Dressage saddles - and sour grapes?

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tuscanyD

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I posted elsewhere asking about thoughts regarding the Stubben Scanica dressage saddle.

I just sold my Wintec 500 dressage for this second hand saddle [£430] - the plus is that it fits my horse beautifully and she seems to like it a lot.

BUT I feel that the stirrup bar seems more forward than I would expect from a dressage saddle. When I first tried it and sat in it I didn't notice it as the seat [Elk hide - apparently!]was much nicer than my old saddle - I was blinded to its flaws!

But now I'm feeling that it doesn't help me sit as correctly as I thought a nice saddle would!

I have sat in a very expensive dressage saddle which held you in place - it was impossible to collapse because you were wedged in position! It sort of felt like a bit of a cheat really - I wondered how many of those very fabulous looking dressage riders would look so impressive or be as effective sitting in a budget saddle that the majority of us have to cope with.

This was backed up by the owner of the lovely saddle [and winner of local dresage leagues] then sitting on my horse and looking like a total novice! I don't mean any disrespect to her as I know she still worked very hard at her riding .
But money helps doesn't it.

IT's NOT FAIR!!!

Ok sorry got that out of the way - of course there is an element of sour grapes going on - as I can't afford a very posh saddle [i'm up to budget at £430] nor can I afford to have 2 lessons a week with fabulous dressage trainers at £40 a time [or anyone at the moment for that matter].

I am sure there are many really lovely dressage riders who are doing it on a shoestring budget and on an old cavalry saddle or something and I know how hard all of us who aspire to the art work at whatever level you are at.


So it's too easy to believe that lots of lessons and expensive kit is going to turn me into Anky Wotsername - it isn't - because in spite of my bitter twistedness the fact is that I'm not a naturally fabulous rider anyway - I've no doubt it would help though and if I could find a budget saddle that would give my basic position and seat and bit of extra help then why the hell not.

I've no idea what the point of this stream of conciousness is - answers on a postcard please....

Maybe saddle recommendations?? Just join in with your own thoughts.
 
The position of the stirrup bar is probably the most important thing in a dressage saddle, as if it is set too far forward there is no way you can achieve the correct shoulder, hip, heel alignment which is a prerequisite for an effective seat. Unfortunately, no one seems to have told this to Stubben!

As regards the huge knee and thigh rolls that you see on a lot of dressage saddles - imho they are a matter of taste. Some people find that they help them to keep their legs long (by physically preventing them from bringing their knee up). Some people dislike them, and opt for the more traditional style of dressage saddle like the Passiers.

Having said all this, though, remember that for years grand prix dressage was ridden in calvary style saddles - look at the old pictures from the Olympics in years past - like this

[image]http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43b4c6c8z7ae71a1c/2b5ascd/__sr_/f142scd.jpg?phoCLNFBqmES0oIy[/image]

ets: sorry, can't get the image to display - cut and past I'm afraid.
 
eurgh - dressage saddles don't get me started!! I had a wintec pro similar to yours but had the suedey stuff all over I got it second hand and it was fab, but oh no I wanted a fancy leather one. So scoured the inetrnet and got a bates caprilli one as I liked the idea of changing the blocks as my horse is only young and growing etc. BIG Mistake the caprilli was so wrong for me the stirrup bar was too back and I tilted too far forwards it was awful I was so insecure.

Anyway with the help of local saddle found my dream saddle, which is actually a straight cut show saddle, a jeffries stamford. Its amazing puts me in a good position with my stirrups long and can yank them up for hacking and even jumping and am still secure.
 
I personally dont like the stubben saddles but that is from a dressage point of view. The stirrup bars are very far forwards (have they even moved them at all?) and make it impossible to sit correctly. For me, it has always felt like stubben catered to the jumping market rather well and suddenly decided one day to make dressage saddles as an after thought.

I agree with the above poster on the knee blocks. When i bought my new dressage saddle in the summer (opted for a wow), I had a choice between giant knee blocks and "normal". Before sitting in them, I was set on having the giant blocks as I thought these would help my position more. Once I got there and tried, both my trainer and myself agree'd on the "normal" ones as the larger ones were very, very intrusive.

I do understand what you mean about the dressage saddles and yes, they can help your position. However, sitting a poor rider in a very good saddle wont magically transform them into a great rider... the riders on my livery yard pay testimony to this on a daily basis. Its great to have all the flashy gear, but it's more impressive to be a genuinely good rider in my opinion!

So, in your position I would a) have a scout round at the prices on some other dressage saddles (second hand most likely). Albion for example, do a whole range of saddles aside from the SLK that all the top dressage riders are seen in and you'll find these will help sit you correctly. I seem to remember being offered a brand new albion dressage saddle in a sale at frogpool manor for around the £500 mark. Although, obviously, this wasnt the SLK.

Alternatively, I'd be inclined to look at the Thorowgood Richard Davison dressage saddle. If the saddle can sit you correctly, then why worry about the materials it's made out of.
 
The hunt for a good saddle that fits both you and your horse can take far longer and be far more painful (and even more expensive) than finding the horse in the first place.

yet another thing that puts me off looking for a new horse as after 4 years I'd just got the right saddle when horse had to be retired. Arghhhh

Am now planning on picking my new horse by the one that fits the saddle I already have
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I agree re your remark about the position of the stirrup bar - there was a remark a while back on the thread about 'things you've done that everyone here would hate' - someone threw in owning a Stubben and I wonderd what was wrong with rthem.

I'm thinking the stirrup bar position must be it!

Great picture - just goes to show its a poor craftsman who blames his tools eh. Nonetheless I think as an apprentice craftsman [or possibly even just work experience..] extra tools would be groovy.

I may have to flog this saddle and get a new one.
 
I bought a Stubben and didn't like it, my knees seemed to poke out over the front of the flaps, even with my stirrups really long. So I found a Prestige saddle for £150 on ebay - they are around, and it is so much easier to sit properly.

A good saddle does help a lot.
 
Sorry didn't see the other replies!

Thanks for your thoughts - hope I'mnot just sounding like a sulky brat!

My main aim of a new saddle was to get one that fitted my mare much better that was within my budget. The wintec wasn't bad at all but was flattening out a bit.
I'm not really worried about the material although I do find that both of us get sweatier with a synthetic and leather has a nicer feel.

Because she is broad with high withers he recommended a wide saddle with a cut back head - and they did all fit her beautifully - I think I may ring him back and get him to come out again although no doubt as this saddle was sold on someone elses behalf i'll probably have to wait to sell it to be able to change!
 
My old trainer who is really hot on saddlery always told me to avoid Stubben dressage saddles at all costs for the exact reason you state, the stirrup bar in in the wrong place i.e. too far forward.

I have a Saddle Company dressage saddle and to be honest find the bar on that is too forward but my horse goes superbly in it so I will just have to get on with it.

I have also been down the "must have big blocks" route and hated them. For me the Devoucoux Makila works well but no so good for one of my horses and they are expensive.
 
I need big blocks as I have short legs! I need all the help I can get especially when riding huge moving horses. My old trainer was in the prefect dressage position in whatever saddle she was on!

I don't like stubbens because I feel they don't distribute weight well. If you feel the stuffing it is quite pointy rather than flat. Therefore the pressure hits the horses' back in a point.

The saddle I am looking for is a single flap with front knee rolls. Possibly a devocoux malika!
 
interesting points all

will have a look at the stuffing out of interest but i hve to say the mare does go very well in it and moves very freely so i'm not concerned on that point.
 
I need one secondhand. So will be searching! Does it fit pretty much anything? It is such a beautiful saddle. All my saddles fit all my horses without exception! But the seat is coming of my armchair klimke miller - very very comfy! I sat on an antares dressage which was so nice - gave me a really long leg! But at £2500 a little out of my budget.
 
i am one of those 'lucky' dressage riders in that ive got an Albion SLK Ultima Narrow. however on swapping to this saddle yes it does give me a really nice position, but i had a good position before i had it. (not trying to sound big headed here, just making a point). I dont get anymore marks now for my position than i did before with my old saddle. but this new saddle is great for my back (suffer periodically from slipped discs) and it fits my horse (s) really well.

my old saddle is going to be used on Bloss now as my albion is going to be used on new horsey - my old saddle isnt as comfortable, but i can still hold my position in it.
 
You can get the panels changed by Devoucoux, costs around £250 I think. Both of mine are on medium trees but have completely different panels. The seat sizes are quite small and mine are 18" (all my other saddles are 17.5"), if you buy new you can have different size flaps to suit your legs. New calfskin one is about £2k and with buffalo hide add another £150 ish, you wait about 3 months for delivery. they also hold their value very well.
 
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Yes the Devoucoux Makila is single flap with largish front blocks, seat is deep but not like a bucket. It is the one Pippa Funnell uses.

1066904547868671089ima.jpg


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Lush I NNNEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDD!

Regarding other points, I ride and school flatwork wise in a stubben jump saddle lol
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. I would at some point like a straighter cut saddle for me
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Gh
 
I actually don't really like albions. They don't fit my horses or suit me! Find they are also quite long in the leg flap. Saddle are as much personal choice as horses are!

I don't think a saddle will give someone an improved position. But as you get to the higher levels and need ultimate control over every foot fall then the saddle has to be correct. For example I had a saddle without blocks up to medium but was told that I really would be helped by a different saddle that would help me as the mare was exceptionally big moving. Hence the big knee blocks!

It is always illuminating watching people ride dressage on a close contact dressage saddle.
 
Thanks that is really helpful..... Think I might have to try one - as one of my horses is too short for a 17.5". And I have a large arse. (Pilates really isn't working.
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) The dressage horse is huge so he could have an 18"!
 
albions are for well built and muscled horses - jaguars are fr more narrow horses (according to my saddler), i have long legs hence i got one as i needed a saddle with longer flaps so that it fitted me properly as well as my horse.
 
I have a wintec pro dressage and initially I hated it, but now I love it and can sit to my horse even when head between legs and bucking
 
I'm shorter still at 5.1", I have big knee rolls and love them. I use Swain and Humphries in Walsall, Barry is great and can fit a saddle to both horse and rider (with a big bum) perfectly.
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