Dry patches under wintec wide saddle - help! Very wide horse!

The gullet is what supports the weight of the saddle - honestly your horse doesn't look that wide if it's digging in to the shoulder your saddle is too far forward. Compare the piece of metal to your wither drawing they should be the same..,
 
roz84 said:
but if i put a narrower gullet in, would it not dig in as soon as i got on board? thought the basic principle was that the width of the gullet has to follow the contour of the back! i will feel very foolish if that isn't the case.......... :-D
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Not if the gullet is already too wide. I think the panels are sitting too wide, and the saddle is therfore too wide in general, no matter the gullet. The panels need to sit closer to the spine or they rip the muscles.
 
roz84 said:
I am between an 8 and 10 - does this open up a whole new world of saddles lol!?
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You will be fine in a smaller seat then....with the wintecs the smallest they do for adults its the 16 1/2" as below the the flaps become shorter so leg room is going to be less.

Measure your gullet against the drawing you have. If it matches then it is fine and i think you would need a smaller seat so it sits better if that makes sense.

If it doesn't match the drawing then you need to change to one that does and I would still get a smaller seat. Being your size you shouldn't need anything bigger than a 16 1/2" I know I find even a 17" a bit too roomy and im a size eight, eight stone and 5'6.

Hope that all made sense, broken pony has fried my brain.
 
I have 16inch on both my ponies and my Haffies is also a WH so cut very straight. My 16.5 Wintec Wide was far too big and compared to my little Saddle Company saddle, seemed massive and heavy.
 
equi said:
Not if the gullet is already too wide. I think the panels are sitting too wide, and the saddle is therfore too wide in general, no matter the gullet. The panels need to sit closer to the spine or they rip the muscles.
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That does make sense, i get where you're coming from
 
Slightlyconfused said:
You will be fine in a smaller seat then....with the wintecs the smallest they do for adults its the 16 1/2" as below the the flaps become shorter so leg room is going to be less.

Measure your gullet against the drawing you have. If it matches then it is fine and i think you would need a smaller seat so it sits better if that makes sense.

If it doesn't match the drawing then you need to change to one that does and I would still get a smaller seat. Being your size you shouldn't need anything bigger than a 16 1/2" I know I find even a 17" a bit too roomy and im a size eight, eight stone and 5'6.

Hope that all made sense, broken pony has fried my brain.
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Yes the gullet does match the wither tracing, i think the above poster has a good point regarding the width of the panels..... so looks like i'm off to find a smaller seat saddle then!
 
roz84 said:
Yes the gullet does match the wither tracing, i think the above poster has a good point regarding the width of the panels..... so looks like i'm off to find a smaller seat saddle then!
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Trust me, after all i went through with wintecs i am somewhat a self taught expert lmao (jk) but my very large welsh D x was too small for the wintec wide but it fits a trad cob. I just don't think its for a halfie. Hope you get it sorted.
 
It could.be you need to go down into a normal wintec not the wide and have the white gullet in it? Have you tried that?

What colour gullet have you got in it now?
 
it has the xxw gullet in at the moment...a normal wintec can't take an xxw gullet, however i know that other makes such as thorowgood can, and also i think go down to a 16.5 inch seat (correct me if i'm wrong!!)
 
roz84 said:
it has the xxw gullet in at the moment...a normal wintec can't take an xxw gullet, however i know that other makes such as thorowgood can, and also i think go down to a 16.5 inch seat (correct me if i'm wrong!!)
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thorowgood are in general a better saddle. I would try an xwide one (not xxwide), i almost guarantee it will fit.
 
Just be careful with hoe long their gullets are.....with our tb they dug into his shoulders but he was in a normal tg so don't know what the sides are like.
 
The photo's are hard to assess like that!
roz84 said:
Thanks very much for that reply - I have duly been up and taken photos, both before and after riding - the pictures with the stirrups down are afterwards. I didn't use a numnah, rode for about 20 mins in the school. You can just about see the hair ruffling in the pictures that show the sweat patches (she wasn't really sweating to be fair).

I will post the link to the album below; hopefully you can see it!

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roz84 said:
They have appeared like magic in the quote bit!
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That will be because KB has sorted all the links out. :)

Thanks KB. :)

I hope that SBloom sees this post as fitting wide horses is her forte, I believe. I have to say that from reading the comments before seeing the photos, the saddle doesn't look anywhere near as wide as I expected.
 
I had a similar problem with mine and he needs fitting further back due to a large shoulder. He also has a forward girth groove so I would also recommend a curved girth to ensure the girth is not pulling the saddle forward onto the shoulder once you get moving.
 
Am finally here lol!!
Horsesforever1 said:
I have 2 very wide backed horses and i think its probably impossible to get a brilliant fit, What I do is have a thickly padded humnah underneath, it takes out any minor abnormalities.
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Disagree, wide horses are tricky for many generlist saddle fitter, you may need a specialist. My average fit is XW-XXW.

roz84 said:
but if i put a narrower gullet in, would it not dig in as soon as i got on board? thought the basic principle was that the width of the gullet has to follow the contour of the back! i will feel very foolish if that isn't the case.......... :-D
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You can ONLY assess tree width when the saddle is at least girthed up firmly, watch the tree points as you girth up, they will look different, a tree that looked too upright in the points (too narrow) often looks MUCH better girthed up.

What no-one has mentioned is the flatness of the tree. Your pony has wither height, but it is forwards of where the saddle tree should be, so you should almost certainly have a flatter tree and set the saddle back, with a shorter seat if need be. Ruffling at the top edge of the panel, and feeling pressure there with your hand when sliding it under the girthed up panel, means the tree is too wide, and I Bet this saddle is lifting at the back in rising trot. You probably should have gone narrower instead, but it may tip the saddle back.

I do think you will probably need a point strap, but I'd be very unhappy using one on a Wintec saddle as they have that kink in the arms of the headplate and this will emphasise the differential pressures this places on the horse. TG gullets are better, but they all have rather long points which also aren't helpful, and sit you way off the horse. They do work for some wide horses, as do the Wintec Wides, but they definintely do not work on all.

And once again for anyone looking for saddle fitting advice, the best photos for assessing a saddle are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk0s4nNYNtw

and for deciding what saddles to shop for as it were:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14lx16IRtu4

A conformation shot is always needed, we need to see the whole horse, whatever the purpose of the photos ie whether the saddle is on and girthed up or not :)
 
On one of mine when his wintec wide (big shoulders now withers elephant) the back of the saddle kept lifting so we just use the last two girth straps and it stopped that. Its fine now.
 
I would say that the girthing should be used mainly for aligning the girth with the girth groove and they ideally shouldn't be used to hold a tree down and stop it rocking. Every case is different but for instance we use point straps a lot, some fitters dislike them as they say they pull the front of the saddle down, but if the tree is flat enough and the contours of the fit at the front are 100% then it's just not the case and works well to keep saddles back. The back two girth straps generally encourage a saddle to move forwards which can then also tip it back. It will stop the back lifting but can have undesired side effects.
 
It's interesting what you say about the tree shape, when I saw the pic of the back only it didn't strike me as a typical wintec shaped back, but I couldn't decide once I'd seen the saddle on pics.
 
sbloom said:
I would say that the girthing should be used mainly for aligning the girth with the girth groove and they ideally shouldn't be used to hold a tree down and stop it rocking. Every case is different but for instance we use point straps a lot, some fitters dislike them as they say they pull the front of the saddle down, but if the tree is flat enough and the contours of the fit at the front are 100% then it's just not the case and works well to keep saddles back. The back two girth straps generally encourage a saddle to move forwards which can then also tip it back. It will stop the back lifting but can have undesired side effects.
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we are lucky in our case, my fitter said the same as you but we tried it anyway and the saddle didn't move and the template on his back was perfect. he gets it looked at every six months and we have been shown to look for the front lifting up and to call her if it does.
 
I have a suspicious that it bridges a little in the current position which would also cause the front ruffles. It's wedged up onto the shoulders and then is a little pushed up at the back by her croup high-ness.

It most definitely needs to sit a good couple of inches further back but as others have said, that will make it too long. Wintecs are notorious of being really long in the panel. The only problem will be KEEPING it further back.

Sat further back the width may be correct (they get wider further back, which is why too-narrow saddles ride forwards to the narrower withers and neck). But then it may sit too low at the front.

I think I would try a Prolite front raiser with that saddle. It will make up the slight too-wideness, balance and lift the front and stop the rock and back lifting. It will hopefully stop it riding forwards when used with the point strap.

My friend has a horses with a very similar shape years and also the same saddle (older WIDE wintec). He used to bronc like mad when asking him to canter :( So I fitted it a gullet one wider and put a Prolite front raiser under it and sat it 2 inches further back. It worked like magic. He then went on loan and the loaner decided the pad indicated a poor fit so removed it and was promptly bucked off! :eek!
 
Um.... was your saddle flocked by a saddler or did you buy it as a flocked model from Wintec? Just asking because I have a new style Wintec 500 Wide AP and when my saddler came to check the flocking, it turned out that Wintec put ready-made panels of flock into the saddles rather than flocking them directly. I took this video of the ones that were removed from my saddle as I was shocked at how hard they are on the outside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw09kR2Aj1I&list=UULsEZU2jEQlKI1FPV4zKFMg

And inside that hard shell, was flocking that looked like cotton wool balls. This was out of a saddle that I had bought second-hand, but had only been used a handful of times since brand new....

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Are the stirrups hanging down straight, maybe you need a halfpad with shims to balance it up? Often need front riser with a bum high horse. I know your pain on saddle twelve now, horse very similar shape but more angular scapula. have changed to a monoflap as it girths farther back and around the middle of the saddle so flaps are able to move freely over shoulder. not conventional saddle fit but he, saddler and chiropractor are all happy as am I.
 
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