Dun or Buckskin?

[showpony]

Can someone try to explain the difference!!! - mini me's pony has a dorsal stripe which the new boy doesn't have so would that make him Buckskin?

Pic of my new boy below & a couple of my friends and myself are trying to figure out what colour he is

 

[fuze]

The dorsal stripe is a good indicator.

Dorsal stripe = dun.
No dorsal stripe = buckskin.

 

[s4sugar]

Buckskin.
BTW Buckskins can show what appears to be a dorsal stripe but this fellow is clearly buckskin.

 

[showpony]

Great thanks!

Buckskin.
BTW Buckskins can show what appears to be a dorsal stripe but this fellow is clearly buckskin.

 

[Double_choc_lab]

Being of the over 50 generation we only had skewbald, piebald, dun, spotted, bay, chestnut etc etc. None of this tobiano, buckskin, "coloured". Life was so much simpler then.

 

[Kallibear]

You can't always tell from the colour. It's a genetic thing. Dun if a specific gene overlayed on a base colour, like grey is. Buckskin is caused by a combo of different gene. They come out looking fairly similar. Very few breeds have the dun gene (highlands and shetlands only I think in this country) so he's most likely buckskin. Connies and welshes do NOT have the dun gene although they have lots of buckskins and are incorrectly called so.

 

[Gloi]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10643413@N04/9835286726/

To see the difference from dun look at this bay dun pony here. She has the dorsal stripe and leg barring behind her knees. You can see how much the lighter colour of her coat also goes into the mane and the top of her tail which also has a stripe down it. Another identifying feature is her face where you can see that the front of her face is so much darker than the rest of her body.

 

[tallyho!]

This was done not so long ago and the thread is worth a read... just search "dun"...

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The dorsal stripe is a good indicator.

Dorsal stripe = dun.
No dorsal stripe = buckskin.

No it's not that simple as the sooty gene can give buckskins a dorsal stripe.

Better indicators for Dun are cobwebbing on the face and leg bars. Of course true Duns come in Red Dun and Black Dun too, not just the Bay Dun that looks similar to Buckskin. That's without getting onto combos like Dunalinos etc...

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Cream

 

[honetpot]

I have a scratty welsh hill pony that is supposed to be part-bred arab and he has the zebra stripes, dorsal strips and as his winter coat is coming an wither stripe with black mane and tail, but as he has a grey gene he is greying out. I would love to now where he gets it from as he's such a fine build but he must have butch native somewhere.

 

[weebarney]

Dun simples Im not over 50 but i dont know where all these gazillion new colours have come from over the last couple of years.

 

[Casey76]

The new colours have come around with the geater understanding of colour genetics, plus the identification of gene modifiers which can distinguish between similar looking colurs.

 

[weebarney]

I dont see the point if you need to know what the genetics are just to tell what colour it is. Surely if it looks a certain colur than it is that colour?

 

[Kallibear]

It matters if you're breeding and have an interest in colour. There's a big difference from what you might get out of a dun mare compared to a buckskin. Or how you'd 'make' a buckskin foal.

 

[doriangrey]

I dont see the point if you need to know what the genetics are just to tell what colour it is. Surely if it looks a certain colur than it is that colour?

Some genes that come with certain colours are fatal. I might not have expressed that properly but here's an explanation. If you are breeding for colour it's important to know.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC339559/

 

[DressageCob]

What about this horse? This is my friend's ID/TB
http://cacphotography.zenfolio.com/p597219059/h690ee1d0#h690ee1d0
http://cacphotography.zenfolio.com/p597219059/h659a73f8#h659a73f8

I don't really understand the difference between the two. This horse has a very faint dorsal stripe and his sandy hair goes into in mane and the top of his tail. A lot of people think he has Fjord in him but he's apparently just ID/TB Thanks

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I dont see the point if you need to know what the genetics are just to tell what colour it is. Surely if it looks a certain colur than it is that colour?

To a certain extent. I can generally see the difference between a buckskin and bay dun pretty quickly - they aren't *exactly* the same, just similar.

However if you have the horse's colour on the passport, isn't it sensible for it to be accurate?

Helenalbert - I can't see your photos, even when I open them in a new tab.

 

[s4sugar]

There is no dun in Irish Drafts nor in TBs and he could be either from his colouring. Is his pedigree complete? It is possible for a horse to be both dun & buckskin.

This is my 4yo who is heterozygous for OLWS (tested as a foal as his dam is frame overo and we were having other tests done) He is a gelding but a filly with his colouring might well get put to an overo stallion with the sad results as linked above.

 

[Gloi]

What about this horse? This is my friend's ID/TB
http://cacphotography.zenfolio.com/p597219059/h690ee1d0#h690ee1d0
http://cacphotography.zenfolio.com/p597219059/h659a73f8#h659a73f8

I don't really understand the difference between the two. This horse has a very faint dorsal stripe and his sandy hair goes into in mane and the top of his tail. A lot of people think he has Fjord in him but he's apparently just ID/TB Thanks

I'd say dun. Look at the barring on the inside of his hocks and the darker mask of his face. Where it would come from if he is ID*TB I've no idea, I'd suspect there is something else in there as well.
You'd maybe need to test to be sure.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Yes, you can have a horse with both the Dun and the Cream (causes Buckskin/Palomino/Smoky black etc...) gene.

I can see the photos now and agree with Gloi.

 

[DressageCob]

Thanks folks. I don't know his full pedigree- my friend bought him at an auction 14 years ago and was just told that breeding. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some connie in him or something like that. He's only 15hh and quite stocky

Thanks again

 

[Meowy Catkin]

He wouldn't have got the dun gene from a connie - they don't have it.

 

[DressageCob]

He wouldn't have got the dun gene from a connie - they don't have it.

Shows how little I know I'm clueless then

 

[honetpot]

Connemaras as far as I know do not have a 'dun' gene they have the dilute gene, to produce buckskin from a bay or palomino from chestnut, but I have never seen one with leg bars. The dilute gene was almost bred out as they used to cull cremellos although a lot of dilute gene carriers such as Grianagh Petrus, and Glenayre Mystical Bobby have turned out to be good jumpers, or produced good jumping stock.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I've often wondered - as I've never seen a chestnut or chestnut based - connie, has the chestnut gene been bred out of the breed? If yes, the double dilutes (two copies of Cream) would have been perlinos.

Does anyone know?

 

[showpony]

Lol, just back from yard and reading the replies! Jeepers this colouring lark is alot more complicated than i thought.

 

[honetpot]

Chestnut is a very rare colour now, the grey gene is so dominant that it masks all the base colours. This is a good basic article about dilute genes.
http://ashbrookstud.ie/base-single-double-dilute-coat-colours-explained/

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Greys don't start out grey though, so I wonder if anyone who breeds connies has ever had a chestnut/grey foal?

 

[daughter's groom]

Whatever you call it , I find it a very attractive colour personally.