Ebay help - buyer damaged my saddle!!!

laura-c said:
I honestly have no idea. She was happy with the item at first!!

This was the first message I had from her when she receieved it - I got a POD for it so messaged her to check she had it.

hi.. yes it has turned up.. i might have a small problem , i measured it as it looks the same size as my 17 1/2 and yours measures 17 1/2 and i was expecting a 17 inch saddle as my one is too big... did you have anything to confirm its size when you bought it ?? as they run up big the isabelle werth saddles so if you may have thought it was a 17 inch when you usually ride in a 17 1/2 I am still at work so cannot definately put it against my saddle but the tape measure from the gold disk to the middle of the back of the saddle is definately 17 1/2 ...Any thoughts from your end

and then she sent this just after, without me responding to the above

hi againi have taken a photo of me measuring it to send to my saddler she will know exactly what size, i do hope its a 17 inch as its just what i need... i can send you the photo if you send me your email address or mobile number so you can see what you think.its definately a 17 1/2 to the middle of the cantle and the 17" comes in not quite at the top... as they come up large will measure my one when i get home as it still has the sticker on it so can definately compare..Speak later, and if you are happy for me to call you re this it would be easier .Thanks again

So I said

Hi glad you got the saddle ok.I bought it second hand as 17" fitted by a reputable saddler 18 months ago. It fit my mare who was 17", she also had a 17" GP Kent and Masters and a 17" Prestige Golden Star so I would have had no reason to believe it was any bigger than that as it fit her perfectly.Hopefully your saddler can confirm this for you, I am confident that it is a 17" as it was bought as such by myself.

she then sends this

hi, i have got the tape measure out and measured it against my wintec isabell saddle As a comparison, my saddle is 17 1/2 to the back of the cantle and i have the original sticker on the saddle so am 100% sure of its size and the tape measure confirms this , i did the same measurements on your saddle and it comes up 17 1/2 and not 17 " as listed, i appreciate it fitted your horse who uses 17" saddles but as i told you we have a 15HH pony this 1/2 an inch makes it no good for me but possibly could have managed if it had been for a horse. i am more than happy to send you photos of both my saddle and its sticker and your saddle to show you that i am being honest which is why i have over 490 items bought and sold with 100% feedback !!!! i was also unhappy with the fact it has a rip on the right stirrup holder which was not listed or a photo shown , i am happy with the overall wear of the saddle which is quite usual for a 2nd hand saddle but not a 21/2 cm tear which will just get bigger and bigger..I am so sorry because you have put in so much effort to get the saddle to me as soon as possible and was very well packaged..I wish to return this saddle to you for a refund, i am happy to send you any photo's of the measurements and the rip too, i am happy to help with the return costs as a show of good will..i look forwards to hearing from you again

So it was only after all these messages that she has changed her tune and said that it is ripped!! :mad::mad:
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Looking at this correspondence it actually sounds as if the buyer wasn't happy from the start as she bought the saddle in good faith that it was a 17" saddle and presumably mentioned to you during the buying process that any bigger than 17" wouldn't be suitable for her horse. It has now allegedly transpired that it is a 17.5" saddle and whether you knew or not if this turns out to be true your listing will have inaccurately described the saddle size.

Her last message sounded to me like she would have been happy to overlook the rip had the saddle been the right size but that the saddle is no use to her as it's the wrong size for her horse.

I'm sorry you're in such a *****ty situation but you may just have to refund the buyer and chalk it up to experience on this occasion.
 
The saddle was £250 plus £20 postage, which may not be a lot of money to you, but I work hard (two jobs!) to keep my horses and this is half a months livery. Plus it is also the principle. I sent out a sound saddle, in good faith that it was in good condition and am getting completely ripped off!

The problem is I would have reluctantly given a refund if it was just the size issue in dispute.

The fact that she probably didn't think the saddle would fall into the category of "significantly not as described SNAD" by only being out by a couple of millimetres (she has sent me a photo of the measurement, which shows it between 17 and 17.5!!!) so has therefore damaged it herself in order to gain a refund.

My trouble is that I would now be left with a worthless damaged and ripped saddle (she has sent me a photo of the rip and it's huge!) if I refunded her, which is not on at all.
 
I'd question whether that technique is accurate enough to determine the difference between 17/17.5" seat wise tbh..
 
I found your listing and the saddle does look to be in good used condition as described with ok photos of both sides.

What is the buyers feedback left for others like?
 
Ah, well, here's a thing. I actually considered buying your saddle. I noticed something a little odd on the rhs stirrup keeper, around and above the attachment point nearest the front of the saddle - is that where the buyer claims the damage is? If it is can I suggest you have a look at your original pictures, sorry to be the bad apple in the bunch:(

If it does prove to be wrong in your pictures and it comes back to you PM me with a revised price to reflect the issue and we'll see if we can do a deal - if that suits you.
 
That is crazy, most people would agree that Wintec's run slightly bigger anyway - I bought my 16.5" knowing it would feel like a 17". Def get the serial number checked by Wintec.
 
Ask how she measured the saddle as measuring from the Nail to the middle of cantel is only a indication of seat size, nail heads can easily be placed in different places on different makes and make mm's difference to the seat size if it is a wintec get the serial and contact them they keep excellent records !
The rip does sound fishy......... why she din't mention it 1st ....keep fighting she can only return it to you as not as described if it's in the same condition as you sent it
 
jemima*askin said:
Ah, well, here's a thing. I actually considered buying your saddle. I noticed something a little odd on the rhs stirrup keeper, around and above the attachment point nearest the front of the saddle - is that where the buyer claims the damage is? If it is can I suggest you have a look at your original pictures, sorry to be the bad apple in the bunch:(

If it does prove to be wrong in your pictures and it comes back to you PM me with a revised price to reflect the issue and we'll see if we can do a deal - if that suits you.
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Hmmm I'm not sure what you can see in the photos :confused: There is tarnishing to the badges but no holes! She is saying that the right stirrup leather holder is ripped, with a large hole where the stirrup holder would be attached and has sent me a photo to show this! The tear is about 3cm long and is more like a hole than a tear, it can be clearly shown in the photo she has sent me as it has been obviously been tugged and pulled away from the flap. It is far too obvious a hole for me to have covered up in any way by any sort of trick photography or anything - the hole is clear as daylight!! The saddle definitely did not have this before I sent it, I know that as I cleaned it before sending it. It did have wear marks and tarnishing to the wintec badges that were there when I bought the item second hand from my saddler, as I had mentioned in the listing. It did not have any holes or damage that would affect the use of the saddle whatsoever. The saddle now has a 3cm tear/hole in it so it will be worthless to me or yourself unfortunately.
 
I didn't say you'd used trick photography! My guess is that if you check your photos carefully you might see it was there originally, and she has enlarged it. What I can see is a slightly curved mark right at the front of the front of the attachment point.

If you don't want to check your original photos that's your choice. At least your pictures show that the large hole there now wasn't there when you took the pics. I could still use the saddle, entirely up to you whether you want to sell it to me if it's returned. I was merely attempting to offer you a way out with less loss.:)
 
Depending on the cost it might be worth wile just getting the flap replaced either by the buyer if they decide it fits their horse and you could offer them something towards it to keep the piece or by yourself and resell

Poss a silly question but has the buyer actually tried it on their horse?
 
- on another point- why did you pay for the delivery? the buyer always pays postage or picks it up?
when I sold a saddle I did pick up only, in part due to postage cost but also so they couldn't do exactly this! better to see second hand items in the flesh to avoid these issues, but obviously that isn't always practical.
however, it hasn't lost all value, it sounds fixable
 
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See what you see, maybe it's my eyes. The stirrup keeper should be inserted neatly into a slot just large enough to hold its width, shown ably by the insertion into the top slot. On the marked up image I've tried to show the start and finish of the "feature" I saw, if you look on the unmarked picture you may get a clearer view but there is "something" on either side of the stirrup keeper insertion slot.

As I said earlier, I was interested buying the saddle and had examined it very closely.

I suspect those small marks are the start of a hole that the OP didn't notice and that the buyer has pulled at them and made the hole larger:(
 
jemima*askin said:
2q1s6bk.jpg

dpddhc.jpg


See what you see, maybe it's my eyes. The stirrup keeper should be inserted neatly into a slot just large enough to hold its width, shown ably by the insertion into the top slot. On the marked up image I've tried to show the start and finish of the "feature" I saw, if you look on the unmarked picture you may get a clearer view but there is "something" on either side of the stirrup keeper insertion slot.

As I said earlier, I was interested buying the saddle and had examined it very closely.

I suspect those small marks are the start of a hole that the OP didn't notice and that the buyer has pulled at them and made the hole larger:(
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Just looks like a loose thread to me (though the pictures aren't that clear). I have a saddle the same as this and mine has a loose thread in the same place that I think would look like that if you took a photo from that distance in that light.
 
It's interesting looking at the pictures that it is possible that the 17" measurement may have been taken form the centre of the pommel to the centre of the cantle rather than the correct method for measuring a cutback head saddle from the rivet to the centre of the cantle which might possibly return 17½"
 
Is there a mark or anything at all on the saddle that only you would know about, or have you got a note of the serial number? I wonder if she's got a damaged saddle that she plans to send back to you in place of the one you sent her, so could you prove it's not your saddle if this is the case?

If I was in her position, the first thing I would have mentioned was the damage before getting into a brawl about the size - I wouldn't care WHAT size it was if I'd bought an unmarked saddle which arrived damaged!

There's something seriously fishy going on here!
 
I've had a similar problem recently re: saddle sizing. I bought a thorowgrow which was advertised as a 16.5 seat, just what i wanted... contacted the seller to see if they would do a Buy It Now price for me, which they did straight away. When it arrived it turns out they measure from the center of the pommel and its infact an 18-18.5 seat. This is completely worthless to me as my biggest pony is 14hh with a short back... BUT the seller was so good re communication, description of saddle (apart from size) and giving me a BIN price that i've left positive feed back and am looking to re sell the saddle my self... The way I looked at it was that this person obviously made an honest mistake, and why cause a problem when I can re-sell....
 
jemima*askin said:
See what you see, maybe it's my eyes. The stirrup keeper should be inserted neatly into a slot just large enough to hold its width, shown ably by the insertion into the top slot. On the marked up image I've tried to show the start and finish of the "feature" I saw, if you look on the unmarked picture you may get a clearer view but there is "something" on either side of the stirrup keeper insertion slot.
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Have to say, I see what you see too. It looks like the keeper has torn a little underneath. Sorry OP, I think the buyer has you over a barrel, particularly if the measurement is incorrect. When you get it back and re-advertise it make sure you include a picture of your actually measuring the saddle and point out any marks or tears.
 
i have both a 17inch issabella and a 17"5 and there is a massive difference in size between the two :confused:
the 17in is a much , much smaller saddle in all ways , it fitted a 14'2 perfectly but looked really stupid (as it was so small) on my 16"3
the 17" is very much a "pony" (up to 15"2) saddle and i really cannot understand how buyer or seller cannot tell what size it is :confused:

there should be a serial no on it as said above , i'd get that and check what size it is
 
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