DRIVING ME MAD!!! ***HELP***

KJJ

KJJ

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OK so....

We have 2 dogs, Finn an almost 5months old Rhodesian Ridgeback, and Tinker a 15month old Lurcher (collie x whippet)

Finn is an angel and is house trained and goes over night without and accident or anything...

...

Tinker on the otherhand is NOT an angel
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and has taken to pooping and peeing overnight!!
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... Tinker used to have run of the kitchen whilst Finn was in the dog crate... and when the 'accidents' happened we decided to put Tinker in his basket in the puppy play pen (attached to the crate) in the hope that he wouldn't want to 'mess' near his bed.. which worked for about a week and then he started the 'mess' again, soooo as Finn is now getting a big boy we decided to swap them over, so Tinker goes in the crate and Finn in the play pen....

Finn as usual is a clean boy and goes through the night.. Tinker has been clean for over a week.. until lastnight
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... he has pooped in the cage and p*ssed all over FINN and his bed and his water!!! (Basically cocked his leg out of teh cage
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)

I am seething!!!
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f**king dog!!
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So what the hell do I do?

The dogs go to bed around 10pm... and then are let out at 6am.... Tinker seems to be worse when he is let out during these hours...

They are fed no later than 7.30pm and have access to thr garden til they go to bed - at which point I shut them outside for 5mins so they actually go toilet!!

I am at my wits end and if it continues Tinks will be sleeping outside!!!
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What do I do?
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Any suggestions? Ideas?
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Assuming that Tinker was clean in the house before Finn arrived, it could be a territorial thing, or just plain jealousy. Do you give him as much attention as you give Finn? Does he get as much attention as he did before Finn arrived? It might be worth taking a urine sample to the vet if you think he may have an infection, although I suspect it is more behavioural. When you put the dogs outside, always go with them and make sure they both perform. It may be easier to do one at a time. Take tinker right back to basics, try and teach him a command for going to the loo so he knows what you expect of him. Make sure he has water available at night, sometimes if water is restricted the urine can become very concentrated and irritate the bladder.
 
You should let poor Tinky Winky sleeps in your bed
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I would say that he is a bad boy, I would also suggest that you try and confine them to the house a little more and then make the last toilet break very specific ie that garden = whoopsie and tiddles time!

Also I would be inclined to go out with him and when he does and whoopsie or tiddle that he gets praised with a treat.

I think I remember you saying that you feed them ad lib biscuits? Not sure I cant remember really but if you do he might be troughing all the time and therefore not regulating himself?!

Ill have a think throughout the day too to see if I can come up with any other pearls of wisdom
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Hb
 
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that Tinker was clean in the house before Finn arrived, it could be a territorial thing, or just plain jealousy.

[/ QUOTE ]Yup he was 99.9% clean!!
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Do you give him as much attention as you give Finn? Does he get as much attention as he did before Finn arrived?

[/ QUOTE ]Yup he actually gets more than he ever did... I'm always on the floor playing with both of them... fussing both of them, he also gets a heck of alot more attention off OH, as we don't want him to feel left out!
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It might be worth taking a urine sample to the vet if you think he may have an infection, although I suspect it is more behavioural.

[/ QUOTE ]I doubt it's an infection as he doesn't do it every night
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When you put the dogs outside, always go with them and make sure they both perform. It may be easier to do one at a time.

[/ QUOTE ]I stand at the back door and wait for them to go toilet
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Take tinker right back to basics, try and teach him a command for going to the loo so he knows what you expect of him. Make sure he has water available at night, sometimes if water is restricted the urine can become very concentrated and irritate the bladder.

[/ QUOTE ]They both have a big bowl of fresh water overnight... so always available but they never seem to drink any.

I guess re-training is the answer
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You should let poor Tinky Winky sleeps in your bed
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[/ QUOTE ]NO chance buster!!! LOL!!
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I would say that he is a bad boy, I would also suggest that you try and confine them to the house a little more and then make the last toilet break very specific ie that garden = whoopsie and tiddles time!

[/ QUOTE ]Well although they have access tothe garden they tend to spend their time in the front room with us, playing and chewing bones!!!
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Also I would be inclined to go out with him and when he does and whoopsie or tiddle that he gets praised with a treat.

[/ QUOTE ]I do stand at the door and praise them when they 'perform the necessary action'! LOL!! Maybe treating aswell is the way to go!!

It's weird - Tinks very rarely when walked goes to 'poop' whilst out - he'll come home and go in the garden?!
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I think I remember you saying that you feed them ad lib biscuits? Not sure I cant remember really but if you do he might be troughing all the time and therefore not regulating himself?!

[/ QUOTE ]I stopped giving Tinks biscuits overnight the second the 'accidents' started.. so he doesn't have anything to eat since 7.30pm
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Ill have a think throughout the day too to see if I can come up with any other pearls of wisdom
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Hb

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks chick
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If i stand at the back door as opposed to going out for a wander round the garden pup tends to have a 'quick' wee and wants to rush back in. I go on the 2 wee rule, he has to do 2 before he goes back in as his first is often a token gesture!
 
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If i stand at the back door as opposed to going out for a wander round the garden pup tends to have a 'quick' wee and wants to rush back in. I go on the 2 wee rule, he has to do 2 before he goes back in as his first is often a token gesture!

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah I guess... they both pee for a LONG time!! LOL!!...

Will start braving the rain and go out with them me thinks!!

Blo*dy dog!!
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Is tinker castrated?it could be a scent marking thing.Very naughty to pee on finn poor lad.I have a 7month old lurcher and although he wont pee in his bed he will quite happily pee n poo where the fancy takes him sometimes he has definately been harder to toilet train than my gsds or my collie x who is only 8month old.He has started to calm down a bit since he was neutered though?X
 
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Is tinker castrated?it could be a scent marking thing.Very naughty to pee on finn poor lad.I have a 7month old lurcher and although he wont pee in his bed he will quite happily pee n poo where the fancy takes him sometimes he has definately been harder to toilet train than my gsds or my collie x who is only 8month old.He has started to calm down a bit since he was neutered though?X

[/ QUOTE ]No he isn't, OH doesn't want him done...

Do they scent mark by pooing? I thought it was the weeing that was this?!?

Poor ol' Finny - It only got him a bit but his bed was covered as was his fed/water bowl!!
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Just the urine part is normally down to hormones.But know it will certainly help.Sounds to me like the young one has maybe upset tinkers regime slightly.Like i say im still having problems with flynn (lurcher) he does his business outside 90% of the time.At the minute he is still in his cage on a night as he will toilet in house if not.Another thing i do is obviously clean the area thoroughly where he has done his business and use a spray called keep it clean over the top to make sure all scent of the accident has gone.Im just going back to basics with flynn as like I say ive had no problems with my other dogs but ive never had a lurcher before think he is a bit slow on the uptake?? bless him hes dead cute and i hate telling him off but it is very annoying.Especially for you with him being a clean dog beforehand.Another thing to try is a dap diffuser,plugs into main socket in your home maybe living room/dining room wherever they sleep and it releases pheromones into the air that give the impression of an alpha being present this sometimes helps with nerves or anxieties might be worth a try.They last about a month and you can get them from your vet.How long have you had finn? and has the problem just started recently? x
 
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Just the urine part is normally down to hormones.But know it will certainly help.Sounds to me like the young one has maybe upset tinkers regime slightly.Like i say im still having problems with flynn (lurcher) he does his business outside 90% of the time.At the minute he is still in his cage on a night as he will toilet in house if not.Another thing i do is obviously clean the area thoroughly where he has done his business and use a spray called keep it clean over the top to make sure all scent of the accident has gone.Im just going back to basics with flynn as like I say ive had no problems with my other dogs but ive never had a lurcher before think he is a bit slow on the uptake?? bless him hes dead cute and i hate telling him off but it is very annoying.Especially for you with him being a clean dog beforehand.Another thing to try is a dap diffuser,plugs into main socket in your home maybe living room/dining room wherever they sleep and it releases pheromones into the air that give the impression of an alpha being present this sometimes helps with nerves or anxieties might be worth a try.They last about a month and you can get them from your vet.How long have you had finn? and has the problem just started recently? x

[/ QUOTE ]We have had Finn since October the 14th (To be exact!!
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) The problem has started over the past 6-8 weeks.... We have had to put TInker back in the cage but he still 'messes' in theri (like lastnight - which incidently was the first time he's done it in the cage)

I do scrub where he has 'accidents' and put a 'Get off' spray which honks of citronella all around, the area and surroundings...

Grrrrrrr - I just doin't know what to do... perhaps Tinkers nose is out of joint however if he doesn't behave it'll be further out of joint cos hell end up sleeping outside!!
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Does sound to me like now finn is coming of age your lurchers nose has been put out of joint.Tinker will have been top dog you see until little finn came along and although theyve been fine together he is now starting to grow up and this will worry Tinker.I would definately try the dap diffuser sounds like a pack situation that you are having.Obviously aggression hasnt been a probelm but instead Tinker is worrying about his position in the pack and this is his way of expressing this.I am no behaviourist but have worked in a vets as a nurse for quite a while and our head nurse has ran obedience classes for 20 years and have picked up some useful tips on behaviour from her.It might be worth giving a behaviourist a call for some advice.It could just be a simple change that makes all the differencr.Keep me updated on their progress though as quite interested to hear how you get on.Wish I could be of more help but good luck! x
 
Had a thought - pee contains amonia, do you use special stuff as normal products contain amonia and therefore say YAY pee here again.

Zoflora works well as that is pretty pungent.

Hb
 
OK may give that a try - depends how much it costs!! LOL!!

He'd been good when I went home at lunchtime and hadn't messed so LOTS of praise for him!!

If it was scenting/marking thing I would have thought he'd do it all the time?!

He is still definately the 'boss' of the two.. even if Finn does just sit on him to shut him up!!
 
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Had a thought - pee contains amonia, do you use special stuff as normal products contain amonia and therefore say YAY pee here again.

Zoflora works well as that is pretty pungent.

Hb

[/ QUOTE ]The stuff I use I bought from the petshop -it's supposed to STOP the scent getting through... One is called GET OFF to wash the whole place down and the other is for when they have wee'd to cover the scent immediately?!?
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If Tinker is definitely the boss, it is important that you treat him as such. Little things, like feeding him before you feed Finn, letting him go through a door before Finn (although after you!). If they have a tugging game, don't let either of them keep the toy afterwards, and definitely not Finn. Finn is going to be a significantly larger and heavier dog, he has to learn his place now while he is small enough to be told.
 
[ QUOTE ]
If Tinker is definitely the boss, it is important that you treat him as such. Little things, like feeding him before you feed Finn, letting him go through a door before Finn (although after you!). If they have a tugging game, don't let either of them keep the toy afterwards, and definitely not Finn. Finn is going to be a significantly larger and heavier dog, he has to learn his place now while he is small enough to be told.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh but Soots he is... his feed is put down first, he is treated first, fussed first - UNLESS he is is naughty!!

He doesn't walk through doors before Finn.. as Finn is boisterous and bowls through them... he tries to go before us - but that is a definate no no...

Tnks always wins at Tug.... and I take the toy off them and let them start again...

Tinks will 'warn' Finn that a toy is his... and if all else fails... he will hump Finn to show him who is boss!!!
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Tis so difficult as Tinker is actually the biggest wimp ever... raise a voice and he cowers (He was a rescue dog - so stems from previous life
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) any loud noise and he's under the table...

Thing is also Tinker is a shredder - so his bed consists of towels which he shreds - obv this is not what we want him to do?! So if caught he is told off?!? Arrrgggghhh!!!
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You are a patient person, he sounds like a real handful. I would ask a trainer or behaviourist to come to your house and assess the situation. It is such a lovely thing to take on a rescue dog, but they can come with so many problems. We have had several, and only a couple have turned into really excellent pets. It is so much easier to have them from a puppy. It really does sound as if Tinker is having problems accepting Finn now he is getting bigger. Castrating one of them might help - Tinker seems the prime candidate, he is older and is obviously quite stressed. If you are not keeping a male domestic animal for breeding purposes, it is IMHO much kinder to the animal to castrate them. Dogs generally make much nicer pets once the nuts are off!
 
I might also be tempted to assert yourself as the Alpha Dog of the house.
This will invlove you and OH getting fed before the dogs, when you come in ingoring them both until they lie down and then calling them over when you are ready. I would want to go through the door before the dog too. Jan Fennel has got a book out which tells you how to do this - I have a copy if you want it sending down. I dont do all the things she says but some of them help.
I also if modom has peed the floor she misses out on brekkie!

Hb
 
[ QUOTE ]
You are a patient person, he sounds like a real handful. I would ask a trainer or behaviourist to come to your house and assess the situation. It is such a lovely thing to take on a rescue dog, but they can come with so many problems. We have had several, and only a couple have turned into really excellent pets. It is so much easier to have them from a puppy. It really does sound as if Tinker is having problems accepting Finn now he is getting bigger. Castrating one of them might help - Tinker seems the prime candidate, he is older and is obviously quite stressed. If you are not keeping a male domestic animal for breeding purposes, it is IMHO much kinder to the animal to castrate them. Dogs generally make much nicer pets once the nuts are off!

[/ QUOTE ]Tinks is the sweetest of chaps... and it does upset me when he is naughty
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.... It's obviously an attention thing - but how can he want attention overnight?! No-one is around for goodness sake...

I'm afraid to say I'm am starting to loose my patience with him... not physically - goodness no - but emotionally - he winds me up now for no reason.... however I still give him his hugs and kisses and playtime etc...

The chredding/chewing was something he did before Finn arrived... not every night but certainly more often than not!!

Tinks is OH's hunting dog - he loves it - dosn't give a monkies about the guns etc... I've suggested to OH that he take Tinks out more on his own... and leave Finn with me... that way tinks has his 'special' time .. but I dunno... perhaps I'm humanising him too much?!
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OH doesn't want Tinks done... he thinks he'll change and become lethargic and useless at hunting!! LOL!! Not quite as extreme but they aren't 'aggressively' a problem?!

Oh I dunno... poor Tinks I feel sorry for him and wish he could tell us what was up!! He used to be trusted to sleep on the futon in the kitchen - maybe this is why he 'acts up' at night? - trouble is I'm NOT having him mess around the kitchen just to giv ehim freedom and access to the futon...
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[ QUOTE ]
I might also be tempted to assert yourself as the Alpha Dog of the house.
This will invlove you and OH getting fed before the dogs, when you come in ingoring them both until they lie down and then calling them over when you are ready.

[/ QUOTE ]The dogs are always fed AFTER us.. I make a point of it - even if they do sit and watch as I prepare the families dinner with sad eyes!! TOUGH - WE eat first!!
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[ QUOTE ]
I would want to go through the door before the dog too. Jan Fennel has got a book out which tells you how to do this - I have a copy if you want it sending down. I dont do all the things she says but some of them help.
I also if modom has peed the floor she misses out on brekkie!

Hb

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks chick... I have just got the "It's me or the Dog" book so will have a lookie in that again... btu will defo think about borrowing yours if that has nothing and you don't mind!!!

I have done the missing brekkie trick and he doesn't care!! He'd go days without eating
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You could get Tinks chemicall castrated by a hormone injection to see if that helps. This lasts up to 6 months and will let you see if castrating will work. It is reversable once it has worn off.

Our 9.5 year old lurcher was castrated at 5 years old in order to solve dominance issues. He is certainly not fat or lethargic and has just as a strong a hunting instinct.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You could get Tinks chemicall castrated by a hormone injection to see if that helps. This lasts up to 6 months and will let you see if castrating will work. It is reversable once it has worn off.

[/ QUOTE ]Ohh haven't heard of that may look it up on the web!!
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Our 9.5 year old lurcher was castrated at 5 years old in order to solve dominance issues. He is certainly not fat or lethargic and has just as a strong a hunting instinct.

[/ QUOTE ]I shall tell him that!! LOL!!
 
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Neutering a dog does not make them lethargic! It is always men that are funny about castrating dogs...

[/ QUOTE ]LOL - you tell him Soots!!

I'm interested in this injection that has just been mentioned!! - Will speak more about it with OH if Tinks behaviour continues!!!
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Neutering a dog does not make them lethargic! It is always men that are funny about castrating dogs...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bye bye fluffy plums

Hb

Big hugs Kim - sorry I have come up with anything that you havent tried
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Bye bye fluffy plums

Hb

[/ QUOTE ]LMAO!!! Drastic!!!
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Big hugs Kim - sorry I have come up with anything that you havent tried
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[/ QUOTE ]No worries hun - I'm at my wits end.. he's such a cutie but this has to stop!!
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this is almost certainly happening because your Ridgeback is reaching sexual maturity ( yes it does happen this early
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) Tinker is reinforcing his position in the pack by marking 'his' territory ....including Finns bowl/bed and personal space because he is becoming worried that his place will be usurped - it may well get worse unfortunately because Ridgebacks are usually quite a dominant breed and Finn will pretty soon begin to make sure that Tinker knows that the regime has changed !. You could very well find yourself with two males spraying until the pack order has finally been established
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- and Finn will be top dog in the end


Personally I would have your Lurcher neutered - this will take the compulsion to jockey for position away and make things a whole lot more peaceful in the months to come
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[ QUOTE ]
this is almost certainly happening because your Ridgeback is reaching sexual maturity ( yes it does happen this early
shocked.gif
) Tinker is reinforcing his position in the pack by marking 'his' territory ....including Finns bowl/bed and personal space because he is becoming worried that his place will be usurped - it may well get worse unfortunately because Ridgebacks are usually quite a dominant breed and Finn will pretty soon begin to make sure that Tinker knows that the regime has changed !. You could very well find yourself with two males spraying until the pack order has finally been established
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- and Finn will be top dog in the end


Personally I would have your Lurcher neutered - this will take the compulsion to jockey for position away and make things a whole lot more peaceful in the months to come
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[/ QUOTE ]Tinker had nowhere else TOO pee, he is caged at night due to the 'mess' so could only pee OUT of the cage anyhow...

OK so it may be marking - however why poo?

Finn knows he is definately BOTTOM dog and isn't ATM interested in being top dog... he's not dominant - yes they play but tinker always comes off best!!
 
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