Dutch Gags?

minesadouble

minesadouble

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Was reading a post yesterday where a couple of people said the bottom ring was not the most severe? Can someone please explain why?We recently bought an old BSJA pony who has always gone on the bottom ring of a dutch gag - I hate this bit but daughters instructor advised not to change as pony is v. strong and fizzy and is 18 and settled in the bit. We recently moved the rein onto the second ring thinking we were being kinder? So is this not the case?
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I have always been under the impression that the bottom ring is the strongest and the top is the mildest!!!

It applies more pressure on the poll in order to lower the head and stop the horse from fighting.

I always ride Jed on the second ring, for hacking, xc, showjumping.
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I'm sure the bottom ring is the most severe as it provides the most leverage. Saying otherwise is surely like saying the longer the shank on a weymouth the softer it will be, it just defies physics! Longer shank/lower ring means more leverage for the rider which mean the same pulling strength provides much more pressure.

I'd be very interested in how this could not be the case, I would ride on the first ring if the pony is not too strong. When I got my mare 4 years ago I was told she would be unstoppable in anything other than an American gag, she is now ridden in a Myler comfort snaffle and we have decent brakes she was 18 and is now 22, still insane and fizzy but has learned a little respect
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Ive just cahnged my forward going HW cob into one (2nd ring). He was leaning and tanking off in a snaffle and at first i was a little apprehensive in case he hated it. Turns out he is so much lighter i can school with what feels like a loose contact, i feel more confident in riding him more from the leg as i can stop if i get a bit too much oomph!
 
I've never used a Dutch Gag but remember reading somewhere that two reins, ideally, should be used so the bottom, most severe, rein only comes in to use when necessary
 
the correct fitting of a Dutch Gag is it should have a leather thong on the top ring behind the horses face, a rein on the snaffle ring and another on either the second or third ring..for differing "severity" .....
 
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the correct fitting of a Dutch Gag is it should have a leather thong on the top ring behind the horses face, a rein on the snaffle ring and another on either the second or third ring..for differing "severity" .....

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yes,i have read this and agree but i`ve never seen it in RL.
 
I can only imagine someone said it wasn't as severe as I guess (in theory) if on the bottom ring the poll pressure would come into play sooner and therefore there would be less pulling on the mouth itself? That's the only way i could possibly see it.

Personally I am not a fan of the word 'harsh' as i think each horse differs and isit better to have a simpler bit and haul on the horse's mouth to stop or to have a more complex bit that puts the pressure elsewhere? I have 3 ring gag and, although used to use the bottom ring for jumping/x-country I now have it on a 2nd from bottom. My horse is well schooled and I do dressage in ordinary snaffles (rubber D ring at the mo but think going to try somethig else). However, he tends to be heavy on his forehand and, when excited jumping he is strong and I have tried many different bits but always come back to the 3 ring as he just seems to go better in it. He is lighter in my hand, doesn't fight and goes in a better, balanced outline.

I guess each to their own. Whatever works best for you and your horse I think is the approach to take!
 
I have ridden Tazz in one for the last ten years, I don't like the bit but she goes well in it and it was the only thing she seemed happy in......I have it on the second ring, if she is having 'one of her days' where she pulls like mad and gets very gobby, I move it down to the bottom. As far as I'm conserned, the bottom is the most servre as we only need this when she gets to strong. Hope this makes some kind of sense! lol
 
i think it was me that said that the 2nd ring was more severe
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the bottom ring provides the most leverage, but not as much pressure on the bars of the mouth, as the first immediate action it does when pulled is poll pressure.
the second ring doesnt provide as much leverage, but it still has quite a lot. it does provide quite a lot of pressure on the bars of the mouth as well. when pulled, the immediate first action is poll AND pressure on the mouth, making it more sever.

imo anyway, and this is what i think it means that it is more severe. it really depends on the horse - some react more to poll pressure than pressure on mouth which makes 3rd ring more severe. generally though 2nd ring is more severe
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also, it depends what you're doing. I ride my little cob on the third ring, if I am out hacking with the kids either on or off lead reins, because, you know, he can be strong, but isn't usually. We toddle along with v little contact, he's as light as a feather as opposed to reinforced concrete in a normal snaffle, and 99 times out of 100, I don't even need to use the darn bit!
But the 100th time, with two littles on ponies to consider? Better safe than sorry.
 
I disagree - this most is most severe on the bottom ring, the poll action is maximised and its more than capable of exterting pressure on the bars.

Long shanks always exets more pressure - from your definition you'd say an american gag is milder than a universal and this is simply not the case.
 
Err was that from someone using the bottom ring per chance?

Not that there is anything wrong with using the bottom ring, in fact I'd far rather see someone using a strong bit lightly than hauling on an ineffective mild bit.
 
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only sharing what i was told!

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well, they are ill informed...

now you know, you can tell them!
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Thanks JM - thats exactly how i use one and if only i had a £1 for the number of times i have sacrificed a breastplate strap to someone out of control out hunting to put across the top rings...
 
Thankies everyone - I simply couldn't see how middle ring coulds be more severe. As far as strap do you mean almost like a curb chain? Instructor did this but said don't use out hacking in case pony suddenly violently objects.
 
Yes - you can buy an american curb which just buckles on (NS and we sell them, but not that common). Otherwise you need to find a handy looking strap.

Actually the middle versus bottom ring debate is interesting (have just re-read sustainable dressage). The middle ring is "quicker" to act on the bars, but will never exert the sheer force. So you can say the middle is to an extent sharper, but no where near as strong and severe due to forces.
 
im quite sure bottom ring most severe.

I was told a jointed dutch gag didnt give much more control than a hanging snaffle n isnt very severe but a straight mouth servere but i dont really think this is true as i can actually control the beast in a jointed gag.
 
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