take the contact - this is less straight forward as you need to gain their confidence and trust in your hand, before they are willing to take any form of contact, then when they do almost teach them to be "stronger" i mean stronger as in secure and consistent.
My horse was an absolute nightmare to achieve this - for no reason, no physical problems, that is just his nature. I broke him in so no-one has ever been rough with him. Now he has one of the most stillest most consistent head carriages you are likely to see.
I think it is important to remember that to achieve a light contact, comes from self carriage, and requires a great deal of strength on the horses part.

For me, riding a horse which feels light to the point there is nothing there, is one of the most horrible of all!! But that might be just me! lol
 
Hi,
I personally think it does vary from horse to horse and I think that as 'good' riders we should have the ability to get on a new horse and find where it's buttons are and adapt ourselves to get the best out of it. I personally find it easier to ride a horse into a slightly lighter contact rather than a heavy one as I find it hard to keep my arms and back relaxed. (maybe that's just me!)
Sorry to add a further question, but this topic is something I think about everyday. I have had my horse for 8yrs, i bought him because i felt sorry for him. He had not been treated well and had been strapped down to create a false impression (this had happened from the word go). He was 5 when i bought him and I hoped as he was still young and hadn't grown into himself properly that I could make him forget the past. How wrong i was! I work hard on him and put as much effort into him as i can, he is not a very rewarding horse, he is very difficult and my friend (who is very experienced and an excellant horsewoman) thinks i deserve a sainthood for putting up with him and also for getting what i have out of him. (Something i am very proud of).
However, a contact is something i strive for everyday, if you try and take a contact up on him he sits behind it and shrinks his frame (something he learnt from an early age) equally, as other people have already suggested on here, you can't put your leg on and push him forwards into a contact as then he will just shrink his legs and go faster. Don't get me wrong he has got a lot better but I feel that if only I could convince him that a light consistant contact is a happy place to be then other things would improve.
I have regular lessons and he does get good marks out but in my tests i tend to spend most of my time covering things up. I do have to add that my poor boy does have conformational difficulties so i am well aware that what I am asking for is difficult for him, i just want to make the most of him and get as much out of him as I can.
You guys seem good at offering advice and i'm always open to suggestions hence my post..........
 
Try pushing him forward before you take any contact, almost let him pick up some steam in the trot while you are just holding the buckle so to speak.. once he is going confidently forward (probably like a giraffe
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) then start to take the contact up slowly.... if he curls behind the bit again.. take him back to trotting forward without asking him to come down onto the bit... using some outside flexion can help to strengthen the contact slightly, if he is confident enough to take it! just keep repeating this until he can accept a bit of contact for a little longer.. try to keep your hands pretty still ( so as not to soften him behind the bit) and steer him by turning your shoulders, almost as though your eyes are in your chest and they are looking in the direction you are going..
It makes sense when I teach it but its difficult to explain the feeling I think... partoow where are you!?
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Thanks v much, will try (it might make him think it's his idea then which he prefers a lot more than when he thinks he is actually having to do something for me!!)
He is getting good marks out BD novice (never going to be a world beater mind you!) but I would like to do some elem's and at the moment I can do the bits and bobs but the transition between movements is a little slow and I feel if he was a little more consistent I could ask for more a little quicker.
 
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I explain it like a handshake. If you meet someone and they give you that horrible floppy hand, thats just horrible. Same when they try to squeeze your hand off. But a nice hand would be explained as a medium hand shake...Firm but not overpowering.
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That is a really neat explanation.

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bbmat, that last post was really interesting, & I agree with Bosanova there is a fine line between the 2, you are obviously very skilled & have the ability to ride in this way without a pulling hand. Bossanova, you don't train at the TTT do you, all this talk of Biomechanics?? This way defo works for me, I want the horse between my rein seat & leg, holding her with my seat & leg, not my hand. The horse must learn to balance & hold himself, not sit on the riders hands to balance, he must sit on his bum!! By the way my SJ trainer teaches this way as well, they are the only jumping lessons I've ever had that include shoulder in!!!
 
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Bossanova, you don't train at the TTT do you, all this talk of Biomechanics??

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How did you guess?
Yep, very involved with the TTT
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It depends on what im on, on dol my contact is firm but also giving, on the 4 year old, i have to have a heavier contact as he takes the piss otherwise and runs on it!
There is no specific contact you should have as sonme horses are heavier on the hand than others.
Ridden to Inter 1 and international juniors.
x
 
I keep my hands light and soft at all times with Archie as hes sensitive in the mouth - i also make sure there is plenty of 'elasticity' through my elbows. Im currently competing him at Novice/Elementary, but hes training at medium. If he gets heavy in my hands i lift my hands quickly but firmly to get him to sit back and under and lighten in front. He used to be really overbent, but now he carries himself nicely, but can get overbent if hes tired.
 
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