Dummy Rider for breaking in - ideas please

I think they cause more damage then good to be honest far better just getting horse prepared enough so you can trust it to get on yourself. I knew someone who sent her horse to be broken in and they used a dummy and horse had big reaction to it and bronced so much dummy ended up down by its belly and he kicked out like mad at it, and it took weeks to get him so he would have a rider on his back.
 
They don't tend to do any good, if you are hesitant about backing your horse you could ask an experienced friend for some help or send your horse away to somewhere with a good reputation.
 
Heres one I made, even put a sand bag in it:

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Although mine wasn't for breaking a horse it was for re-habilitating
 
I always taught my youngsters to stand and be groomed quietly when tied up in their stable, I stand on a bale so that I am higher than them and sometimes slip a leg over, also my body, never had one react, also I taught my foal to walk in the yard while mum looked over the stable door, and put a roller and a saddle on, while walking, not all in one day of course.
Gradually extended the walks till the M and F were out of sight but still within calling distance, we used to stop and have a sniff at lots of new things, she is still as brave today as then, and is well used to dogs running around, having a lunge rope round her leg and not panicking, stroked all over with a schooling whip etc.
As a yearling, the filly was turned out in the arena with a driving harness on, a little buck and that was it. No point in waiting till they are three when you can do so much without stress or weight, I used to also give all three of mine, the mare , the yearling and an unbroken 4year old little loose jumping circuits, all together, only the height of a small log, or a few trot poles, but they all seemed to enjoy the thrill , no refusals, they loved it.
My first attempt at building a jump lane went a bit awry when I tried to use it with a four year old, he was supposed to stop at the end and turn, but instead he did a 90 degree and popped over the side barrier, which was about a foot higher than the little poles he had tried.
 
angelish said:
thats just made me spit diet coke all over the comp :D
what is wrong with her back :p how often has she hit the deck bless her she don't look very well lol
sorry op i have no interest in here but love this dummy :D
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lol it was a he! john paul! the head made it flop., i had a arab that had previousley been mistreated and just wouldnt accept a rider, so john payl got the job of staying on the sod he worked to!
 
A rider would never feel like a 'dead weight' in the same way as a dummy does... or at least I would hope you could absorb a horse's movement before attempting to back one.

Reading this thread does worry me... there seem to be a lot more numpties out there ruining horses than people with common sense producing them properly. I'm not surprised there are so many dangerous, clueless and ill mannered horses being passed around.
 
cruiseline said:
I agree and actually they can do far more harm than good. If those 'dummies' slip and spook your horse, the flopping around all over the place during the spook will make matters 100 x worse.

I suggest you contact a reputable person who is knowledgeable at backing young horses and get the job done properly, first time round.

The old saying "it takes 5 minutes to ruin a horse, but a life time to correct it" is very true.
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Totally agree with this... making a dummy is easy; but attaching it safely and using it correctly is a lot more difficult.
 
I'm going to go slightly against the grain on this one! But a dummy, if made/used/attached correctly in the right hands and in the right cases can be useful. My current horse in for re-schooling (avec every issue possible) was introduced to a lightweight 'dummy' as part of de-sensitising to rider height above him, the dummy was secured well to him so it couldn't possibly slip, it was also thrown over him and all around him as part of the de-sensitising. This has been the only horse we've ever had who you wouldn't of put a rider up on without starting with the dummy first, however once used to the dummy a rider was gradually introduced, it worked like a stepping stone to bridge the gap and help the issues without trying to kill anyone in the process! lol
However I wouldn't use one to back an unbacked horse, if in doubt send to a experienced person who deals with this, as others have said, it is so easy to ruin a horse, and then they become so much harder to fix.
 
To be honest threads like these are massive helps, And just because some people know better than others, it presents loads of opportunities for people like me to learn from. :)
 
cruiseline said:
I agree and actually they can do far more harm than good. If those 'dummies' slip and spook your horse, the flopping around all over the place during the spook will make matters 100 x worse.

I suggest you contact a reputable person who is knowledgeable at backing young horses and get the job done properly, first time round.

The old saying "it takes 5 minutes to ruin a horse, but a life time to correct it" is very true.
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ditto this, absolutely.

Please please think very very carefully about putting such a thing on a horse. i did so once, taking advice from an 'expert'. it was 1 of my youngsters, a very sensitive big horse who i'd backed without any problems but he was still ridiculously tense. (in retrospect, i think it was the saddle, which had been fitted by a "master saddler" so i never suspected it. big mistake.)
i put a 'dumb jockey' on him made of pillows and took him out to lunge. he rushed, the pillows moved, he bolted, got away from me, went through 3 sets of post and rails and flat out up the drive. My guardian angel must have been working his butt off that day because the horse careered against the fencing up the drive and it snapped the girth so the whole lot came off, and my v kind neighbour ran (i was totally out of puff by this point) and managed to intercept the horse before he got to the road.
it was the most terrifying experience of my life with horses. if the thing hadn't come off that horse would have run until he died.

fwiw i took him to my vet for a check-over (in fact, he'd damaged his sacroiliac in his panic and flight etc) and told him what had happened, and said i wished i'd put it on in the stable for a while first... at which point the vet said that would probably have been even worse - he'd attended a horse recently where the owner had done just that, and the horse panicked so badly it ran into the stable wall with enough force to break its neck. :( :( :(

a good experienced horse-backer will do him right. i've never had 1 bronc when a rider's first put on. if you've done your prep work properly it's just another thing you ask them to put up with, like having a rug on, having a saddle on, etc etc.

sorry for the essay but i'd hate another horse and owner to go through what we went through.
 
Iv got that Richard maxwell book from birth to backing and the statement of if you need a dummy rider then you aren't the right person for to job is spot on really. If the work building up to the actually backing is done well it should go smoothly most of the time.
 
We have a dummy rider at work, it is a set of overalls stuffed with hay with boots and a hat attached. It weighs a bleedin' ton and is called ET.
ET was made to help break in a very tricky horse, who had been 'broken in' before we got him, our boss refused to let anyone get on him as she thought it was far too dangerous. It did it's job at the time and he is now a lovely riding horse, but in the 5 years since it was made it has done nothing but gather dust in the tack room, provide a nice house for a family of mice and be a 'clown' for our circus themed PC camp.
We have broken in 7 horses since then, and not used it once, despite two of them being rather difficult (one of whom likes to 'attack' - teeth and hooves flying everywhere!). It just wasn't necessary.

I have to agree with this...

'If you have to use a dummy rider before breaking in your horse, then you are unlikely to be the right person for the job.'
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We probably weren't the right people to take on the original horse's problems, but there seemed little option at the time and thankfully it worked.
 
In over 50 years of backing young horses I have only ever used a dumb jockey on one very messed up horse that had supposedly been broken. That we made up by welding a X to the saddle so that none of it would slip.

As others have said, it is not the weight it is the shadow behind and above that sets a young horse off bucking. Do the ground work and get the horse standing alongside a tall mounting block and fiddle with the saddle, its mane and head whilst it is stood alongside the block ( you can use four small bales, two high but with extra length) you can lean into and over the horse easily, get it use to you weight bearing in a stirrup and when it is happy with that and relaxed with you being higher than him, just get on.
 
OK I think I will abort the idea. As I said she isnt a youngster and we dont know the history that's why I am treating her differently as she obviously does have issues. Her owner is happy for her to be a field ornament if she doesnt take to it but I think we will just take things slowly as we think she has been abused in the past and that might be the cause of her violent reactions.
The dummy idea does seem to have more negatives than positives so I will probably forget it but I do appreciate the pictures people posted!
Thanks all. x
 
Years ago when I was backing one of our section D mares I used a pillowcase of something or other on her back as she was pretty sensitive I felt the need to put weight on her before I ventured onto leaning on her etc. I just tied it some how to the saddle, so many years ago I cannot remember. Totally worth fashioning something yourself though, that sounds very expensive!
It was just on one occasion just so as she felt the added weight before I braved it on, she turned out just fine btw
 
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We have just re-broken a pretty aggressive horse, we assume he has been abused at some point as he will attack if he feels threatened.
It's taken since October for him to accept us and But he is now being ridden under saddle. I would think the dummy would make him worse as objects like that are likely to trigger a huge negative reaction from him.
We have spent gaining his trust, found his favourite person who has then spent months 'faffing' with him, until she could tack him up with no problems. Then more time jumping up and down leaning over him, getting on and off and just constantly repeating until he relaxed. Then then a few steps and gradually built up.
He went for his first hack today, cantered across a field no issues, he will also walk trot and canter in the school quite happily!
The key with him is to keep away from him unless you are confident and relaxed around him and never walk too close to him holding a brush/fork/bucket/whip!!! :D
 
I think that like most tools they can do a lot of harm or a lot of good depending on the reason for use and most importantly the person using them. In the routine backing of a well-adjusted, well prepared young horse then I don't think there should be any need to use a dummy rider if you've done all the preparatory work right. That's not to say I don't think they can have their uses in horses who for whatever reason dislike the idea of having something moving about on their backs. I think that you would need to be intelligent about it and make doubly, triply sure that the dummy will not slip from the saddle and end up under the horse's belly (personally I reckon I'd attach the dummy to the saddle without it being on the horse and give the whole thing a good shake around and if anything slipped go back to the drawing board). Another possible use that I can think of is maybe using one in a controlled manner in desensitizing horses that freak out when their rider falls off. But like I said really should not need one for a normal backing.
 
nikkiportia said:
I think I read in a book of Richard Maxwells recently.....

'If you have to use a dummy rider before breaking in your horse, then you are unlikely to be the right person for the job.'

And I agree with that and JG on this.
You don't need one :)
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^^^ this. It's in his excellent book 'Birth to Backing' - well worth a read. Sorry if this has already been said.... It's a long post to read from beginning to end.
 
Oo er - just read the above, the thread is 2 years old!! I suspect that one way or another this horse has already been backed long ago :-)
 
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