Dually, 'be-nice' or something else?

MissSBird

MissSBird

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Hi guys

Had an interesting experience with my boy today. He's 4 and generally very sweet natured, but can be quite bolshy which is something we've been working on with groundwork etc. He's usually well-behaved these days when you're leading him about the yard.

Today I went up to get my boy and he allowed me to catch him fine. We started back across the field and there the problems began. It started with trying to bite at the lead rope, then bite at the hand which he promptly got scolded for. This naughtyness built up to doing small rears, spinning, leaping around and eventually pulling the rope from my hand and running off with me.

I refused to give up with him, and eventually we did manage to get down the field with my hand on the back of the nose band, pretty much twisting it uncomfortably whenever he started it and lots of praise when he was behaving. I'm not entirely sure he gave into behaving, however, as there is a road that runs parallel to my field and as he walked down in a reasonable manner a pony from his field was being lead back up this road (returning from a hack). So he may have been following it down.

He wasn't vicious in his activities by any means, nor frightened. It was basically 'I don't want to leave my friends so I'm not going to'. It's not the first time he's shown a willful streak of this kind of nature, but this behaviour in the field was new.

So now I want to get something I can use as a headcollar that offers more control should this happen again.

The dually headcollar has been suggested to me, and I've seen the 'be-nice' online. Any opinions of these items/thoughts on what might work would be greatly appreciated!
 
The be nice one should be your last result as that one has the most poll pressure on a horse, a dually is kinder to try first. I use the richard maxwell pressure lead rope headcollar as i needed more control of my mare who would always bolt in-hand every time she was led it works for me most of the time and she respects it. To travel her in i have brought her a be nice one as i need that little bit more pressure on her - she is fine to travel just the loading thats issue but with this on she is fine no issues at all.
 
I swear by the 'be nice halters', how much pressure is applied is all dependant on whose hands are holding the horse. I've recently had to get one for my yearling (turing 2 year old) who is big, and getting bolshy, he accidentally put me in hospital through 'playful' behaviour, I got the halter and haven't looked back, he leads most of the time with no pressure on it at all, but if he misbehaves the pressure it applies gives me the control I need and he respects it. I've also been advised to try a stallion chain over the nose on a normal leather headcollar. This this is another option you could try.
 
With out meaning to sound rude. ' My horse respects the Be-Nice' I would rather work on getting my horse to respect me. I would take a carrot with me rather than a pressure halter, just to appreciate him leaving his friends.

If you tell him of for biting it will only makes things worse in that situation. Build respect and attention when you can don't loose it by starting a fight you won't win.
 
i have heard good things about the intelligent horsemanship (kelly marks/monty) who sell the duallys at decent price. I havent ventured in buying one yet, my big one decides to trot around me and have little prances, little rear (did it twice, the second time to check what had happened to him).
I have found nto to lead with a tight hold on the leadrope and not under the chin - this cause him to feel pressure and natural instinct is to move away from pressure, so i hold him fairly losely, The time he reared i pulled him back down (im quite small myself) and shouted at him him so loudly that he looked at me as if to say shitealight! Then i talked to him quietly, then he tried it again and got the same treatment a big mouth and a loud shout. He hasnt done it since.

I dont feed mine titbits - they come to call and they get groomed, loved, kissed cuddled and a rub between the eyes. They love that more than a carrot - plus it discourages biting. I want them to come because they want to be with me not because they know food will be given.
 
Dancing Queen said:
I dont feed mine titbits - they come to call and they get groomed, loved, kissed cuddled and a rub between the eyes. They love that more than a carrot - plus it discourages biting. I want them to come because they want to be with me not because they know food will be given.
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I do agree that horse are not motivated with food as a reward for most training problems, but if it's not working and you need something extra I would try a carrot not a Be-Nice, then learn a bit more about how to improve the balance.
 
better half said:
With out meaning to sound rude. ' My horse respects the Be-Nice' I would rather work on getting my horse to respect me. I would take a carrot with me rather than a pressure halter, just to appreciate him leaving his friends.

If you tell him of for biting it will only makes things worse in that situation. Build respect and attention when you can don't loose it by starting a fight you won't win.
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Guessing that was aimed at what i said. Ok so background before anyone else jumps on what i said. Mare in question would bolt off in-hand every day. Bolt out of stable, going to field, coming in. When i got her pressure headcollar used it to do groundwork with her, also got Richard Maxwell out to work with her last year when she started to play up again.


Bit hard to get a horse to respect you when they have no trust in people and have been passed around so many times! And yes she now trusts me enough to do things like inject her which she hates. As for using food to bring her in she attacked people so i think combining food with the issue would be dangerous all around somehow. Since she has had pressure headcollar she has improved tenfold. Oh and she was used at a kelly marks demo and would not do what kelly asked her to do like backup yet did it straight away for me so i would say she has respect for me. She no longer attacks people but has taken a long time to stop her and in all time ive had her she never attacked me for just being near her.
 
No I think it was in response to my text!!!! As I use the be nice!

But be wary about using titbits, if your horse has already been a bit 'nippy', I know if I used titbits with my boy it would encourage nippy behaviour, he is a typical big baby but as such does need to learn respect for the handler otherwise it would become an issue and a dangerous one at that. He leads beautifully, walks, trots and halts and backs up without the halter, but I currently use it 'incase' of an issue as he started to be naughty to lead out of the stable in the morning when he's been cooped up overnight , and just wants to get out and enjoy himself (and did put me in hospital one morning!).

As I said a be nice halter in the right hands is no more severe than a headcollar in the wrong hands!!! You are right that it's all about horsemanship but pressure halters have their place within that.

And I do not need titbits or food to catch him or get him to leave another horse, I do not agree with using titbits as it can create as many problems as it solves! My horse comes galloping to me to be caught without the need of food or titbits.
 
what works for one horse, may not work for another. thankfully they are individuals with their own minds, feelings and we each have our own relationships with them. xxxxxxxxxxx
 
There is a similar discussion on the thread "rearing in hand" and Better Half didn't like me advocating the Be Nice on there either! The theories of horsemanship & horse respecting you are great, but when you've got 1/2 ton of attitude on the end of a rope I prefer to be safe and have some degree of control. My boy is usually reasonably well behaved and will walk in on a loose rope but if he is in a strop (no way of predicting when I go out to the field to get him) then in a normal headcollar he will be extremely rude, even aggressive, whereas he will be much more respectful in the Be Nice, I'd far rather play safe as if he is polite then the pressure doesn't come in to play anyway.
 
Another vote for Be nice. But you do need to teach him how it works and that will go with the ground work your doing with him anyway. And it will only exert pressure when he misbehaves - it does nothing when he walks beside you but respects your space and you don't exert the pressure when he crosses that line he does it himself and releases it by comnig back to you. Yes in the wrong hands it could be very severe but the handler shouldn't be pulling. I've just used one to do walking in hand with horse on box rest after op and what could have been difficult was made very easy as he had total respect. And taking a carrot to the field with a horse thats already trying to bite you would be the last thing I'd try - give him one once your back in the yard having had a calm and sensible behaviour across the field
 
I found that the dually headcollars arnt actually very well made.i used to use one for my cob as at certain times of the year he used to play up when a near by mare was in season. he used to barge off and rush to her field, leaving me trailing behind. she used to flirt like mad and wind all the horses up. so i got one to use then, but one time he pulled off and the rings that you attach the lead rope to broke and the rope that goes over the nose band came off so it was useless.and is now just a basic head collar. was very disapointed as they arnt cheap. i now use one of the rope training head collars with the pressure knots in. not sure if they have a special name or not. and i find these work fantastically. and now he hardly ever attempts to pull off and just plods along beside me,normally giving me a nudge as im a slow coach at the min walking him to the field.
 
That sums up the idea of this post perfectly attheponies. I appreciate that a headcollar will not be a magic cure and will keep working on the issues I'm having, but for safety reasons I think getting something helpful would be wise. I have actually read through the 'rearing in hand' thread and found it very interesting indeed.

I did return to the field twice today throughout the day purely to bring him down to the gate, reward him for walking well then release him back to his friends. He was actually fine on both those occasions. I just want to have something to try and make sure that if these issues reoccur I've a better chance of not getting hurt.

Thank you for the advice and helpful posts! They are gratefully appreciated. I'm going to have a think about which one I feel he'll respond to best from what people have posted on here and on the other thread.

For those who just decided to post sarky comments, if you think I handled the situation incorrectly then the decent thing to do would be to give advice, instead of making useless comments. You're not going to help anyone by quoting phrases like 'improve the balance' without bothering to explain them, share your experiences and offer alternative ideas. Personally I know I've got a lot to learn. I freely admit that and listen to others opinions. It's just a shame you've chosen to take a 'holier than thou' attitude, rather than imparting what you know and being of use to my horse and I. It's no wonder people don't ask for advice if this is the bewildering response they get!
 
As a 4yr old I would think he is starting to feel his feet a little bit and wanting to make the odd decision or two for himself.

As he is not a 'problem' horse by any means I do tend to go with the upping your horsemanship skills approach as he matures and ups his opinions, before starting to use pressure halters and the like.
 
I don't think I'd bother with any of the headcollars. Buy a leadrope with a good, solid chain on the end and put that over his nose. (Don't loop it around, too much chance of him getting a foot stuck.) Here's a good way of hooking it up.

You don't have to yank on it- the pressure from the chain usually convinces them not to mess around.
 
AndySpooner said:
As a 4yr old I would think he is starting to feel his feet a little bit and wanting to make the odd decision or two for himself.

As he is not a 'problem' horse by any means I do tend to go with the upping your horsemanship skills approach as he matures and ups his opinions, before starting to use pressure halters and the like.
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Do have any suggestions as to what I should do then?
 
MissSBird said:
Do have any suggestions as to what I should do then?
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Gosh, well, you know when you went and got him again, and then let him go, I would have done an hour or so groundwork with him.

The more instruction he gets now, from you, reinforces your position as his leader and he does what you want him to do, when you are about, rather than him thinking he'd rather stay in the field.
 
I would recommend a rope headcollar and a 20ft line. The rope headcollar has specific pressure points (if fitted correctly), and the line gives you plenty of scope, and leverage if needed.

Oh and always wear gloves and a hat (sorry if I am preaching to the converted :-))
 
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bumper said:
I would recommend a rope headcollar and a 20ft line. The rope headcollar has specific pressure points (if fitted correctly), and the line gives you plenty of scope, and leverage if needed.

Oh and always wear gloves and a hat (sorry if I am preaching to the converted :-))
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I would agree with this also. The rope headcollar is useful as it is uncomfortable for him to use it against you as he can with a webbing or leather headcollar, as it is not comfortable to brace against. The trick is to make it easy for him to do the right thing and hard to do the wrong.

As far as the 20 foot line goes, most people are not used to handling such lengths of rope and unless your rope handling skills are good, you spend more time faffing with the rope, and there is always a danger of getting tangled up, and being dragged, through inexperience. Try a 12 foot rope then progress to a 20 foot as you become more confident and at ease with these lengths of line.

You may be advised to put a bridle on him to lead him, but in my view this is completely the wrong advice. The bridle should only be used when riding, not as an additional restraint on the ground. If a young horse cannot be controlled in a headcollar, mis use of the bridle in these circumstances will create further problems later on.
 
Somewhat preaching to the converted. After yesterdays escapades I will definitely be wearing my hat and gloves when I go to get him today (and hopefully murphy's law will come into play and he'll be perfect once more).

I've seen one woman on the yard who uses one of those rope halters and her horse is about the same size, so I'll have a chat with her about it and see if I can maybe borrow to see how it works/how we take to it. Not comfortable with the idea of taking a long rope into the field, particularly 20ft. He got away from me several times yesterday, and the thought of a loose horse in the field dragging a 20ft rope around 3 other horses is not one I'm keen on. And I think my YO will definitely be against it.

Definitely won't use a bridle. I do use them sometimes for leading/ground work because I show this boy in-hand so it's important for him to be obedient to it. They are very impractical for the field, however, and I don't like the idea of his mouth being the pressure point should he start up. I can only imagine the association of the bit with that will sour him to being bridled at all and consequently damage his ridden work.

Thanks for the advice!
 
I bought a Be Nice for our Fjord who can be very pushy and it worked a treat for six months, but she's now learnt a new trick. She walks along nicely and calmly on the Be Nice and without warning bolts off at a flat out gallop. Obviously in a Be Nice this is really dangerous for her as she's likely to stand on the lead rope, so today we tried a normal headcollar with the leadrope with chain over her nose and she behaved perfectly.
 
i also use the rope/chain over nose trick aswell. and it does work and isnt harsh atall. as the rope headcollars are a faf to do up in the dark unless you have a head torch. and you have to make sure the pressure points are in the right spot. so if im up late i just use a normal headcollar and loop the lead rope over his nose. sometimes its good to give them a variety of things so they dont get used to one way and then learn to evade that aswell, as they sometimes do. well my boy does anyway. hes a clever and crafty big cob not a good mix.i swear hes never grown up.
 
Dancing Queen said:
I dont feed mine titbits - they come to call and they get groomed, loved, kissed cuddled and a rub between the eyes. They love that more than a carrot - plus it discourages biting. I want them to come because they want to be with me not because they know food will be given.
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Excellent - I like that!

Although titbits can be given in ways that don't encourage biting (it's just another skill), how much more satisfying to know that your horse comes because of who you are rather than what you bring.
 
Good old fashioned cow halter, cost at a max £5, can be adjusted to fit any horse, works on everything from a section A to a full shire IME. I cannot understand why anybody would shell out the vast amounts of money I keep seeing quoted on here for gimmicks. We have used these for over 30 years, ALL horses learn to lead on them. We do not allow bad manners to continue, although we have bought a few who needed to learn this.
 
I find that rather than using a long rope, the safest place to be with a difficult to lead horse is close to the neck, just in front of the shoulder, with a normal length rope and a schooling whip. With a rope halter, it is possible to hold the 'curb' part of the rope which also gives a bit of extra control. If you need to circle the horse, then it can circle round you, while you stay in more or less the same place, so that you can then carry on as though nothing has happened.
I am not sure why the headcollar became the norm, as I find that they give very little control in any circumstance.
 
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