Dually/Control headcollars

Suec04

Suec04

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Can someone please find me the thread on these. It was posted a while ago but i can't seem to find it.

my cob mare needs a little reminder about her manners and that barging through me to get to the field gate is not the way to do it! I have seen so many different types of headcollar and i don't know which one to choose.... :/

thank you :)
 
I have used a dually and it was good but also have used a Newmarket chain and a normal head collar.
Someone I know uses a dog chain with a clip one end, she covers it with material so it does not rub and adds it to a normal head collar . Must cheaper then the control head collars if you only expect to use for a short time. They must be nearing £60 by now as they were well over £40 when I went to buy several years ago.
Just a thought
 
I have a Dually, originally bought for loading but then I lost my normal headcollar so it gets used every day. It's a godsend for loading as I can just unclip and tie her, rather than having to unthread the rope from her noseband. Worth the money.
 
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ar-Riding-Bitless&highlight=dually+headcollar

I tried a nose chain headcollar and worked for a time but the horse ended up resenting it and started going up in the air with the staff when they turned him out in the morning. He doesn't like anything around his nose but doesn't mind the dually.

I ride and jump in mine every now and again and the horse can go really nicely in it. If i can find the video I have just posted on youtube i will put the link on here for you.
 
Here is the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTWfHlttlcg

The horse goes quite freely and loosely in the dually although this was the first time I'd filmed it and the second time using it. He has quite a nice frame. Shame about the sack of spuds on his back! lol. When I saw this video I cringed, I look such a chav in my Lonsdale jacket!
 
I like the dually. I intend to long rein my young horse in it next year. She was very nervous when I first got her and would just pull the rope through my hands to get away. Two or three lessons in the dually and she thinks she can't get away now so has stopped trying. It's great for loading too.
 
Thank you everyone. not sure I like the idea of a chain though - seems a bit harsh :( think I will take a look at both dually and the parelli one.

Applecart - you do not look like a sack of spuds! :) your horse is going beautifully in that video. thank you for sharing it :)
 
I really don't like Duallys or rope headcollars. I use a chain attached through the underside of the headcollar but then again my horse would laugh at dually or rope headcollar.

A few on my yard use Duallys and one uses a headcollar with chain over nose. When horses start to get bargey the action of both (or how they are used) causes the horses to curl neck and head in front of handler and horses then start to move handlers around with their shoulders, then they start going around in circles. Then feet get trodden on or horse legs it.

That said though, I'm sure if they are used correctly they can get job done. I just think they are quite limited. And it also makes me cringe everytime I see horses tied up in a rope headcollar or by the nosepiece ring of a Dually!
 
Neither do I Illusion100... it's just another reinvention of the wheel in my eyes and not a particularly effective one at that. The trouble with them is, you need to first teach the horse pressure-release. If you don't get that right or if they are not used to it, it confuses the hell out of them and they will run away from the pain it exerts on the UNDERSIDE of the jaw. This is very sensitive and horses typically move away from pressure which is why so many rearers are reported when using them. Even WITH the DVD.

Everything has its uses of course, and used well it IS effective as I have used one on a horse with good effect but it does not suit every horse or every handler.

Good luck and I hope you have success :)
 
I have a parelli and I use my friend's dually. The dually is so much better, I just feel I have a lot more control with it and my horse is soooo good to lead when she is wearing it. Definitely recommend it.
 
I find a plain rope halter very adequate for most things. Not a "be good" type that tightens, just a fixed one. I lead, load, lunge in it. A bridle fits over it comfortably. Along with a 10 foot rope it's about all I use to lead in these days (although I have a Dually and a few ordinary headcollars).
 
My friends horse leads out very sensibly in a dually although does go up with an ordinary headcollar and leadrope when he gets excited.
 
Another for the (home made) rope halter. We never seem to have enough of them and they are almost "one size fits all". Properly taught pressure and release, all ours lead on a slack rope and we never have a struggle. Cheap, simple, foldable to go in your pocket, and very easy to put on a shy horse.
 
I personally like the 'Be Nice' headcollars. My youngster came to me with very little leading manners, despite being lead in a Dually. I bought the 'Be Nice' when he arrived and he leads out very nicely in a normal headcollar now (most of the time!)
 
tallyho! said:
The trouble with them is, you need to first teach the horse pressure-release. If you don't get that right or if they are not used to it, it confuses the hell out of them
Click to expand...

Horses have an inbuilt resistance to pressure, often referred to as an 'opposition reflex', and this must be overcome by teaching the horse to yield to pressure. Horses live with pressure and release. It is a fundamental part of their training and their working lives. Horses which have not been correctly taught to yield to pressure will always have an element of resistance to it, and this will manifest in their behaviour.

Correct use of pressure and release is what differentiates between a horse's response to pressure, which is desirable, and his reaction to pressure, which is not what we want. Once a horse has learned the desired response to a signal from pressure, he can be taught to offer that response habitually.

So, it may be troublesome to teach a horse 'pressure-release', but it is probably the most important thing of all.

tallyho! said:
horses typically move away from pressure which is why so many rearers are reported when using them. Even WITH the DVD.
Click to expand...

Actually, horses will not naturally typically 'move away' from pressure. It may seem as if they do if pressure is applied to the poll when asking a horse to step toward the handler, but in fact the horse is opposing the pressure and this is demonstrated by its inclination to pull back.

The more pressure exerted on the poll, the more the horse will oppose it and any efforts by the handler to pull harder than the horse will result in increased resistance from the horse and a rearer is made.

It is lack of feel and timing which causes failure with pressure halters; these cannot be taught or learned by a DVD.

tallyho! said:
they will run away from the pain it exerts on the UNDERSIDE of the jaw.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it actually is the Dually halter you are describing when you say 'they will run away from the pain it exerts on the UNDERSIDE of the jaw', as there is no way that I can see that such pressure is brought to bear in that area from the Dually?

One pressure halter which exerts pressure on the underside if the jaws is the Be-Nice halter.

I don't rate the Dually halter as a means of training horses. I find it handy for starting horses in long-reins, so that they can be controlled without use of a bit, but that's about it. I can't quite see how pulling on one ring, on one side of the face, can encourage a horse to lead in a straight line. I have seen the DVD where the Dually is used to stop a horse from running back, but I just don't think the pressure is subtle or accurate enough for training purposes.
 
AengusOg said:
Horses have an inbuilt resistance to pressure, often referred to as an 'opposition reflex', and this must be overcome by teaching the horse to yield to pressure. Horses live with pressure and release. It is a fundamental part of their training and their working lives. Horses which have not been correctly taught to yield to pressure will always have an element of resistance to it, and this will manifest in their behaviour.

Correct use of pressure and release is what differentiates between a horse's response to pressure, which is desirable, and his reaction to pressure, which is not what we want. Once a horse has learned the desired response to a signal from pressure, he can be taught to offer that response habitually.

So, it may be troublesome to teach a horse 'pressure-release', but it is probably the most important thing of all.



Actually, horses will not naturally typically 'move away' from pressure. It may seem as if they do if pressure is applied to the poll when asking a horse to step toward the handler, but in fact the horse is opposing the pressure and this is demonstrated by its inclination to pull back.

The more pressure exerted on the poll, the more the horse will oppose it and any efforts by the handler to pull harder than the horse will result in increased resistance from the horse and a rearer is made.

It is lack of feel and timing which causes failure with pressure halters; these cannot be taught or learned by a DVD.



I wonder if it actually is the Dually halter you are describing when you say 'they will run away from the pain it exerts on the UNDERSIDE of the jaw', as there is no way that I can see that such pressure is brought to bear in that area from the Dually?

One pressure halter which exerts pressure on the underside if the jaws is the Be-Nice halter.

I don't rate the Dually halter as a means of training horses. I find it handy for starting horses in long-reins, so that they can be controlled without use of a bit, but that's about it. I can't quite see how pulling on one ring, on one side of the face, can encourage a horse to lead in a straight line. I have seen the DVD where the Dually is used to stop a horse from running back, but I just don't think the pressure is subtle or accurate enough for training purposes.
Click to expand...

So if a horse backs into a barbed wire fence, it will keep going backwards?:confused:
 
Dry Rot said:
So if a horse backs into a barbed wire fence, it will keep going backwards?:confused:
Click to expand...

As I understand it, and I'm willing to be corrected here, a horse's survival instinct is to move into pressure to avoid aggravating an injury. Moving away from pressure could lead to tearing flesh (e.g. in the case of the barbed wire fence) and enlarging a wound. Moving into pressure, or at least not moving away, (not the same as forcibly pushing itself further onto a barbed wire fence!) is an attempt to minimise this risk. In a natural environment, a predator would clamp its jaws around part of the horse - pulling away from this could lead to loss of a limb/tearing chunks out of the belly/etc. Similar to the way we wouldn't remove something lodged in a large wound before medical intervention in order to prevent blood loss, I guess?

Our methods of training the domestic horse rely on convincing the horse to yield to pressure though and move away from it. Many years ago I heard of one trainer who trained his horses to move away from pressure, wherever it came from - the headcollar behind the poll, a hand on their shoulder, etc. One horse was trained so 'successfully' that when he finally backed the horse and first put a rider on board, the horse lay down :D
 
AengusOg said:
Horses have an inbuilt resistance to pressure, often referred to as an 'opposition reflex', and this must be overcome by teaching the horse to yield to pressure. Horses live with pressure and release. It is a fundamental part of their training and their working lives. Horses which have not been correctly taught to yield to pressure will always have an element of resistance to it, and this will manifest in their behaviour.

Correct use of pressure and release is what differentiates between a horse's response to pressure, which is desirable, and his reaction to pressure, which is not what we want. Once a horse has learned the desired response to a signal from pressure, he can be taught to offer that response habitually.

So, it may be troublesome to teach a horse 'pressure-release', but it is probably the most important thing of all.



Actually, horses will not naturally typically 'move away' from pressure. It may seem as if they do if pressure is applied to the poll when asking a horse to step toward the handler, but in fact the horse is opposing the pressure and this is demonstrated by its inclination to pull back.

The more pressure exerted on the poll, the more the horse will oppose it and any efforts by the handler to pull harder than the horse will result in increased resistance from the horse and a rearer is made.

It is lack of feel and timing which causes failure with pressure halters; these cannot be taught or learned by a DVD.



I wonder if it actually is the Dually halter you are describing when you say 'they will run away from the pain it exerts on the UNDERSIDE of the jaw', as there is no way that I can see that such pressure is brought to bear in that area from the Dually?

One pressure halter which exerts pressure on the underside if the jaws is the Be-Nice halter.

I don't rate the Dually halter as a means of training horses. I find it handy for starting horses in long-reins, so that they can be controlled without use of a bit, but that's about it. I can't quite see how pulling on one ring, on one side of the face, can encourage a horse to lead in a straight line. I have seen the DVD where the Dually is used to stop a horse from running back, but I just don't think the pressure is subtle or accurate enough for training purposes.
Click to expand...

If you attach a line to one of the rings on the ropes over the nose... that pulls the whole apparatus tight encircling the jaw and nose.
 
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