Dumbfounded after osteo visit.

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Frenchmade

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Hi people. Im a bit in shock really so I hope this makes sense. I had the vet out last week for a clearly sore back on my ex racer Tb (rising 7), and she diagnosed pain in the lumbar region but no lameness and referred me to the osteopath. He came this morning.

He started by examining his scrotal area and found there was a mass which he thinks is the result of my chap being poorly castrated. He suggests the testicle was removed too low down, leaving the 'cord' present and the scarring resulting from the castration has formed a mass. He can feel a kind of stump. (He initially thought it was a testicle, but then after further exam he said no.) He says this is the reason why he didn't pass muster as a steeplechaser as he can't extend his hind legs behind him in jumping, is also the reason why he drags his right hind leg and trips over his own left foot frequently. According to him, there is little to be done as any operation would be extremely tricky, require a specialist, is rare and the prognosis is poor. He wants me to work him on the lunge with a really really short rein (head on chest sort of thing), which is supposed to help his abdominal muscles. And ride him anyway.

Next step for me I suppose is to get the vet back to confirm this diagnosis with a scan or something.

Still reeling from this. Anyone heard of anything like this before?
 
I also don't see how lunging him with his head virtually strapped to his chest would do anything other than put pressure on other areas? That bit really puzzled me - isn't it just going to make his whole frame tense?

Hope you get some sense out of your vet.
 
madlady said:
I also don't see how lunging him with his head virtually strapped to his chest would do anything other than put pressure on other areas? That bit really puzzled me - isn't it just going to make his whole frame tense?

Hope you get some sense out of your vet.
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Exactly what I thought of his advice. I work him long and low and he goes like that naturally on the lunge. Sometimes I think he's going to graze his nose! But no, that's not now I shouldd be doing it. head on chest apparently. Im as puzzled as you.
 
I've never heard of anything like that before, but doesn't mean it's not possible I suppose. However the advice to lunge with head on chest would make me doubt everything they have said, as I don't see how that will benefit your horse in any way.
 
Quite a lot of issues on the lower spine and high hind limbs can be from a bad gelding.

Tightness and issues in that area can cause loads of problems and pain from the horse carrying themselves differently.
 
On the vet's advice I have been lunging him daily with a bungee to lower his head forward and down. That's my interpretation of her advice which was simply to lunge him in 'elastic' to bring his head down. He is also on muscle relaxants prescribed by the vet for 10 days. Yesgterday on the lunge, his walk was lovely. Overtracking by about 12". In trot he tracked up perfectly too. But, in trot he did trip himself up a couple of times and did little hops to try to canter from time to time and throwing his head up at the same time.
 
Black Beastie said:
Quite a lot of issues on the lower spine and high hind limbs can be from a bad gelding.

Tightness and issues in that area can cause loads of problems and pain from the horse carrying themselves differently.
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So continual pain? Surely if this is the case then he can't be ridden at all. I don't want to ride if it's causing pain.
 
Girlracer said:
I've never heard of anything like that before, but doesn't mean it's not possible I suppose. However the advice to lunge with head on chest would make me doubt everything they have said, as I don't see how that will benefit your horse in any way.
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I agree with you there. Shock giving way to scepticism now.
 
Is that not a veterinary matter, and not one for an osteopath? Also-cannot see how strapping the head to the chest will help-what an awful suggestion.....
 
The vet was called out first for an obvious back issue, she did a somewhat cursory exam and referred me to this osteo. So clearly next step is to get the vet back out, which i said before.
 
Frenchmade said:
The vet was called out first for an obvious back issue, she did a somewhat cursory exam and referred me to this osteo. So clearly next step is to get the vet back out, which i said before.
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If I were you I would get a different vet, not the same one. Was the vet you used an equine vet?
 
Frenchmade said:
So continual pain? Surely if this is the case then he can't be ridden at all. I don't want to ride if it's causing pain.
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I read an article on it, will have to find it, to do with scar tissue and how the body (horse or human) adapts to it. Humans do it as well, he won't think of it as continual pain as its been so long. His body will have changed but that in itself may have caused the issues.

The article mentioned regular massage and explained what to do, I will try and find it, I had regular massage treatments to fix my surgery scar tissue and it worked.
 
This is a similar article but not the one I read.

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Gelding-Scar-And-Its-Drag-Effect&id=7031363

I'm lucky in that my geldings sheath and scar is pliable, loose and relaxed all the way up, I have checked a few friends horses sheath to get a difference in feel and they do all feel very different, one was very tight and he made the ' sheath noise' in all gaits. Although some say this is a tightness and some say it's being relaxed and air getting in.
 
Get an experienced equine vet on the job .
The thing with osteos is it's about impossible to work out wether your dealing with a dangerous crank or a insightful expert until your well down the road .
 
NeverEver said:
If I were you I would get a different vet, not the same one. Was the vet you used an equine vet?
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Yes a very reputable equine vet. I rang her a short while ago to explain what the osteo had found but unfortunately didn't understand her response. Then we got mysteriously cut off, just after I said I didn't understand... She's French and doesn't speak English. I've asked here on the english forums for the name of an English speaking vet. If I am to contact my insurance company about this, then what I need is confirmation from a vet and a report with corroboration by scan or whatever they need. I also want this diagnosis confirming anyway. There are other equine vets here, but I've seen one of them and he's totally useless. Very frustrating. Would really like just to have a chat with a vet who can give me some idea of how likely this is, what to do about it, operate or not.. etc. One needs to be aware that in this part of France, the osteo is regarded as the first port of call, not the vet. People here have total faith in human and equine osteopaths. It's not like the UK where it's considered 'alternative', people here really believe they are the bees knees. I insisted in getting the vet first, but she just referred me to the osteo. She was quite prepared to defer her opinion until after I had seen the osteo. I mentioned kissing spines and she said wait until he's seen the osteo... But I do need a vet to confirm or otherwise, the diagnosis. I'll need that anyway to see what my insurance will cover.
 
Black Beastie said:
This is a similar article but not the one I read.

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Gelding-Scar-And-Its-Drag-Effect&id=7031363

I'm lucky in that my geldings sheath and scar is pliable, loose and relaxed all the way up, I have checked a few friends horses sheath to get a difference in feel and they do all feel very different, one was very tight and he made the ' sheath noise' in all gaits. Although some say this is a tightness and some say it's being relaxed and air getting in.
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Really interesting article, thank you. How can one massage internal scarring though, especially in that area? The problem is internal, not on the skin. Not sure how that would work? More questions!
 
Frenchmade said:
Really interesting article, thank you. How can one massage internal scarring though, especially in that area? The problem is internal, not on the skin. Not sure how that would work? More questions!
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The article (I cannot find incidentally) explained it all but I suppose it would depend how far the scarring goes internally :)
 
Hi,
All I can add is that when my vet came out to feel an odd lump on a horse she said It feels like...' and then slapped her wrist and said' my vet teacher would have said you can't see with your hands....scan it '! And bless her she did....and it turned out to be a benign cyst...get the vet out to scan it then you will know what you are dealing with....me thinks osteo didn't have a clue and tried to give you an answer just because there was a fee involved....but them I am a sceptic ;)
Best of luck
Bryndu
 
Goldenstar said:
Get an experienced equine vet on the job .
The thing with osteos is it's about impossible to work out wether your dealing with a dangerous crank or a insightful expert until your well down the road .
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This.

In New Zealand a vet would never refer you to an osteo as there is no recognised qualification for that here. Is there one in the UK?
 
NZJenny said:
This.

In New Zealand a vet would never refer you to an osteo as there is no recognised qualification for that here. Is there one in the UK?
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There most certainly is for humans but sadly this doesn't follow on for animals - it is a protected title (so an osteopath has to have qualified and be registered) but there is no legal requirement for a level of training to practice with animals in the UK ie any osteopath can go and treat animals without a minimum legal training, although most will have done some kind of training to transfer to horses.

The OP is in France however, which is much less regulated if I remember correctly - or it has changed since I was at college.
 
Yes Im in France dollyanna. I really don't know what regulation there is here for equine osteos. I do know that the French as a whole regard osteopaths as totally reliable and knowledgeable and they use them far far more than we ever would in the UK. For example, when I had a fall from my horse I was inundated with people telling me to go to the osteo. If I went anywhere, it would have been for an xray first! It was just bruising. Maybe I should have listened about my horse and gone straight to the osteo, then I would have saved myself 90 euros on the vet!! People here also believe that if you get cold, you will get 'a cold' so no one does anything if it rains. Primitive.

I would really like to know more about this condition so if anyone knows of information relating to problems with the 'cord' remaining after castration and associated conditions, anything really, please let me know. If there is a vet I could ring to chat about it that would be even better. I can't find anything myself yet and it's frustrating to be so much in the dark. Is my horse in pain? Will work improve it? How much work can he do? Could he be medicated? How rare is it? How risky is the op? Is it worth doing the op? Better prognosis? Is it a really specialised operation?

I haven't contacted my insurance company yet because I need more info and confirmation from a vet. I bet they won't pay though because it's really a pre existing condition, clearly there before I bought him. So another question is, is it worth paying out several thousand euros for this operation? Should I semi retire him? Didn't sleep a wink last night. :(

Thanks for all the replies too.
 
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