Dressage Test Comment - Help needed please re. hands & head carriage.

AFlapjack

AFlapjack

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Competed at an ODE Sunday and rode the BE90 Dressage Test 91.

Pony behaved relatively well although we need to work on half halts and more right bend, but I knew this already and it's a work in progress. :)

The judge's last comment said, "Very promising but as yet your hands are not allowing him to come soft in outline and steady in head carriage". There were also a few comments saying, "Wobbling in the head".

Mum had told me his head was moving side to side in trot and it seems from the comments it happens only in trot.

Can someone please explain what's happening and why it's happening and what I have to do with my hands and my contact to stop it.
I feel awful now, poor pony! :(

One other thing is that he was in a very sluggish mood so could this affect it?

Any comments or suggestions more than welcome, thank you.
xxxx
 
If your hands allow him to soften more then hopefully it will stop happening.

You need to relax your hands so soft on his mouth and have contact without being heavy with hands. Keep your elbows bent lossely not stiff to soften arms and hands. Bend thumb onto reins not flat as this helps hands soften.
 
A lot of people (myself included once) when they are first learning how to put a horse 'on the bit' get into the bad habit of fiddling with their hands to get the horse to drop onto the bit. They first bring one hand back, then the other. It is a see-saw type action, which then causes the horse to move it's head from side to side with the action of the bit. Most commonly, this occurs in the trot but not the walk or canter.

It is impossible to say this definatly is the case here, without seeing video of you riding. It might be worth really focusing on your hands though and make sure you are keeping them still, and seeing if that makes a difference to what your pony does with his head in trot.

If this is the problem, don't be too disheartened. It is a mistake nearly every amateur will have made at some point in their riding career, and some lessons with a good dressage instructor will help you sort it :)

If it's not the case, then without seeing some video the problem is beyond me!

Good luck!
 
Try keeping a firm contact, but obviously keep your elbows bent and forearms relaxed etc. I ride a dressage mare who will occasionally do the same in trot and nod her head, I normally take a firm hold of the right rein (which is generally where she is more tense/heavy etc) and keep holding until she accepts the contact and stops nodding.

Agree with the above that it could also be because you are sawing rather than holding the contact until he gives.
 
When your hands are soft, your elbows should feel like the heaviest part of your arm. Try thinking 'heavy elbows' - it is a vaguely similar feeling to dropping your weight into your heels, ie you are relaxing not forcing them. (This really helps some people, others look at me blankly, so sorry if I'm not making sense).

Another point to consider is that the judge may have thought you were asking for a rounder outline by wiggling your hands rather than allowing your horse to seek the contact. I have no idea if you were, but if the horse's head was moving from side to side this could be what it looked like. This might be why the judge made th point several times as obv. this is not really the idea!

Lastly I think you are on the right track when you mention that your horse was not feeling very forward. A horse cannot connect / collect without impulsion. If the horse was just not feeling enthusiastic on that particular day then fair enough. If this is a recurring issue then you need to spend some time reminding your horse about moving away from your leg.

I hope this helps :)
 
If your hands move up and down as you rise in trot, you will find it difficult to get a consistent head carriage as this jolts the bit in the horse's mouth and makes it not want to soften. One of mine is VERY sensitive to this, so that even a tiny movement causes her to raise her head. You have to kind of think of your hands as a pivot, and move around them (what my RI used to say anyway lol!).
 
Thank you all for your comments they are much appreciated.

I have seen riders doing the sawing action described and I think I don't do that, or at least don't do it consciously! :o

I certainly DO have a problem with my elbows though and I struggle to keep them bent. I'm afraid I don't have any video footage but there was a professional photographer that took a few photos:

http://www.jayphotos.co.uk/events/1..._Flapjack_Alice Crawford/?pic=33CJ01-4775.JPG
http://www.jayphotos.co.uk/events/1..._Flapjack_Alice Crawford/?pic=33CJ01-4776.JPG
http://www.jayphotos.co.uk/events/1..._Flapjack_Alice Crawford/?pic=33CJ01-4777.JPG

I took him for a short schooling sesh tonight and tried to concentrate on keeping my elbows bent and hands soft but mum was at work so couldn't watch me.

Steorra I think I do understand about the heavy elbows thing, so thank you :D

I will continue working on it and report back!

Thanks again for all your help xxxx
 
The only other thing I can see from the photos which may contribute (but then as it's just still photos it may just be where the photographer caught you!) is that you need to have your thumbs more on top as they seem to be turned in which will mean you will not be able to soften and have a true contact on the rein.

As a serial hand-turner-inner it's something I've also been working hard to correct as you lose that connection to the horse's mouth - similar to having stiff elbows in that you can't soften. You may find that concentrating on this helps your half halts as well.
 
Also, see if you can get someone to video you riding at home/in a lesson and also during a test - I'm sure I'm not alone in having tension through my arms in a comp environment compared with when I'm working at home, so you may find it's something you wouldn't ordinarily do but which becomes clear to you as a different position/contact etc. when you compare videos.

Just a suggestion! :o)
 
Thank you. Ahh there is so much to think about, my brain won't be able to cope! :eek: :p

I am competing at an ODE this weekend & am riding the same dressage test so will charge up my video camera and get mum to record it. At least then if I get similar comments I will know what the judge is seeing, I suppose.

I'm sure I probably do tense up because recently he's started spooking during the dressage and trying to bomb off with me so I've been anticipating it and getting worked up about it. Which probably sets him off! :rolleyes:

Argh!
 
I've had a look at the piccies - lovely pony :) Your leg position looks good and very stable so I don't think you are balancing on your hands. However your arms are rather straight: there should be a direct line between your elbows, your hands and the horse's mouth. Imagine drawing a line from the horse's mouth to your hand and beyond on any of the photos - it would be nowhere near your elbows.

This is hard to see without actually watching you ride, so I apologise if I have this wrong. But from the pictures your whole upper body looks tense: your back and shoulders seem rigid and this will affect the position of your hands, which in turn affect your horse's head carriage. Work on this at home, as any tension issues will be worse when competing.

When you are riding and want to work on this, start by relaxing your jaw. Even gently move your lower jaw if it helps! This sounds really funny but it will actually help you become softer through your neck and shoulders. Rather than maintaining your upright position (which is v. good by the way) by straightening your back, try engaging your core instead, and relax the big muscles that run on either side of your spine.

You can then concentrate on having 'heavy elbows'. With your back and shoulders softer this will feel a lot more natural.

Don't worry about your horse's head / neck position while you are doing this. Practise in walk and trot, with him forward but not rushing. Once your hands are soft he may well round and soften of his own accord.

I don't mean to criticise as you look like you are already doing a good job. But I think the exciting thing about dressage is that each time I think I am doing just fine, I find there is a whole other level above mine that I didn't even know existed. I think this is what you are glimpsing, so be pleased not disheartened, as the fact you are aware of this issue means you are ready to raise your game.
 
Steorra thank you very much for your reply, I have read over it a couple of times for it to 'go in!' and it actually makes so much sense!! :p

But from the pictures your whole upper body looks tense: your back and shoulders seem rigid and this will affect the position of your hands, which in turn affect your horse's head carriage.
When you are riding and want to work on this, start by relaxing your jaw. Even gently move your lower jaw if it helps!

Rather than maintaining your upright position (which is v. good by the way) by straightening your back, try engaging your core instead, and relax the big muscles that run on either side of your spine.

^^^ This part especially. I am constantly tensing my jaw, especially at competitions, and know this because I go to eat something afterwards and find it really difficult because I've clamped my jaw for so long. Also, for a while I have been suffering with back pain which also seems to coincide with my tense upper body, I guess? Do you know of any exercises to help relax the muscles either side of my spine? Sorry for all the questions. :o

Unfortunately I haven't been able to afford lessons for a couple of years but am (fingers crossed!) going to Uni in September where I will be able to get lessons on a regular basis so this should also help me (I hope!!)

Once again thank you so much for your help, it has been brilliant. I think I have been concentrating far too much on trying to get pony to go well and have ended up doing the opposite :rolleyes: I will now work on my position. Thanks again xxxx
 
Hi Aliceflapjack,

Hurrah! It's always nice to know I'm making sense.

I have a couple of suggestions about your back that might help. These are quite gentle exercises, they are not supposed to be uncomfortable, so if they make you sore then please stop! Disclaimer: they are for tense muscles not serious back problems.

1. This an exercise for when you're on the ground, that my rowing coach used to get us stretching sore back muscles. Lie on the floor on your stomach with you legs together and your arms resting at your sides. Lift your upper body slightly away from the floor, keeping your hip bones in contact with the ground. Breath deeply in then out. Then lower back down.

If this is hard or not comfy then use your hands to support you - place them flat on the floor level with your shoulders.

Repeat 3 times.

2. This is a 'quick fix' move for when you are riding and feel your back getting tense. Imagine you have a tight bandage around your chest but want to take a deep breath in. Inhale, pushing out with your ribcage (if that makes sense). Your back muscles will tense, as will your abdominals. Let your breath out with a sigh, and feel them relax.

3. Try some core strengthening exercises. Once you have learnt to engage your core muscles when riding, your back won't have to work as hard. I'll make a new thread with some of these as I find them really useful so maybe other people will too.

As for relaxing your jaw, try putting on some music that makes you smile and singing along. Might get some funny looks in the warm up though.

Let me know how you get on (and I'll have my fingers crossed for your exam results too)

Steorra xx
 
Took Jack for a hack today and concentrated on keeping a relaxed jaw & trying to relax in general but it certainly doesn't help when pony walks like a snail :rolleyes:

These things do take time though!

I will start doing the exercises tonight and see how I get on. Thank you again for all your help and will keep you updated. :)
 
from the photos it does look like u turn ur hands in and elbows look quite straight and fixed. this can often be caused by some tension, or often when ur really concious of the horse not going 'on the bit' in a soft outline. i used to do both these things, and still have trouble with the elbows, especially on a more numb sort of horse, or when nervous/tense. i noticed it more when i rode my racehorse and he was really soft and fairly forward, and when i was riding in lessons, i found it easier to ride with well bent elbows etc.

its a hard one to crack as it tends to be a bit in the mind as well as physical. and when you start riding with a more upward, still and soft contact u may find that for a while, until the horse gets used to this new way of asking him to move, he may well poke his nose, but it will get better. all i can suggest, other than using an instructor, is to think about riding forwards and upwards, the horse MUST be uphill and forwards. once this has been established (usually easier to get in trot first, and sometimes - although not technically correct - almost think about oushing on a bit too much at first), lift the hands (think grand prix dressage rider - will feel awful at first) and create a firm, positive contact and ensure this is equal. also concentrate on making sure the hands are still and not rising with you. keeping the forward feeling, start making some really quite quick over exaggerated half halts. also, maybe introduce some counter flexion on a 20m circle in trot. counter flex for about 3 strides (make sure the horse softens before changing), then 3-5 strides of good inside bend - a bit more than would be correct in a test (again soften before any release), then ride straight for about 10 strides, if horse looses concentration take him straight back onto the exercise beforehand. all the time make sure you think upward and forward, through ur rib cage and chin, and keep an even contact, keeping your hand still. sorry for the long post, i tend to babble a bit. these should help over time, but instruction is really needed to keep reminding you of your upper body! also, once this is starting to get better in trot, introduce it in the canter, and the walk, walk tends to be the hardest to get as most horses dont go forwards properly in walk. hope this helps :)
 
will be hard to get in walk first. hacking is a great time to start the horse thinking about what i said in the above post though, as the horse tends to be more forwards anyway with less effort. a good place to do it if possible is up a hill, really push on, getting the horse to really use his back end, but keep a really good firm contact on the front end so that he works over the back instead of rushing. try to think pushing up the hill from behind rather than pulling up the hill with the front legs.
 
Hodgkayl thanks for the exercises I will write them down before I head off to the yard otherwise I'll never remember what to do :o :rolleyes: but will definitely give them a go, thank you :)
 
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