Dumbfounded after osteo visit.

Nakipa said:
This is a bit of a sweeping statement but I don't trust vets here when they say they are specialist equine vets. There is one very close to us who advertises as a specialist and I can tell you my dog has more equine veterinary knowledge than he does. I have had real issues with french vets and even taking one of mine to the specialist horsepital near Bordeaux where they just wouldn't listen to me and insisted that he had foot problems. He didn't have anything wrong with his feet but I spent thousands on treatment with them before they finally stopped injecting various parts of his lower leg.
There are some brilliant vets here but they are like rocking horse pooh and very hard to find.

Good luck.
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True!
 
Following on from my last post about the equestrian centre, I spoke to the owner this morning and told him I had rung a specialist veterinary centre in the UK to discuss the issue. He kept interrupting, shaking his head, but I kept on talking, he looked more and more cross and finally just said 'Caroline has to see, she's coming on Monday, we'll wait for her'. So there you are, not interested in hearing what anyone else has to say. If I have to leave this yard, there is NOWHERE else to go.
 
Frenchmade said:
Following on from my last post about the equestrian centre, I spoke to the owner this morning and told him I had rung a specialist veterinary centre in the UK to discuss the issue. He kept interrupting, shaking his head, but I kept on talking, he looked more and more cross and finally just said 'Caroline has to see, she's coming on Monday, we'll wait for her'. So there you are, not interested in hearing what anyone else has to say. If I have to leave this yard, there is NOWHERE else to go.
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Really sorry to hear this :(
You really seem to be between a rock and a hard place :(
I cannot offer any advice.....just support.
Best of luck

Bryndu
 
I am so frustrated for you, this is a horrid situation for you and your poor horse.

There are some very good equine vets here in France but they are so difficult to find. I consider myself incredibly lucky as I have a lovely small local practice with 2 very good equine vets. I also have an equine clinic with full facilities 3 hours away. It took me 3 years to work my way through all the rubbish and frankly dangerous vets and don't even get me started on the poor standard of some of the farriers.

I really hope that you can some sort of proper diagnosis or even a referral very soon. If you were in Brittany I could help :-(
 
One thing I have found works is to stick with one vet, again and again, until they get to know you...then they are more willing to listen to you! Not ideal, but needs must!
 
The vet came today!!! Hurray! She had a quick feel around and dismissed the diagnosis of the osteopath. No surprise there after what I've learned this week. Long story short, she did a proper examination this time, on the lunge and working in a straight line, with and without tack, and then agreed with me that there is a problem and proceeded to x-ray his hocks, stifle, and all along his back. Phew. She redeemed herself this time. I talked it over with her at length about what he's been like over the last two years. So now I have to wait until she sends the results of the x-rays. I mentioned kissing spines when she came out the first time, but she said unlikely because his pain was in the lumbar region. That puzzled me a bit. But now she is thinking that this is the likely problem. Cue googling/searching forum for kissing spines treatment/experiences. Relieved to be getting somewhere but deep down anxious that this won't have a good ending.
 
Glad you're finally getting somewhere. I felt stressed just reading your posts! I must say I really don't envy you. I remember the battle of trying to treat my RAO horse and trying to get everyone in France to understand what it is.

FWIW if you're ever desperate, there's an excellent vet practice who deal with horses in Castelnaudary.
 
Early days yet but if it is KS and he needs an operation they do the new style op that has a much shorter box rest recovery in Paris. Just something to keep in mind. Sorry it's worrying news but at least you're getting somewhere.

SpringArising would you mind PMing me the name of the Castelnaudary clinic? It's only half an hour from me and it might come in handy.
 
SpringArising said:
Glad you're finally getting somewhere. I felt stressed just reading your posts! I must say I really don't envy you. I remember the battle of trying to treat my RAO horse and trying to get everyone in France to understand what it is.

FWIW if you're ever desperate, there's an excellent vet practice who deal with horses in Castelnaudary.
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Thanks for your reply SpringArising. It means a lot that there are people who understand what it's like here! Castelnaudary is quite some distance but you never know. Thanks, and I'll keep it in mind.
 
Booboos said:
Early days yet but if it is KS and he needs an operation they do the new style op that has a much shorter box rest recovery in Paris. Just something to keep in mind. Sorry it's worrying news but at least you're getting somewhere.
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Thanks Booboos. Is that the op where they cut the ligaments? Done originally at Liverpool? Read about something like that this evening. Much much better recovery and less chance of recurrence. Or is it something different? If you can, can you send me a link to something to look at? Am googling Lol! Saving all these thoughts for the ex ray results. Trying to think positively. Will post when I get them.
 
Very unlikely to be due to a badly performed castration- worst case scenario is that there is some testicle that has been left behind (which can be easily confirmed by a blood test) it would have no effect on his movement, back pain or lameness. Get a second opinion on the back pain, often back pain is due to leg issues anyway, for example spavin in the hocks and cause or look like back pain. I'm quite surprised a vet referred to an osteopath (I refer to physios all the time) because it is a strange thing for an osteopath to say, so I would question his understanding.

As said before, part of testicle left behind can be confirmed by blood testing, but would not cause back pain.
 
Frenchmade said:
Thanks Booboos. Is that the op where they cut the ligaments? Done originally at Liverpool? Read about something like that this evening. Much much better recovery and less chance of recurrence. Or is it something different? If you can, can you send me a link to something to look at? Am googling Lol! Saving all these thoughts for the ex ray results. Trying to think positively. Will post when I get them.
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How come you don't have the x ray results? Are they so far behind that they are still using plates which have to be developed??

I do feel for you with your lack of decent horse vets.

By the by, I believe the ligament cutting operation was pioneered in Aberystwyth, by Cotts.
 
ycbm said:
How come you don't have the x ray results? Are they so far behind that they are still using plates which have to be developed??

.
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Not necessarily, but often mobile digital xray isn't very high resolution. I know of one vet who you need to go to the clinic if you want xrays of anything but feet and legs. I had to take my mare to a vet clinic as I wanted high quality xrays of her legs and feet.

The other vet I have used did need to take the plates back to the clinic.
 
Frenchmade said:
Thanks Booboos. Is that the op where they cut the ligaments? Done originally at Liverpool? Read about something like that this evening. Much much better recovery and less chance of recurrence. Or is it something different? If you can, can you send me a link to something to look at? Am googling Lol! Saving all these thoughts for the ex ray results. Trying to think positively. Will post when I get them.
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I had a horse with suspected KS two years ago so it's a while since I looked into it. It is the ligament op, much quicker recovery and good results. I don't remember who first did it but Google should give you a quick answer. I did contact the vets in the UK via e-mail and they were great, they looked at the x-Rays and history and suggested that they did not think it was KS. At the time my vet at Toulouse said they were doing the ligament surgery in Paris and she was happy to either refer me or liaise with them and get someone down to Toulouse to do it with her, but in the end it was not KS.

If it looks like KS it would be worth getting the vet to send you copies of the x-Rays so you can discuss the case with other vets, get her to inject the back to see if there is improvement (which helps confirm the KS diagnosis) and look at the availability of the ligament op near you.
 
As it's my birthday today, Im taking a day off from worrying about this and I will definitely reply to all the latest comments tomorrow! As I've had far too much wine to be logical and sensible today, I will refrain from commenting, and continue to enjoy the World Cup Dressage Freestyle at Olympia. I hope you are all enjoying it and your horses too. I gave mine a big kiss this morning when I woke him up. XXX
 
Well the vet emailed me the x rays this morning and her report. She found nothing. No abnormaities at all in hocks, stifle nor back. Her report states she believes the problem is 'deeper' than that and probably at the level of the vertebra, possibly the result of a fall or accident, and he's damaged his spine, but is more a discomfort from time to time, does not hurt him when he's at rest, and she couldn't see anything at all wrong with his 'locomotion' ie movement (so ruling out leg/feet issues) and for a TB it's quite good. I have a prescription for benamine, (anti inflammatory), coltramyl (muscle relaxant) and Equistro Flexadin UC II.(a collagen supplement) Just seen the price of the latter *faints. She said to investigate further or confirm this he would need to go to a specialist clinic and there's one in Normandy. (hahah!! Im near the south coast, that's on the north coast. )I am to lunge him, but without surcingle nor side reins and to build up his muscles which will help support his back and so relieve his pain. She says this hypothesis is consistent with him deteriorating with work and also showing a worsening with the use of side reins. The treatments are for a month in total, but she wants news after 15 days of treatment.

So I am not really any further forward in terms of a diagnosis. But we have ruled out a couple of things. I am going to follow her instructions to the letter on this, and then see what happens. She still hasn't ruled out a problem with the cervical spine. I think now, if the problem does not improve or comes back, then Im straight to the clinic in Aix for further investigations.
 
I'm glad it's not KS but sorry you don't have an answer. If you need a scintigraphy it's worth asking around. I sent my horse to Barcelona, three hours away and half the price of Paris, seven hours away.
 
Booboos said:
I'm glad it's not KS but sorry you don't have an answer. If you need a scintigraphy it's worth asking around. I sent my horse to Barcelona, three hours away and half the price of Paris, seven hours away.
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Actually that's interesting. Barcelona is five hours away, whereas Normandy is 12. Cheaper for transport at the very least. Hadn't thought of going to Spain!

What I do from now on will be dictated partly by cost. My insurance is only for hospitalisation. :(
 
Frenchmade said:
Actually that's interesting. Barcelona is five hours away, whereas Normandy is 12. Cheaper for transport at the very least. Hadn't thought of going to Spain!

What I do from now on will be dictated partly by cost. My insurance is only for hospitalisation. :(
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Oh balls :( I hope it's not as serious as it sounds, is there any way of getting a thermal image done?

For anyone interested CPTrayes had a horse who had the ligament surgery, she did write a few threads about it.
 
Just thinking outside the box - could you get a thermal adaptor for your phone? The one for the iPhone is about £200. You could mail images to the specialist vet rather than travelling?
 
My horse has just had surgery ,one week ago.
So I have been through all this recently .
The latest thinking is that the results from ligament snipping are not looking so good long term my horse has had the newest reshaping technique of six dorsal spines done standing .
He one week post op wound is neat there's no external disfigurement he's rolling and lying down happily he's doing his carrots stretches happily and passive stretches rien backing etc.
He was three days in horsepital post OP and he's been comfortable throughout I was very very worried about putting him through it but it's been much much easier on him than I was fearing .
The only issue we have had is a slight infection/ irritation of his sheath caused I think by the vigorous washing with hibiscrub they gave it before putting in the catheter ,the vets dealing with that its not a big problem .
 
Mince Pie said:
Oh balls :( I hope it's not as serious as it sounds, is there any way of getting a thermal image done?

For anyone interested CPTrayes had a horse who had the ligament surgery, she did write a few threads about it.
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I did think it might be worth looking at thermal imaging, and I will look the posts you've mentioned. Thanks. Whether I can get it done here is another question! I'll look into it.
 
EQUIDAE said:
Just thinking outside the box - could you get a thermal adaptor for your phone? The one for the iPhone is about £200. You could mail images to the specialist vet rather than travelling?
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Im afraid Im in the dark ages as far as phones go. I have an old Nokia, not a smartphone. Would it work on a Samsung Android tablet I wonder?? Going to check. Ii can see that being really useful, if not now, in the future! Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Goldenstar said:
My horse has just had surgery ,one week ago.
So I have been through all this recently .
The latest thinking is that the results from ligament snipping are not looking so good long term my horse has had the newest reshaping technique of six dorsal spines done standing .
He one week post op wound is neat there's no external disfigurement he's rolling and lying down happily he's doing his carrots stretches happily and passive stretches rien backing etc.
He was three days in horsepital post OP and he's been comfortable throughout I was very very worried about putting him through it but it's been much much easier on him than I was fearing .
The only issue we have had is a slight infection/ irritation of his sheath caused I think by the vigorous washing with hibiscrub they gave it before putting in the catheter ,the vets dealing with that its not a big problem .
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It's wonderful to hear your horse is doing so well. Unfortunately (?) my vet doesn't think it's kissing spines. Almost wish it was, at least there would be a way forward. Hope yours continues to recover well and gives you many years of pleasure.
 
The vet has emailed me all the xrays so I can send them to another vet for a second opinion if I wish. I have ordered all the meds she suggested, or at least most of them, and I'll give that a try. I really don't hold out much hope that it will work on what ever is wrong but it def won't do any harm.

One of the products is Equisto Flexadin UCll which costs the princely sum of 112.00 euros online for 600g. It contains MSM and collagen. I think it's a French product. Does anyone know if there is an English equivalent? Because I've found that usually things are cheaper in the UK. I am in the UK over Christmas so could order it to be delivered and bring it back with me. All in all, the meds are going to cost 250 euros!! EEk! For one month. It's not a long term solution!
 
Are you sure Equisto has collagen in it? are you translating from french to english? I have never heard of any equine product with collagen in it especially as it might be animal based and horses are veggies. But I could be wrong! Could it be chondroitin? If so, two of the top joint supplements which vets recommend are Synequin and Cosequin.

Synequin contains the following and costs £128 for 1000g:
Each 10g scoop contains:
Chondroitin Sulphate (95% pure) 2000mg
Glucosamine HCL (99% pure) 5000mg
N. Acetyl D. Glucosamine (99% pure) 500mg
Ascorbic Acid 570mg
Zinc Sulphate 360mg

Cosequin contains similar. Cost: £149 .99 for 700g.

So both of these are not cheap. However, there are other products which are cheaper but probably not so effective.
 
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