Driving age!

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Not getting into this discussion, but as an aside regarding costs, the cost of your lesson includes the instructors time, vehicle fuel, maintenance, tax etc etc. Now think about how much an hours riding lesson on a horse comparable to your instructors car would be - we would be talking a schoolmaster here, and a BHSII. I haven't had a lesson for years, but I bet it would be more than £18.50.

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A lot more! At the riding school I used to go to around here it costs £33 for a group lesson and £45 for a private lesson (I stopped going when they put the prices up as I just couldn't afford it). Driving lessons round here cost about £22 I think - really not that bad when you consider the cost of fuel and the higher maintenance costs on driving school cars.

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Bloddy hell thats loads! mine ridin lessons cost me £17 for an hour on ma own and my drivin lesson cost me £18.50! so not much difference for me!
 
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Just to add my bit to this thread, my daughter passed her test 3 months after her 17th birthday. She passed her test at 12.30 and was driving off in my car at 1pm. She's an extremely confident (over) driver, and worries the hell out of me. I wish that the age was higher, as I spend every night waiting for a phone call, or a knock at the door telling me that there has been an accident. But, I'd probably still be doing that if she's past when she was 21.

So it's not about age, it's about experience. If you pass at 21 you will still take a couple of years to gain experience, the same as if you pass at 17.


Good luck when you take your test.

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Thankyou! i totally agree if there gonna be mad then they will be whateva age they take their test!
 
Sorry Spiral, I wasn't disagreeing with you. Was just pointing out that you had previous road experience which would help when it came to driving a car.
 
I have to admit I decided not to go out driving as soon as I passed, wanted to give myself a chance to settle. waited 3 days before going out on my own, and first time on own was only a 10 mins drive!
 
I scared the life out of myself when on the motorway for the first time. I had been on duel carriageways alot since passing my test, but about 6 months after my test, i took a wrong turn (my sister said go left, so i went left, she turned round and said 'oh i ment your other left!') and ended up on the M6 at rush hour just past sandbach services! i was petrified.

I was driving yesterday evening (coming back from dover to north wales) when on the M6 a white van driver tried to kill me by pulling out without looking or indicating, nearly took my front end off and in the fast lane of the motorway i had to litteraly stand on my brakes to avoid him thank god my car has good brakes and thank god there was nothing behind me. I over took him about 10 minutes later on a hill and my dad was grumbleing about how at his age he should know better, so i dont think it was a young driver! then about 30mins later a lorry decided to move over a lane whilst i was overtaking it (it shouldnt be moving into the 3rd lane anyway).

I also saw a middle aged woman in a range rover weaving in and out of lanes and undertaking. Oh and the same from a guy in a BMW Z3.
 
You see, this is why I think people should have to have Motorway lessons before they are allowed to take their test, not only to teach them how to drive on the Motorway, but also to teach them how to react when other people do idiotic things around them.
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Also, if everyone was actually taught how to drive on the Motorway, it would probably reduce the idiotic behaviour in the first place.
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I think there are much more sensible ways to improve things without increasing the age.
1) Reduce the number of passengers you are allowed for 1-2 years after the test, perhaps one other person under 25 who is not a direct relation?
2) A 'curfew' that bans newly qualified drivers from the roads say, between midnight and 5am
3) A brethalyser on the ignition, that makes it compulsary to have a zero blood alcohol level for 1-2 years after passing your test
4) A cap on engine size

I passed my test at 17, and then learnt how to actually drive. Most of my lessons were in built up areas, but most of my actual driving was on rural roads. I went on a motorway about 30mins after passing my test, on my own, just a junction or two, because I didn't want it to become a 'big thing'. However, I had had a lot of practice 'joining a motorway' because there were some dual carriageways near where I lived that we practiced on, so it wasn't all that different experience for me. I do think thissort of thing should be compulsary too. In Canada, you have to pass different levels of tests - a theory one first off, and two road tests, each with a minimum period of time spent learning in between
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/gradu/index.html
 
Say what you like about older drivers being as bad if not worse than younger ones, the statistics out today (about wearing seatbelts) were 1 in 10 drivers on the roads in the UK are under 25, yet 1 in 3 drivers involved in accidents are under 25.

Sorry, but you do the maths.
 
Naturally, they may be involved but did they actualy cause the accidents? statistics can be manipulated however you choose (part of my uni course was about manipulating statistics) so i wouldnt believe them at all.
Also how many of those accidents were caused by an older driver doing something stupid and the younger driver not having the experiance to get out of the way? Like last night with me and the white van driver? im under 25 but if the accident had actualy occured i would have become anouther part of the statistics but the accident wouldnt have been my fault.
I'm already part of the statistics, ive been in an accident, i was under 21 at the time, wasnt my fault though was the twit of a white van driver doing 60mph in the middle of a country road round a blind bend!

Yes i can understand that we have a higher accident rate, but i dont think that the accident rate for young driver CAUSEING accidents is as high as they say it is.
 
It amazes me how many people I know up here that will refuse to drive into cities, or on a motorway. Frankly, if you are that underconfident then you shouldn't be driving at all. I'd been driving landrovers on airfields for a year (including towing large trailers) before I turned 17 so was really confident in handling a vehicle. When I did my lessons I had 5 (plus practice with my Mum) and passed first time with no minors. Without a doubt I did well because I was confident and because I could handle the vehicle well my concentration was on the road.
The problem I think is that the test is too easy. I see so many people on the roads who just don't have a clue, and people towing Horse trailers that can't reverse them. The roads in the UK are dangerous places (mant many accidents up this way on the A9 and A96) and I'm all for anything that might make them safer. I also think there should be more places away from public roads where people can actually practice DRIVING!
Cost is an issue, but running a car is really expensive too. I'm lucky I had the opportunity to do lots of driving, a year really (every weekend both days of towing gliders, trailers and ferrying things around), before I was 17 - and in all honesty I think it would make a big difference.
 
I don't think the test is too easy per se, I think the problem is that too much emphasis is put on being correct rather than being confident and capable.

I know the way I was taught to drive wasn't particularly realistic for how I actually drive now - and its not that I am unsafe now, but simply that its not always practical to drive like you would in a test. For example, I never had to manoevre or park between vehicles when I was learning - parallel parking you only have to park behind a car about 6 feet behind it. They don't teach you any practical evasion techniques or the best way to safely overtake someone or anything. Might seem obvious, but I know I would have liked to do some "real" driving before I was in a car by myself.

I think the problem is that it is very easy to fail a test on a technicality [depending how lenient your examiner is], or pass if you're not a confident driver but just get everything right - I think the test should be more concentrated on how capable you are of dealing with everyday driving incidents.
 
I read a similar article in the Times, and I disagree with most of it! I don't think raising the age will make any difference at all - as has been said previously its lack of experience, not the age thats the problem IMO. I also agree with the theory that you learn to drive properly after you've passed your test. I think its the stupid mistakes that you make that teaches you never to do it again. I suppose that doesn't help the people that make stupid mistakes and ending up killing someone
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. I never drove in the dark in my lessons, so doing so by myself was scary! But thats when common sense has a place (like not driving in just side lights
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). I've been driving for 5 years and only in the last year have I plucked up the courage to drive on a motorway and into a busy city (Edinburgh = nightmare for drivers
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). Most of the drivers I see doing stupid things are older men in posh cars who think they're far better than the law and other drivers.

Kinda lost my train of thought... but basically I think it should be left as it is. Drivers will be stupid if they're 17 or 21. But the fact it took me 3 attempts to pass has some bearing on that
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Edinburgh isnt that bad for drivers, ive done it several times, ok it gets a bit hairy at festival time but otherwise ive never had a problem with driving in edinburgh.
Driving in London however is a whole different ball game, ive done it once and never ever again!
the motorways in scotland are realy quite nice, i like them!
 
I would never ever drive in London lol. Its not even the other cars - its the hundreds of signs and restrictions
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. I had to drive in Edinburgh every day during the festival last year... it certainly taught me to be a patient driver (and to read signs properly before pulling into no entry/bus only/dead end streets
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). I've yet to hit anyone though, unless you count pulling into a parking space and hitting the parked car in front...when the driver was still sitting in it *cringes*. I do now have a complex when it comes to parking!
 
As a mother of a turning 16yo I am not in favour of this at all. Why can't the engine size be limited the way the do with motorbikes, ie no one under the age of 20 can drive over a 1200/1300. Seems that most of these accidents are caused by speed. I also dont see why everyone needs to be tarred with the same brush, I know plenty of teenagers who are far more sensible then people in their 30's/40's. If the government really want to keep us safe perhaps they will ban us from venturing out of our houses. For anyone who has to get to work in a rural area this will be a complete nightmare. And who are the people using their mobile phones?? The ones are see are far from teenagers, the drink drivers I know are twice the age of the people the government are targeting. I also heard that they were going to put a curfew on teenagers driving at night, so what would have happened in the winter?? You leave work at 5pm but cant drive because it is dark! I hate the way this country is going, & if my daughter has any sense she wont look at the UK as a long term future.
 
magic i totaly agree, im currently at uni and most of my course are looking at jobs outside of the UK, i think we are going to find that alot of uni leavers are going to move abroad where taxes are cheaper. I personaly have belgian citazenship and a permenant residents vias for new zealand, i also have a possibility of getting one (well thier equivalent) for america without too much fuss. So i could legaly work in those countries or anywhere within the EU and not have to pay british taxes.
 
I think the problem with the current system is that it's all too easy for people to have say 30 hours of lessons, pass their test, buy a car and end up on the road with very little experience. Driving instructors just teach people how to pass their test not how to drive. For example my friend's driving instructor didn't ever discuss the use of lights with her and as a result she drove her new car over 100 miles in the pitch black with only the side lights on and was very lucky not to have an accident.

I drove pretty much every day for 9 months with my parents (local journeys, long journeys to visit grandparents etc) and then had a couple of lessons to learn the exam technique. I passed with 1 minor and the examiner said it was obvious how much more experience I had than the average candidate. Unfortunately many parents don't feel comfortable to teach their children (and I can't say I blame them!) so they end up doing the usual block of driving lessonswhich cost a fortune and don't teach you the driving skills you need.
 
Well the problem is that it is not cheap for parents to teach their kids either. My mum looked into the price of insuring me on her car, and it was about £400 or something. Then of course you've got to add the price of fuel for driving around for hours and hours on end, and it takes a lot of time. Altogether its just more convenient for most people to take normal lessons.

I do agree with you though - my instructor never talked to me about lights or windscreen wipers or anything - I had to work it all out by myself.
 
Because even a 1000 engine can still do, say 90mph, and it can certainly still do 60 in a 30. The size of the engine you can drive is largely dependant on what you can afford to buy and what you can afford to insure, and I don't think speed is the issue - yes speed kills, but so does inexperience and immaturity.

I think the insurance companies have the last say on who is the most risky of drivers. The higher the risk of somebody having an accident, the higher the cost of insurance is. That's fact, calculated by a million different factors by the experts in assessing risk.

17 year olds with less than a year's experience are the most likely to have an accident - therefore they are expensive to insure.

I'm sure those "dangerous 30 year olds" that people on here are on about are, at a guess, in a job that reflects their attitude towards driving, maybe have points or not too good NCD and that would be reflected in their insurance cost. making those people safer drivers is a different discussion, its new drivers' accident rate that we can do something about.

Promote Pass Plus and similar schemes, make people have a mimimum of X hours driving experience in day/night/heavy traffic/country lanes/torrential rain etc before they can sit their tests, let's do whatever we can to make new drivers safe and insurance prices will come down in reflection.

As others have said, driving isn't a right. Yes its increasingly necessary to have transport, especially if you live in the countryside, but parents have been driving their under 17's around for 17 years, 6 months longer isn't going to be the end of the world. I would be shocked to the core if any parent on here said they would rather their son/daughter drove by themselves earlier than waited another few months and were safer.

At the end of the day that's all any of us want, ourselves, our friends & our children to be safe. If it costs a bit more or takes a bit longer then tough, I'd far rather we were all inconvenienced slightly then dead or disabled as a result of a car crash that could have been prevented with a bit more experience.
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I didn't do pass plus, as it didn't seem worth it. Looking at the syllabus, I covered all of that with my parents and other older more experienced drivers (when lift sharing) after I passed my test, other than really rural roads, which I never had to use until recently. I don't see what difference 6 months will make to how safe someone is to drive. People who are naturally reckless will do something stupid regardless of how much experience they have.

The other issue is that information never really sticks until you absolutely have to use it. When I started going out with my OH I had no idea how to drive on single track roads. I don't remember ever going on a single track road with a driving instructor or my parents, and can't actually think of any within a reasonable radius of where I was living at the time. Therefore I got my OH (who has driven on roads without white lines for ages as part of his job) to sit with me and teach me how to drive on single track roads with narrow bends. He showed my how to use shadows (on sunny days) and to dip my headlights approaching a bend to be aware of an oncoming car before I can actually see the car, and that if you're at a junction where you can't see very much on a 60 mph road (and also on quiet lanes) you should turn off aircon and radio and open windows and listen for traffic - anything that moves silently won't be coming towards you at 60mph!
 
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