Effects of being a broodmare on soundness as riding horse

Caol Ila

Caol Ila

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Most academic journally title of a thead, ever....Sorry.

A friend of mine is in the market for a new horse, and she has seen one she likes, who is 14 and has been a broodmare at a well-regarded stud for her breed. She's had four foals between age four and thirteen/fourteen. The last pregnancy had complications, and they have decided to keep a daughter as a broodmare and sell the older mare, rather than put her through it again. She has been broke to ride and has hacked and shown and done things between foals.

Another friend (an experienced horse-person who has owned assorted geldings but never owned a mare) said she would not buy a mare who's had foals, her argument being that foaling is really hard on their body, and the mare might have damage to her pelvis and guts. When I looked at her and said, "What?" she added that Hermosa was probably fine because she was so young, and "everything probably bounced back into place." This was news to me. All else being above board, a few foals would not put me off, but what do I know?

I'm not worried about Hermosa and never was, but provided that the owner's story tracks (for the sake of argument, let's say it does), is there any reason to steer clear of a 14-year old mare who's had four foals? Barring serious complications, human women can usually go back to doing whatever it was they were doing before pregnancy, including pretty nails athletes. I would assume that a horse can as well, given we (generally) have far more complications with pregancy than they do. Am I right?

My friend who's looking for a horse is basically after a happy hacker, who can maybe do a wee bit of showing at a local level. It won't be running at Burghley or doing PSG dressage.

I guess what I am asking the forum is....if the horse is healthy and everything is kosher and all you wanted was a nice happy hacker, would you run away because she had a few foals?
 
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Gosh, I would think that delivering and 'raising' 4 foals between the ages of 4 to 13/14 would pose no problems at all. I myself had three children between the ages of 34 - 38. The hardest thing is not getting enough sleep (when they are babies) and then the worry of what and where they are when you don't know.

ETA: So so, I wouldn't run away.
 
My mare, bought by me pregnant age 10, had had 7 foals annually since age 4-10. Her last ever foal i kept, a gelding.

She had a dropped broodmare belly for about a year after, probably due to annual foaling, but sure enough, it all does ping back into place! I was concerned in the months after foaling it might never ping back, thinking that’s what annual breeding potentially does, and had resigned to that if it became the case, but she returned to be a svelte physique and you’d never guess she’d had consecutive foals during her younger years.

Her gut function is excellent, far more robust than the gelding who hasn’t had any comparable to her body stress in his life. She’s skeletally fine too.

She did have clear foalings for all foals, no complications. She had a knack for foaling in secret out in fields in her favourite places, giving no indication of imminent foaling. Experienced prior breeder gave me lots of info on her. She was chosen as a broodmare from great lines imported, to couple with a sire equally imported from fantastic lines. He was dedicated to obtaining a very healthy breeding pair, which likely helped with her being so healthy as a broodmare, and post breeding health status.
Her last foal #7 was extremely healthy from hour 1, glossy bay coat, well-muscled, active, coherent, vocal even. His first whinny was at me and i swooned 😁

A vetting sounds reasonable to get to check over this mare, but i’d mention broodmare details to vet to check areas of concern closely, just for peace of mind. Especially if last foal had complications.
 
We have a 17 year old, backed at 16, who had been a brood mare all her life. She’s absolutely amazing, we just took the fitness part a bit more slowly. Joints are in fabulous condition, she’s full of life and loving her new career.

I have a younger mare who had two foals very young. She had issues with hypermobility and her pelvis at first but it’s almost gone now with careful work and physio. I reckon she’ll take a year from first backed to come completely right.

My kids’ first pony had been a brood mare until her early teens. No ill effects at all. Is now in her twenties and still zooming around happily.

We also had one who foaled here as a 2yo. She showed no ill effects but again we backed and increased work slowly.

All mine had six months to a year off after weaning the last foal before backing, then slow and steady fitness once backed. From my own human experience of having children, it is very much time - time to allow the ligaments to become less stretchy, for everything to settle and tighten up as it were. Then gently building up exercise.
 
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Foaling can weaken a mare. My own senior mare has never been fully right behind again after her one foaling, which turned into an emergency as the foal was stuck upside down. Foal was extricated live and well by the ever attentive staff at Twemlows.

Some brood mares are grand going back to ridden life, and some aren’t. I don’t know what percentage aren’t.
 
In the normal run of affairs having a foal is not at all harmful to a mare… it’s kind of what they are made for. If they are a few months on and not lactating then their ligaments will be as non stretchy as any other horse. Now they can get foaling injuries which can change things but only as any other injury can… so if they are sound then it should be all fine.
 
Speaking from experience, I would thoroughly check a broodmare's back. The effect of carrying round a great lump of a foal for months can have adverse effects. You can't really check the pelvis, but the back would be easy to xray.
 
I'd want to pay a little more attention to building the muscle she'd need before doing too much riding, but otherwise it wouldn't worry me much.
In this specific case, I would have a few questions about the complications, as they could have an impact on future soundness (i.e. was she laminitic etc).
 
I've brought a few back around that age. It took a good while to get the core strength back and strengthen the back enough for riding. Most had pelvic issues when checked by a physio but those were fixed with treatment over a few months. All (bar a few) got back riding and got good homes. The plus side was that on the whole they were much easier to bring into work than young horses mentality wise.

What I DID notice though, was that the ones that went to happy hacker homes kept going and were happy and sound. The ones that went to homes that were very active or competitive, a lot of them broke down after about 5 years with lameness issues. If I had to guess it was that they weren't conditioned enough over time for the job that the new owners wanted. I could see in follow ups people rode easy for a month or two and then treated the horse like a normal horse that had always been in work. I think stuff like the change to arena surfaces, circles, cantering on hard ground etc broke the horses down as their bodies weren't used to it. I know if I was getting a broodmare back in work for myself, I would be very patient and cautious in introducing work. Saying that some went out to homes and are still happily competing 10 years later.
 
If the mare s back is still well muscled and strong , you will be fine. But dont expect a spine that has dipped to return to full strength , as the ligaments will not recover. I ve known ex broodmares fall to the ground when ridden again because they couldnt carry any weight. On the other hand we rebacked a warmblood 8 yr old after 4 foals - we were reluctant to do so , but owner was adamant she had a strong good back still. She did, and made a wonderful riding mare. A vet check on health of the bones, ligaments and muscles along the back would be a good place to start.
 
I currently own a 17 year old who was a broodmare between the ages of 9 and 14 with 5 consecutive foals. She has the ‘broodmare belly’, but it’s improving slowly. She’s a happy hacker and will never have a difficult life with me.

I’d agree with comments that if they’ve been ridden when young and are coming back, you just have to take it slow building fitness and conditioning up and not expect them to be athletes.

If foalings have been uncomplicated then their insides should be fine. Mine does have a larger udder than usual which was pointed out at vetting, but there’s no sign of any actual issues, just something else to keep clean.

Mine is great to handle in all ways, and being a broodmare likely contributed to that. One thing to be aware of is that they may not have ever really been on their own, so solo hacking may take time. She does get a bit motherly towards the calves in the barn which is cute.
 
Yes things can and do go wrong, but not always.

I would suggest your friend has the broodmare looked at by a physio and then vetted before hand. My broodmares always have the physio after they've weaned the foal, and they can feel tight /sore around the back and pelvis area at first, but after a couple of sessions they ( so far) have all come back fine. We tend to get them going on long reins and and work up to in hand pole work. Then use an equiband system for a few weeks. After that we hop on and start hacking.
 
I should probably add - every one of my ex broodmares is amazing out hacking - sane, sensible and easygoing. After years of being stuck in a field looking after foals, the freedom of the big wide world has been met with enthusiasm by them all, but none of them are in a great hurry. They are quite content to simply enjoy life.
 
We bought a R&D former broodmare aged 10, we unfortunately bought a BOGOF foal with her, who we lost at 1 month old. He was her 7th foal! She lived to be 31, ridden until a colic that lasted 3 days, when she was retired aged 26. She was always a hardy cob, brilliant hack, although rather excitable when ridden on grass, foot perfect in traffic and a brilliant confidence giver for children and other horses. Once we got over the foaling induced laminitis, she never had another day's illness until the colic, although she always needed wet feed to avoid choke. All anecdotal evidence of course,nothing scientific about it.
 
Cheers, guys.

I think the complication was a stillborn foal. My friend has been told that the mare has suffered no long term ill-effects from it. She showed me a video of her being ridden, and she looked pleasant enough.

The other thing.... the horse is in, well, France. I personally would stick with the UK for my search...the breed in question (Arabs) do exist here... but I'm lazy like that.

Is it easy to get a PPE in France?
 
I bought my mare at 13 she had 4 foals by then (ridden in between). She’s now 28, still sound but retired about 18 months. I think the foals meant she had a lot less mileage than a normal 13 year old.

ETA we did everything jumping & competed to elem in dressage so she was in proper work with me.
 
maya2008 said:
I should probably add - every one of my ex broodmares is amazing out hacking - sane, sensible and easygoing. After years of being stuck in a field looking after foals, the freedom of the big wide world has been met with enthusiasm by them all, but none of them are in a great hurry. They are quite content to simply enjoy life.
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Mine is also amazing out hacking! Zero separation anxiety once she'd got over a rather traumatic weaning (no one's fault - tragic circumstances with her then humans which is also what led to her being gifted to me)

My big mare can shout, run around and generally be neurotic and the pony ignores her.
 
I bought a 12yo that had had about 6 foals and was still feeding a yearling even though I was told it had been weaned.
She was only halter broken and lightly handled but she soon became a sensible riding pony and did some low level dressage with a child rider when I sold her on.
My own mare really grew up once she'd had a foal and was much bolder.
I quite like mares that have had a few foals, the ones I've met have had very sane temperaments and more worldly and less trouble to back than youngsters.
 
Thanks for all your thoughts, guys.

My friend has decided to beg off on this one due to the mare being in France. Getting her here is a pain and expensive, and it could be tricky to get her vetted, given the owner is a vet, so finding someone who isn't his mate when you don't speak the language and live very far away is kind of a barrier. If the mare was anywhere in the UK, my friend would be there in a second.

Does anyone know of someone selling an Arab (or PB Arab)? My friend's previous horse had a zillion behaviour issues and a zillion health issues (most of the former caused by the latter), so she just wants something broke and pleasant and sound (don't we all). She likes Arabs but isn't dead set on one, but she is very set on a light, more blood-type horse rather than a cob/draft type.
 
PurBee said:
... She did have clear foalings for all foals, no complications. She had a knack for foaling in secret out in fields in her favourite places, giving no indication of imminent foaling.
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This is terrific I think because the more intervention there is, the more likelihood that it will be needed. 'A cascade of intervention' is a phrase from a book I read during my first pregnancy. (The book was called 'The New Active Birth' and was about labouring without drugs (not to be a hero, but to have as good a labour as possible with as little as possible intervention needed. Believe me, it ain't easy, you want the pain killers, you hint like crazy to the midwife, you hope that someone has a bullet near the end, but not using drugs means that neither you nor the baby are affected by them).

Anyhow, this is about mares, not me. And I know it's not about mares foaling either, it's about mares who have had foals. Just got on my hobby horse again.

(But, think about what many of us do to a mare not far off foaling: we lock her up when she should - and needs - to move around.)
 
m1stify said:
I bought my mare at 13 she had 4 foals by then (ridden in between). She’s now 28, still sound but retired about 18 months. I think the foals meant she had a lot less mileage than a normal 13 year old.

ETA we did everything jumping & competed to elem in dressage so she was in proper work with me.
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😩No, it's easier I think to be saddled and go out for a good decent hack every day than to do that. Human-wise, it's easier to go off to work.
 
My mare foaled in a field. Vet advised it was best, given she wasn't that well handled, and vet said it would be healthier for both her and baby.

Bringing her into work shortly afterwards wasn't really on my radar (hence this thread), since she was two, so it wasn't like she was gonna be in work anytime soon anyway.
 
Caol Ila said:
Thanks for all your thoughts, guys.

My friend has decided to beg off on this one due to the mare being in France. Getting her here is a pain and expensive, and it could be tricky to get her vetted, given the owner is a vet, so finding someone who isn't his mate when you don't speak the language and live very far away is kind of a barrier. If the mare was anywhere in the UK, my friend would be there in a second.

Does anyone know of someone selling an Arab (or PB Arab)? My friend's previous horse had a zillion behaviour issues and a zillion health issues (most of the former caused by the latter), so she just wants something broke and pleasant and sound (don't we all). She likes Arabs but isn't dead set on one, but she is very set on a light, more blood-type horse rather than a cob/draft type.
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Arabian lines? Keep an eye on Facebook too - I have seen a few large pony/small horse on there as too much for a child. Very much like mine I suspect - lovely nature, actually very sweet but interpret every twitch as an aid so more suited to an adult than a child.
 
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