Dressage - slow but forwards

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Maclinda

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Default Dressage - forward but slow
This is probably going to end up a bit long winded so apologies in advance. My instructor has always said my horse is very forward thinking and because she is so big he always wants me to slow her down in order that she engages her brain and doesn't let all her activity head out the front door. Recently I was lucky enough to have a lesson with an ex Olympic dressage rider and he said exactly the same, slow her down, slow her down, slow her (you get the idea). He said that because she is so active I can afford to slow her in order to again engage her brain and help her relax more. And if she made a mistake and dropped down a pace I was not to automatically kick her but to pat her and try again. I did question whether the sllloooowwwww pace was working trot (I do prelim/novice) and he said "this is working trot".

So fast forward a couple of weeks and I've been really working on this, I feel it's making a huge difference in making her relax and accepting of the contact and much softer so today took her to her first dressage test in a long while. I thought both test went lovely but when I got my sheets back all the comments were "not going forwards, behind the leg, needs to be ridden more positively etc...........

So now I don't know what to do. Do I continue with what I'm being trained to do and ignore the judges comments, or when riding a test do I make her much more "forwards" and risk her rushing and getting upset.

I know forwards doesn't mean fast but with a horse that I've always been told is very forwards I am now confused about what is for the best.

Thoughts would be great!
 
Only based on my (extremely) limited experience of dressage, but my horse definitely backs off when we enter the arena; it is no doubt my nerves; I tense, he senses it and the handbrake goes on. Maybe it was just this, esp if it was your first time out in a while?
 
I would be listening to my instructors - it sounds like she could be a bit of a superstar in the future, especially as you go up the grades. Play the long game, far better to have relaxed and rhythmical established now :)
 
Your training is going well, you have been told the same by two different well qualified people, so stick with what you are doing for now rather than change things just from the comments made by one judge who is only seeing what is in front of them for around 5 mins.

Once your horse really slows down and engages properly, which is still not established, she will look far more powerful and forward, just make sure when you are schooling that you do not shut down the engine too much and that she is still reactive to the leg, I often have to slow people down and they can go through a stage of looking too flat but once the horse is stronger and has learnt how to relax everything falls into place.
 
Ditto the others - I wouldn't worry about one judge.

I am also at Prelim / Novice and have been working hard on building suppleness (my horse is extremely one-sided) and self-carriage. We've been getting 66-67.9% at affiliated Prelim. In our last test he felt the best he ever has but we only got 65%. I watched some other combinations and compared scores, and I could see the judge liked very forward horses (almost rushing) with a strong contact. It won't make me change what we're working on but it may make me avoid that judge in future ;-)
 
Sadly this is all too common and why I stopped taking my horse out, he is very forward going and I took it very slowly to teach him self carriage and slower but bigger strides. He is very balanced and straight and very well muscled (or at least was before he became poorly!). The judges (unaffiliated but at good venues!) all said they wanted my horse more forward but then he would just rush rather than relax into the contact, so I decided I preferred relaxed, supple and happy & stopped going to shows! He is the most lovely sensitive horse to ride and I decided to train him for me, not the judges, many of whose methods of training on the whole I don't agree with. Some of the people that beat me were far better than me and definitely deserved to score much higher than me, but there were plenty out there who weren't riding with any finesse and the horses looked very unhappy and they would get far higher marks despite the horses looking forced and held together.

I would ask your instructor which judges like their training methods and find out where they are judging try and ask them to recommend some well run venues. You are then much more likely to get judges that understand your horse's way of going. If your horse is happy and improving, the method you are using is clearly working so don't change unless it's for the better!
 
I'm going through the same at the moment, Mare is really buzzy and wants to go 10000000 miles an hour... Have slowed her right down, established proper throughness in places (work in progress) and she feels like a slug! But looking at videos, she looks just right. Once she's properly lose and supple, I can ask for more l, without her getting rushed, but at her stage, keeping it all small, slow and consistent, only riding bigger when her body feels right.
She almost always got comments that she's hurried before, last test she didn't!
I expect, as she gets stronger, the elevation will start to come, there's glimpses already :)
 
Sounds like you might be at that in between stage with your training at the moment :) It sounds like you have successfully got your mare to work with a slower temp now, which has allowed her to relax and hopefully start to work a little more over the back. Based on the judges comments on the day, you might need to make sure she is still pushing from behind; that is, working with impulsion. It would be impossible to achieve all this in one lesson, as you are essentially re-training your horse and she will need time to grasp the concept and build up her muscles as she uses herself differently. By getting her to take active, yet slower steps, she will have the energy behind her to be in front of the leg.
 
Another going through the same - it feels like we get 'stuck' sometimes, especially in the canter which can end up almost stationary! The canter is usually a forward XC canter (ahem ;) ) so when she sits back it feels so much slower and bouncier.

My instructor is happy with how the mare is going though and she certainly feels fab so I'm just keeping at it until I can ask for more forwards without losing balance.
 
So glad each of you gave me the response I was looking for and a lot of you are going through the same thing. Thanks!!!!!! Really loving the way she is going right now and feel I'm on the right track so will stick with it but make sure she's pushing off her hind legs and propelling forwards rather than just rushing. Onwards and upwards :) :) :)
 
Maclinda said:
So glad each of you gave me the response I
was looking for and a lot of you are going through the same thing. Thanks!!!!!! Really loving the way she is going right now and feel I'm on the right track so will stick with it but make sure she's pushing off her hind legs and propelling forwards rather than just rushing. Onwards and upwards :) :) :)
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Exactly. Propelling forwards not rushing. Just stick with it you will get there. And as others have said just because those judges didnt like it doesn't mean they are right. Sounds like they aren't to me why would you want speed in dressage?

I haven't got the same with my boy so can't give any tips I am afraid. Although i did find with another horse who was very heavy on the forehand that tiny circles in trot made her become so light the difference shocked me. I know your girl isn't heavy but it would help her work from her back end better maybe. Just really small circles as small as you can make them and do sitting trot it will be easier to ride to then.
 
Both maybe right.

Sometimes in training we do something whilst looking for the bigger picture. I do find that in general the working trot is under ridden and needs to be more forwards but the key here is the old 'energy versus speed' scenario. You have a lovely forward thinking horse, which you must not rob her of that want, but maybe at this time she doesn't have the back muscle or equine '6-pack' to hold her balance and show her real talent. So the trainers are right to say at this stage you need to curb her enthusiasm, slow her some and help her stay in balance. Then in time as she gets physically stronger she will naturally open out more, which will then gain higher marks.

Edited to add: This is why I would take medium trot out of novice level - riders try to show more and end up with speed across the diagonal as opposed to the horse having learnt to sit first and push from behind.
 
That is so interesting! I had the exact same experience in my lesson yesterday, my mare has an enormous stride but this often causes her to become heavy in the hand and very downhill. My new instructor told me exactly the same as yours and she is currently riding for Scotland. I would just keep working at it, maybe your horse lost a little bit of the activity behind and that is what made her look a little bit flat and not forward? its a hard thing to retrain but I wouldn't worry about it. Sometimes the judges are looking for one thing in particular! just look at is as a training day and move on!
Good luck with your future competitions
 
There is a big difference between behind the leg and slow. There have been some sensible posts about sticking with it, I am the other way around, we need more impulsion so we are always treading the fineline between too quick and just right. At lower levels the moving forwards in rhythm is important and it sounds like you have a horse that will eventually suit higher levels if it has that much power.

One thing to bear in mind about judges (being a trainee myself) is that we have NO idea what your are trying to achieve in you test we can only 'say what we see'. Example from the weekend, I have improved massively ove the last year - several independent soures confirm. BUT I got 59% in my novice and 56% in my elementary because what was a massive improvement in moving forwards actually verged on being unbalanced. the judge isn't wrong, my trainers aren't wrong, we are just at that stage. We might go out next month and nail it! :)
 
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