Driving novice seeking advice and information please

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Butterbear

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I have a small pony whom I am planning to use for ride and drive. She is 12hh and in order to make sure she can be kept in work all year and because I want her to be very versatile. We have a long way to go before I can start any serious work, she is still timid and I want to bring her on gently but properly.
I did a very small amount of driving in my teens with a friend's horse's companion pony and have been out with someone else doing the driving and me as a passenger, but no longer know anyone who drives.
I want to do things right for this girly but need some book recommendations and advice on the types of harness/cart/bridles/bits as well as training information etc.

Any pointers gratefully received :)
 
A good place to start is the British Driving Society. There are some informative if older books about - have a trawl on Amazon and see what appeals. If you can long rein that's a good starting point and you can work up to doing it in harness but you do need someone to show you how to fit it correctly. I'd also suggest some lessons and sending her away to be started. I'm not bring rude but the potential for things to go horribly wrong is always there. I'd also suggest if she's timid she may not make a good driving pony. Not sure if it's just her age/experience at the moment but they need to be bold but as near to bombproof as they can be, and absolutely trustworthy in traffic and with anything spooky. I've started ponies in harness but then moved them on to alternative pursuits as they just haven't had the right brain for whatever reason.
 
I agree with Nudibranch, timid ponies can be hard to get to a point where they are safe, established drivers.

I went to a Bennington day and can highly recommend it as a very basic starting point.

Book wise anything by Sally Walrond is good. The books are dated but the information is still good.

Harness, Zilco every time. The Tedex is the cheapest and perfectly adequate to get you going. Any of the good driving suppliers will talk you through how to measure and make sure you get the right size. You will need someone to fit it for you though. The first time I tried to harness up there were 3 supposedly intelligent adults, a book, a Youtube video and I was still nearly reduced to tears!

The carriage depends on what your ultimate aim is. I bought a beautiful 2 wheel Rally carriage but it was too small and no good for what I want to do. Luckily it was incredibly cheap and I doubled my money when I sold it. I've got a 4 wheeler with pneumatic wheels and I love it! Its good enough to do indoor trials and club classes at outdoor, it gives a lovely ride on a surface or road and will handle muddy rutted tracks with no issues.

I would join all the driving facebook groups and see if theres anyone near by who will let you help out with theirs. I always welcome people with open arms. I feel about driving the way Jehovahs witnesses do about religion and am forever spreading the word and trying to convert people. Driving people are the friendliest bunch of people you will ever meet. I bet there will be someone local to you.

Then you need a good instructor. They might not need to come out every time, but they do need to assess the pony for you and set you off on the right path. When I bought Leo I had this vague idea that I would harness up and swan off down the road to the pub with him. It was fairly eye opening when I realised that I didnt have a clue what I was doing and actually its a fairly skillful thing to do and you cannot just make it up as you go along!

I'd never driven at all before July but I am blessed with this amazing pony who has taught me so much in such a short space of time! And just because, heres me and my boy practising obstacles ready to do some indoor trials.

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Hi!
Welcome to the two brains/too many wheels club!
There’s a fine line between timid and too nervy. My youngest sec A has that welsh ‘edge’ to him that his older brother doesn’t. Big Bro will be the easy one to break and train, not much phases him and when it does he doesn’t react in an OTT manner, but little bro is a bit of a drama queen, forgets what a rug is from one day to the next and lives a little more on his nerves. I can not wait to drive him! He’ll be the trickier one by far but the extra edge that he has *should* stand him in good stead in the show ring- he’s far flashier than big bro and it’s partly due to his character. He’s also the one that will snuggle in for cuddles and huffs if you just pop in to skip out and don’t give him a proper fuss :D
So if your mare is a trusting type and generally sensible, then see how she reacts to harness and go from there.
I’m with LeoWalker on Zilco, I love mine but also have tedex and Zilco Webz for exercise. They’re handy as they go straight in the wash :D
My carriages are Benningtons, I’m on my third and fourth ones and love them, but am about to collect a bell crown 2 wheeler and a showing vehicle for the Big Brother sec a for breaking him in and local Private Driving classes.

But the one thing that I would say, and as a definite, and that’s to get in touch with a local coach, the BDS and British Carriagedriving have lists of people in each area and your local clubs usually have Facebook pages so they’re good places to find help as well. Good luck!
 
Check out any driving clubs in your area, as many clubs run training, and you may well be able to go along and learn a little from watching lessons, and then have a chat with the trainer about taking your pony along to be assessed as a potential driver. The club local to me always welcomes spectators who wish to learn, and accepts horses for groundwork with a view to driving in clinics, as well as established driving ponies.

You can see a list of clubs and rough areas here - do check areas neighbouring yours also though - I've just noticed our club isn't in the section I'd say it's in! I shall check that.

http://www.britishcarriagedriving.co.uk/contacts/regions.htm
 
Hi all thank you so much for your thoughtful replies, I have been unexpectedly away from all internet connections since posting, sorry!

I am in Somerset, near to Glastonbury.

She is timid in that she was until a few months ago virtually untouched, but is coming round well since being in a routine on a busy farmyard for the last few weeks. She looks at stuff because she has never seen it but take things in her stride and always asks me for reassurance if she is unsure but hasn't tried to run off no has she had any dramatic responses to anything as yet. But i will most definitely bear in mind what you have all said about treading carefully if she proves to be too nervy - I hope not she is a really sturdy Dartmoor so fingers crossed she just needs more exposure to life in the real world.

Isn't zilco harness all webbing? I thought leather would be safer because it breaks? Although I like the idea of tack cleaning in the washing machine :-)

I have done lots of long lining miles over the years so as soon as she is ready this was the first step I was fairly sure of and have some nice off road and quiet lanes to practice on.

I will look into British carriage driving and Sally Walrond, I have a couple of those thin picture boos by her but will try to find more to add to my library.

Ideally I want to pootle about the lanes, perhaps do the school run a few times a week, possibly compete but would be happy to just keep her fit and in work when children can't ride and so I can get some time with her as I really like her but am 2 stone too heavy at best to ever ride her! Am happy to see how she likes things and play it by ear.

I am more than happy to send her to someone to do the breaking part due to my inexperience but would need to find someone good as local as possible to me for when she is ready.

Thanks again everyone, I will no doubt be back with more questions as our time together progresses.
 
OP - you can take an ordinary riding bridle and any old saddle with the stirurps up, a couple of lengths of ropes to the bit, and off you go long-reining over dale and hill. This will be the best possible preparation for your nervous pony, and for you as a novice driver. Great exercise too, especially the walk-trot-walk transitions.
 
Butterbear said:
I have a small pony whom I am planning to use for ride and drive. She is 12hh and in order to make sure she can be kept in work all year and because I want her to be very versatile. We have a long way to go before I can start any serious work, she is still timid and I want to bring her on gently but properly.
I did a very small amount of driving in my teens with a friend's horse's companion pony and have been out with someone else doing the driving and me as a passenger, but no longer know anyone who drives.
I want to do things right for this girly but need some book recommendations and advice on the types of harness/cart/bridles/bits as well as training information etc.

Any pointers gratefully received :)
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We started my girl in just a cheap harness of ebay costing £ 69 - we had to get a Shetland ones as she is 12hh like yours and the pony one was too big. We started just with fitting it to her and getting her to stand with all the harness on till she was comfortable.

She had already been long reined so new the ropes, she was very cautious of not being able to see out sideways and struggled a bit turning without seeing where she went first, but with practice on the yard then school we gradually worked on 20m circles following on to banking on both reins, then gradually weaving in the school between cones. Then I had a course to do with lots of bending and turning, then we introduced a tyre to pull and did this then in the field too. Then out on the roads in traffic me walking behind her with trainer beside although she firstly took her on roads and let me do the way back in the end till I did whole thing.


We then bought a cheap Robinson cart to break her into and all was going well in the school - fields and road- also teaching me how to jump off quick in emergency and getting on while she was walking along and holding the pony when spooky things cropped upfor 3 years till the weak part of the carriage gave way on the road and cart folded in on us. (pony fine me fine but few grazes) I then bought a Bennington, at the end of last year very classy and we will start driving again ready for a sponsored drive, as my trainer won't drive in the winter when wet - muddy and icy so driving stopped, specially when pony developed IBD.
So here is to our first sponsored drive -


After my cheap harness wore out I bought another one for home driving but bought a bespoke Zilco one from Australia 3 years ago specially for my girl which cost around £ 600 including shipping.

Find yourself a trainer who can follow you on this amazing journey step by step, Don't rush the pony or try do too much to soon, like the owner of (D) who is a welsh section B and was competed while still 3.3 years old, and found out they wrecked him - so now the perfect driving pony is no longer driving. Don't also try on your own like a livery did, with no trainer and pony bolted down the road at the sound of a chainsaw dragging cart.

So to sum up
1 Find a trainer or friend who drives
2 get a cheap webbing harness to break him or her in
3. lots of practice with fitting the harness and tacking up
4 lots of practice hours with your trainer.
5 Have knowledge of what you need to carry in the cart like - spare under collar- rope-hoof pick- knife- first aid etc.
6 join facebook driving groups
7 check out your insurance covers you and your pony driving in public places and road

I have been driving now since 2013 and love going out even though my back hurts I need to get a support for the charity drive.

Have fun..............
 
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Butterbear said:
Hi all thank you so much for your thoughtful replies, I have been unexpectedly away from all internet connections since posting, sorry!

I am in Somerset, near to Glastonbury.

She is timid in that she was until a few months ago virtually untouched, but is coming round well since being in a routine on a busy farmyard for the last few weeks. She looks at stuff because she has never seen it but take things in her stride and always asks me for reassurance if she is unsure but hasn't tried to run off no has she had any dramatic responses to anything as yet. But i will most definitely bear in mind what you have all said about treading carefully if she proves to be too nervy - I hope not she is a really sturdy Dartmoor so fingers crossed she just needs more exposure to life in the real world.

Isn't zilco harness all webbing? I thought leather would be safer because it breaks? Although I like the idea of tack cleaning in the washing machine :-)

I have done lots of long lining miles over the years so as soon as she is ready this was the first step I was fairly sure of and have some nice off road and quiet lanes to practice on.

I will look into British carriage driving and Sally Walrond, I have a couple of those thin picture boos by her but will try to find more to add to my library.

Ideally I want to pootle about the lanes, perhaps do the school run a few times a week, possibly compete but would be happy to just keep her fit and in work when children can't ride and so I can get some time with her as I really like her but am 2 stone too heavy at best to ever ride her! Am happy to see how she likes things and play it by ear.

I am more than happy to send her to someone to do the breaking part due to my inexperience but would need to find someone good as local as possible to me for when she is ready.

Thanks again everyone, I will no doubt be back with more questions as our time together progresses.
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Zilco is the best really but very expensive and unless your VERY VERY lucky to find a small one for a 12hh you will have to buy from Australia and I know Sally Edwards https://www.facebook.com/sally.edwards.9406417
who ordered mine for me as she competes driving and could get you one, but a cheap on is best first in case the pony does not take to it.
 
At what age can I be introducing a pony to harness, I also have a rising 2 yr old who is bolder than brass, but thought I'd have to wait a year at least? Photos would be most welcome, it's great to see all the horses and ponies that people have, Leo Walker's lovely cob is just stonking, if Bramble can be like that I'll be chuffed to bits :-)

I did have a look online last night at harness and got quite confused by the types, such as quick hitch etc- I need to do lots more research! I looked at the Libby's basic harness as a possible starting point but have no idea if this would be adequate, also the sizing meant nothing to me as i have no idea what the parts are. Equally I'm happy to start in an ordinary bridle for long lining etc and hope to find someone near to me to advise on fit of the harness. I'm happy to shell out for the Zilco if it is going to be the best fit as the last thing I want for her is to be uncomfortable and then unwilling.

I also don't really know the benefits of the types of cart, I read somewhere that pneumatic tyres are harder to pull than cartwheels? The pneumatic seem easier for maintenance though?

Thanks again all, you're all so helpful.
 
A 2yo can be trained to drive - but it shouldn't be 'worked'. That means a light cart, on the flat, or as near as. Unless you live on a mountain, or your only vehicle is a farm cart, you're usually fine to start them young, but remember they get REALLY tired just from 10 minutes of thinking. Keep it short and interesting.

Big wheels run better over rough ground than small ones, but on modern vehicles pneumatic or not doesn't make much difference - but if it has air in it, it can puncture! Avoid car wheels for a small pony.
Start with a two wheel vehicle - you can get into trouble with a four wheeler and a novice horse.

Get someone experienced to help you get started, and to help choose vehicle and harness. Correct adjustment when you first put-to is essential, as is basic safety. When it goes wrong, it goes badly wrong, and very very quickly!
 
ILuvCowparsely said:
Zilco is the best really but very expensive and unless your VERY VERY lucky to find a small one for a 12hh you will have to buy from Australia and I know Sally Edwards https://www.facebook.com/sally.edwards.9406417
who ordered mine for me as she competes driving and could get you one, but a cheap on is best first in case the pony does not take to it.
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Thats utter nonsense. You can buy Zilco from all the driving suppliers in the UK. Most of them will make you up a harness to fit if you give them the measurements. I also see them come up second hand all the time. Mine was £100 second hand, which was a lucky buy, but they do come up at reasonable prices.
 
I've got pnuematic tyres, they have that run flat gel stuff in so should be ok to get us home in case of a puncture. I do prefer them to normal wheels, but I think its because I'm used to that type now. They do seem to help when we are off road going through huge muddy puddles and up slippery hills, but who knows. I got them because I didnt have 10k for a new marathon vehicle, and found this one second hand.

If you find a good instructor they usually have ponies and a couple of set ups of their own so you can have a play around before buying your own. You will be surprised how difficult it is to drive well. I wouldnt have wanted to learn on a newly broken pony. My pony is a saint and makes everyone look good, and if I do something really stupid he helps me out. It needs to be the other way round with a novice pony.

I started thinking I would plod out down the lanes every now and again, now we drive as much as we can, drive out, school, have really gotten into proper cross training fittening work, can string together a not to disgraceful dressage test and make it round an obstacle course and round of cones. I'm hopefully doing the last indoor trial of the season having finally sorted transport, and I'm even idly thinking about proper driving trials now.

Driving is utterly addictive! Leo has introduced about 20 of my friends and family to driving and has his own little fan club who take turns driving out with me.
 
Leo Walker said:
Thats utter nonsense. You can buy Zilco from all the driving suppliers in the UK. Most of them will make you up a harness to fit if you give them the measurements. I also see them come up second hand all the time. Mine was £100 second hand, which was a lucky buy, but they do come up at reasonable prices.
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Leo W do you know what it was like buying a shetland harness from Zilco in 2013?? - since you have only just started driving in july 2017 and Leo is a good cob size so most likely come up more readily.





I am repeating my experience of buying a Zilco which I did back in 2013 that is 6 years ago in my first year and then it was harder than probably now. The only person I knew who could get one and come measure my pony for one was Sally Edwards as she is a distributor for them so that is the route I took. When you first go into driving you seek people in your 50 mile area to help. If you are lucky to have someone to guide you and advise you great - I did not so went to Sally.

Welsh A are tiny harness and pony did not fit and even the traces on the shetland were too long so had to order smaller ones. It is easier with a bigger horse I am sure.

Might be different in the last 5 years I cannot pass comment on that now, I did not want a second hand one I wanted new so doing sponsored drives there would be no issue when they checked the tack prior, as many get sent away if the harness does not pass the inspection. I wanted a new Zilco for the sponsored drives and used only in those occasions.

Unless you know what it was like in 2013 buying a tiny harness and my area you won't know how hard it was, since I have not bought or in the market for another one 6 years later I was presuming you still need to order them. So don't expect me to know they are more widely available now.
 
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ILuvCowparsely said:
Leo W do you know what it was like buying a shetland harness from Zilco in 2013?? - since you have only just started driving in july 2017 and Leo is a good cob size so most likely come up more readily.





I am repeating my experience of buying a Zilco which I did back in 2013 that is 6 years ago in my first year and then it was harder than probably now. The only person I knew who could get one and come measure my pony for one was Sally Edwards as she is a distributor for them so that is the route I took. When you first go into driving you seek people in your 50 mile area to help. If you are lucky to have someone to guide you and advise you great - I did not so went to Sally.

Welsh A are tiny harness and pony did not fit and even the traces on the shetland were too long so had to order smaller ones. It is easier with a bigger horse I am sure.

Might be different in the last 5 years I cannot pass comment on that now, I did not want a second hand one I wanted new so doing sponsored drives there would be no issue when they checked the tack prior, as many get sent away if the harness does not pass the inspection. I wanted a new Zilco for the sponsored drives and used only in those occasions.

Unless you know what it was like in 2013 buying a tiny harness and my area you won't know how hard it was, since I have not bought or in the market for another one 6 years later I was presuming you still need to order them. So don't expect me to know they are more widely available now.
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I have shetlands, and it is now relatively easy to buy a harness for smaller ponies. I have been buying harness for the last couple of years for shetlands. Zilco is available in all sizes, including the smallest at quite a number of retailers now. I do buy mine from someone in the channel islands, as she offers best price and best service, but that's a choice I've made, not because it's not available here, because it is. Things have begun to change for the smaller pony - driving them is becoming more popular, and along with that, access to all the things you need to drive them with.
 
Not adding fuel to the fire but some Sec A's do take smaller harness parts than standard Shetland and it can be a case of having to mix and match, as it's not always possible to add holes.
 
I bought a Shetland Tedex in about 2011 with no trouble at all. OP, I hope you have many years of fun ahead of you. I bought my little driving pony after we failed to find a suitable horse for my daughter, so used the money put aside for some serious schooling for her own pony and a pony and cart for me. Potentially it could have been disastrous, pony was only just broken and my experience was a horse drawn caravan holiday and borrowing a gypsy pony that a friend knew, however pony is a saint, we trot smartly round our local roads and have done lots of indoor trials. She's not strong enough for outdoor events but I have just (yesterday) found what I hope will make a pair with her so I have double the horse power. The chap who broke her was called Johnny and came from around Sway, he did a really good job, though I've not met anyone else who knows him.
 
I'm not sure what buying a harness 5yrs ago has got to do with someone buying one now. My second hand Zilco is what I used to pass my driving competency test where they are checked for fit and safety for driving trials, so I'm utterly confident its safe.
 
millikins said:
She's not strong enough for outdoor events but I have just (yesterday) found what I hope will make a pair with her so I have double the horse power.
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I keep seeing people going for pairs, so far I've not felt the lure. I hope it stays that way, 2 of mine would be a formidable pair in all ways! :lol:
 
Our local driving group runs all sorts of courses and training days, they are very keen that everyone has fun, safely.
I would recommend that you go along and pick their brains thoroughly, even though you don't want to do masses. They run road safety courses for instance. Also you could go and offer to be a helper at a competition and pick up information from the stewards, judges and competitors - they love introducing new people. And they would know someone to help you break in your pony.
 
Leo Walker said:
I keep seeing people going for pairs, so far I've not felt the lure. I hope it stays that way, 2 of mine would be a formidable pair in all ways! :lol:
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Mine is a tiddler at 10.3hh and finer than a pure Shettie, really couldn't ask her to pull 2 adults round even a shortened outdoor course :) Your cob is lovely btw.
 
I use Chandelles for zilco these days. Our 12.1 non reg As are in the biggest SL harness off the shelf, our 12hh A in a Shetland/pony mix and my old 11.1 A was in pretty much all tedex shetland. I love zilco and my harness (12 years old in part) still cleans up well but it is crazy expensive :( (Currently shopping for a 13.1 pairs set!)
 
Leo Walker said:
I'm not sure what buying a harness 5yrs ago has got to do with someone buying one now. My second hand Zilco is what I used to pass my driving competency test where they are checked for fit and safety for driving trials, so I'm utterly confident its safe.
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I was merely saying my comment was based on my experience of buying Zilco for a 12hh which was 5 years ago was it was hard to find a tiny one unless you order one which I did. As OP has a 12hh like me so I felt justified to explain I had to order mine and since I have not bought another Zilco since then I had no reason to think it was any different. The fact is it is easier now it is a good thing as more learn to drive, but to expect someone to know it is easier now cannot be taken for granted they would know unless they are in the market for a new one.

As my welshy is a mix of shetland and small pony I was not going to trust my judgement measurements to order a harness as I was buying it to compete with and wanted it fitting like a glove and new one, there was no room for error money wise only to have to pay for more parts as the bog standard did not fit all over, and did not want to end up paying for parts that did not fit.

No regrets having my harness ordered to fit her like a glove and no spare large parts. I cannot afford to buy something unless it 99.9% fits the pony it is for - so I always check and double check.
 
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