Egg bar shoes advice/experience/comments please

[mightymammoth]

Hi,

My horse's previous owner let his feet get into a bit of a mess (shod twice in 6 months) and he was just in a field for 6 months.

He's had 3 or 4 bouts of crippling lameness in the 6 months I've had him. After £700 of vets input we've established he has very thin soles and under run/unsupported heels.

Vet suggested egg bar shoes on the fronts which he's had on for 4 weeks so far and he's been sound. Unfortunately today he has lost a front shoe having previously lost one just 10 days after he'd been shod. He's not even had them for a month yet and has already lost both the fronts (on separate occasions).

I was wondering if other people had used egg bar shoes and how they found them? are there any other alternatives? Will I be able to go back to normal shoes once his feet are improved? Did you find they came off easily? I use over reach boots but they don't seem to work.

Thank you

 

[Nickles1973]

I fully expect you will now be inundated with replies suggesting that you take your horse's shoes off as this will (you will be told) cure all your horses problems in the long run.
However, my horse has similar issues to yours although the lameness he experienced was quite minimal (1/10 on a circle) My vet and farrier together decided on straight bar shoes as they have a similar effect but are not quite so prone to being ripped off. (That said my horse managed to remove 1 in less than 36 hours) Maybe you could discuss the possibility of trying straight bars?
Btw, I'm not putting down the idea of barefoot. (I am still considering this as an option for my horse) Just that like you, I pay my vet and farrier a great deal of money to advise me and trust them to have the best interests of my horse at heart.

 

[Izzwizz]

My mare had them on for a good few months when she had a tear to her DDFT within the hoof. Helped her no end and shes sound now. She never ripped any off, I used over reach boots too. She is in normal shoes now. One product you could use to harden your horses hooves is Keratex, it may help keep shoes on. Your Farrier will be able to properly advise you on that one.

 

[JackDaniels1]

Hi,

My horse's previous owner let his feet get into a bit of a mess (shod twice in 6 months) and he was just in a field for 6 months.

He's had 3 or 4 bouts of crippling lameness in the 6 months I've had him. After £700 of vets input we've established he has very thin soles and under run/unsupported heels.

Vet suggested egg bar shoes on the fronts which he's had on for 4 weeks so far and he's been sound. Unfortunately today he has lost a front shoe having previously lost one just 10 days after he'd been shod. He's not even had them for a month yet and has already lost both the fronts (on separate occasions).

I was wondering if other people had used egg bar shoes and how they found them? are there any other alternatives? Will I be able to go back to normal shoes once his feet are improved? Did you find they came off easily? I use over reach boots but they don't seem to work.

Thank you

I have one with egg bar shoes on the fronts , has had them on for years now as is crippling lame going barefoot and chucks other shoes off within a matter of hours. Horse has incredibly flat feet, even the egg bars will fall off easily. I have to use over-reach boots and be careful. Farrier says she will never survive barefoot.

Is he/she a TB?

 

[Heilo]

My horse has heart bars on just now. I use over reach boots that are far too big so far not pulled them off.
He had above on due to tendon injury now healed. The vet has now advidsed pads with frog support due to similar problems as you.

 

[mudmonkey17]

My horse has had egg bars on front for aroud 3 years for support as got ringbone in both front legs. They keep him sound and he happy in them

Used to have problems with him pulling them off even with overreach boots on. Found putting a pair of turnout chaps on over top of overreach boots helped.

Now just wears xl overreach boots as moved yards with better turnout and touch wood hasn't pulle one off in over a year

 

[mightymammoth]

I have one with egg bar shoes on the fronts , has had them on for years now as is crippling lame going barefoot and chucks other shoes off within a matter of hours. Horse has incredibly flat feet, even the egg bars will fall off easily. I have to use over-reach boots and be careful. Farrier says she will never survive barefoot.

Is he/she a TB?

Hi no not a tb he's a IDx friesian. I would love him to be unshod eventually but at the minute its not an option

 

[mightymammoth]

My mare had them on for a good few months when she had a tear to her DDFT within the hoof. Helped her no end and shes sound now. She never ripped any off, I used over reach boots too. She is in normal shoes now. One product you could use to harden your horses hooves is Keratex, it may help keep shoes on. Your Farrier will be able to properly advise you on that one.

Hi, He's on micronised linseed and pro hoof (think its called this) to help with the quality of the hoof but its going to take a while for them to grow so much that I can see an improvement

 

[Snowysadude]

Mine has them on. I find overreach boots help although the thing that made the biggest difference was changing farriers. I had a brilliant farrier who kept them on for a year and he never lost one but said farrier then moved to sweeden. After that I went through 5 or 6 farriers due to him going lame or me moving areas and he was constantly pulling shoes. Found current farrier and he's kept the shoes on for 4 months now and horse is completely sound! So my personal and current farriers opinion is a lot shoe further back to support the heel but it's not much use if he keeps pulling shoes and wearing away what little growth there has been etc.

 

[mightymammoth]

Mine has them on. I find overreach boots help although the thing that made the biggest difference was changing farriers. I had a brilliant farrier who kept them on for a year and he never lost one but said farrier then moved to sweeden. After that I went through 5 or 6 farriers due to him going lame or me moving areas and he was constantly pulling shoes. Found current farrier and he's kept the shoes on for 4 months now and horse is completely sound! So my personal and current farriers opinion is a lot shoe further back to support the heel but it's not much use if he keeps pulling shoes and wearing away what little growth there has been etc.

yes thanks for this, I was wondering if taking the back shoes off would help

 

[Alyth]

LOL One of the advantages of barefoot is that the hoof can be minutely adjusted every few days if necessary. As has been said many times before, all horses are better off barefoot but not all owners can manage this method of managing hooves. So - ok - if you want to - rave on about the advantages of the various types of shoes - but imo it would behove you to investigate ALL possibilites. Remembering that vets spend less than half a day learning about horses hooves. Also remembering that most farriers are traditionally trained and have not looked at possible alternatives. It is a fact that farriers that HAVE looked at the alternative do not, now, nail on metal shoes. So you have to make decisions on what information you, personally, can discover......!!!!

 

[Ladydragon]

Hi, He's on micronised linseed and pro hoof (think its called this) to help with the quality of the hoof but its going to take a while for them to grow so much that I can see an improvement

I just wanted to say that this combination (plus a change in farrier) really has helped my TB... His feet still aren't anything spectacular but they're a heck of a lot better... Back shoes are currently off (never thought I'd see the day ) to rest the hooves and give them chance to harden up through natural use for a while as he's not in heavy work... Fingers crossed it'll help your lad too...

LOL One of the advantages of barefoot is that the hoof can be minutely adjusted every few days if necessary. As has been said many times before, all horses are better off barefoot but not all owners can manage this method of managing hooves. So - ok - if you want to - rave on about the advantages of the various types of shoes - but imo it would behove you to investigate ALL possibilites. Remembering that vets spend less than half a day learning about horses hooves. Also remembering that most farriers are traditionally trained and have not looked at possible alternatives. It is a fact that farriers that HAVE looked at the alternative do not, now, nail on metal shoes. So you have to make decisions on what information you, personally, can discover......!!!!

The 'barefoot' peeps I find the most educational on this site are those that offer advice and suggestions without knocking vets and farriers per se and acknowledging shoe less doesn't always suit every single horse around...

No...it is not a fact or my farrier wouldn't have given consideration to removing my TB's back shoes whilst cheerfully replacing the front ones - or happily trim the ones that are totally unshod without insisting on them having shoes... His attitude is that if all horses needed shoes, they'd come out of the womb wearing them but that shoeing is sometimes a necessary option for those that need them... He's no spring chicken so I doubt he arrived at the theory shoe-less is the best option *where possible* yesterday...

 

[Alyth]

[
The 'barefoot' peeps I find the most educational on this site are those that offer advice and suggestions without knocking vets and farriers per se and acknowledging shoe less doesn't always suit every single horse around...

No...it is not a fact or my farrier wouldn't have given consideration to removing my TB's back shoes whilst cheerfully replacing the front ones - or happily trim the ones that are totally unshod without insisting on them having shoes... His attitude is that if all horses needed shoes, they'd come out of the womb wearing them but that shoeing is sometimes a necessary option for those that need them... He's no spring chicken so I doubt he arrived at the theory shoe-less is the best option *where possible* yesterday...[/QUOTE]

So I agree, an excellent attitude....but is he talking about a horse that needs them or a human that needs them? And is he "hedging" his bets? I am not knocking vets or farriers, simply pointing out that horses hooves are a very very small part of a vets study....and that every farrier is different. some of them adhere to what they have been taught, some look "outside the square" and some are balancing in between!!!

I am no expert but learning as much as I can....but still adhere to my original statement that barefoot will suit all horses but not all owners.....but then I don't believe everything I am told!!!!

 

[Ladydragon]

So I agree, an excellent attitude....but is he talking about a horse that needs them or a human that needs them? And is he "hedging" his bets? I am not knocking vets or farriers, simply pointing out that horses hooves are a very very small part of a vets study....and that every farrier is different. some of them adhere to what they have been taught, some look "outside the square" and some are balancing in between!!!

I am no expert but learning as much as I can....but still adhere to my original statement that barefoot will suit all horses but not all owners.....but then I don't believe everything I am told!!!!

Considering he told me to man up when I went all mushy at the idea of the shoes coming off...I'd say he's more concerned about the horse than the owner... But it does dispute the 'fact' you stated...

I don't understand what you mean by it being all down to the owners... So the horse that can't cope with road work or a very rocky turnout needs to live with someone who can provide alternate terrain to be successfully unshod? The owner is always the reason for a horse needing shoes?

 

[mightymammoth]

Thanks for the feedback, my initial thoughts are to change to bar shoes which have less of an over hang. Yes I would like him to be unshod ideally and may look at this once the better quality hoof has grown through

 

[sbloom]

The problem is that bar shoes really don't help the heels develop better form and function in most cases - they simply allow a horse with bad feet to remain sound. I had a horse with DJD of the coffin joint shod in bar shoes for over a year and he deteriorated, as did his hoof balance, under a very good farrier (a farriery examiner!). I had him shod two or three times with Natural Balance shoes before losing him to a field accident and he was sound in those.

If I went through the same thing now? Barefoot, without a doubt:

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/bar-shoes-and-such.html

 

[ester]

op I replied to your thread in vet didn't see this one was longer.
Sbloom, that's Frank's diagnosis, initially it was flat pedal bones and under run heels, bar shoes and better shoeing has visually improved the balance of his feet (heels were underun) quite a lot but with no real improvement in function (ie reducing the lameness). We've just taken them off as I think bf is his best chance of not retiring but I have been happier taking them off as his feet looks now than what they did in nov.

 

[soloequestrian]

I like the way the first answer to your post instantly dived in and knocked barefoot!
Look at all the options - the Rockley site in the post above is great, and Pete Ramey has loads of free information on his website. Also have a look at EasyCare - boots are an excellent alternative to shoes because they provide support without restriction.

 

[mightymammoth]

Sbloom thanks for that I see what your saying about the bar shoes, I'm just thinking that if he can keep them on they will support him more than the egg bars that he can only keep in for two weeks at a time before they get pulled off( taking chunks of hoof) then waiting days fir the farrier.I have posted his hoof xrays in another thread asking for comments a few weeks back and don't think there were any comments about his pedal bone and vet/farrier weren't concerned. It's just his low heels and thin soles.

 

[sbloom]

Do as much reading as you can around hoof function - those that are passionately for barefoot feel that a shoe cannot really improve function. Thn soles are the reason so many vets and farriers say that a particular horse cannot go barefoot, but thin soles and underrun heels are least likely to be improved by shoeing, as the heel cannot function in the truest fullest sense. The Rockley Farm blog is awesome reading but there is plenty more out there. Google "hoof function" and things like "caudal heel pain", "underrun heels".

 

[spotty_pony]

I know a few horses who wear egg bar shoes. They all wear over reach boots when they are turned out to prevent them from pulling them off - are your over reach boots the correct size? Just thinking, if they do not seem to be working then could it be that they are too small? It could, however, be nothing to do with the type of shoes - more the quality of the hoof horn and if you say your horse's feet haven't been very well looked after in the past, U would be more inclined to say this is is the cause. I suggest you apply a hoof ointment daily such as Kevin Bacon to improve hoof quality, also look into feeding a supplement/feed which contains Biotin which is know for promoting healthy hoof growth. I look after a Warmblood who used to really struggle with keeping his shoes on whilst the poor hoof horn was growing out. He wore over reach boots all of the time and we also duct taped his feet up when he was turned out which seemed to help.

Hope this helps

 

[ester]

OP hope you don't mind but I went back to the xrays thread (I remembered when you said!) I can't quote it properly but ferrador (who is a farrier) did say this

'It has a negative palmer angle, the pedal bone is sat flat on that hoof, this crushes the horn and sensitive structures.'

this essentially means that he has flat pedal bones (sames as my boy)

I also note that you say he has DJD in coffin joints (we have that with LF only, prob caused by old age/busy life/bad foot balance).

As a summary with regards to my boy in case it might help you he had 12 weeks off mostly in the bar shoes and went from 4/10 lame to 2/10 in that time. We then steroided (new word ) the coffin joint and came pretty much sound . Started walk work and seemed fine, extended walk work and trotted on soft straight lines and still okish but not 100%, spoke to vet and upped work to see what happened = 4/10 lame again. 2nd injeciton 7 weeks after first = sound on soft lunge, nearly sound on hard straight line, discussed the alternatives with vet and decided shoes off was best option (that happened weds so v early days!) for longer term soundness than padding feet and not much more to be done medically.

how old is yours?

 

[Holly Hocks]

OP - my horse has a lot of different conditions - she has been written off by the vets as she was lame on every leg and after scintigraphy and other investigations at hospital I was advised she would never be sound. Shoes off as soon as she got back from hospital and seven months down the line I am long-reining her out on the roads with a view to hopefully getting on board sometime soon (a bit scarey after not riding for so long!). She is booted with Cavallos on her front feet and what a difference! Even the vets were fascinated by them when I took her in for a check up next week. I think my vet would still prefer me to have her shod, but he accepts my thinking. If you do decide to go barefoot eventually, give hoof boots some consideration - if you get the right ones they are absolutely amazing. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. x

 

[mightymammoth]

OP hope you don't mind but I went back to the xrays thread (I remembered when you said!) I can't quote it properly but ferrador (who is a farrier) did say this

'It has a negative palmer angle, the pedal bone is sat flat on that hoof, this crushes the horn and sensitive structures.'

this essentially means that he has flat pedal bones (sames as my boy)

I also note that you say he has DJD in coffin joints (we have that with LF only, prob caused by old age/busy life/bad foot balance).

As a summary with regards to my boy in case it might help you he had 12 weeks off mostly in the bar shoes and went from 4/10 lame to 2/10 in that time. We then steroided (new word ) the coffin joint and came pretty much sound . Started walk work and seemed fine, extended walk work and trotted on soft straight lines and still okish but not 100%, spoke to vet and upped work to see what happened = 4/10 lame again. 2nd injeciton 7 weeks after first = sound on soft lunge, nearly sound on hard straight line, discussed the alternatives with vet and decided shoes off was best option (that happened weds so v early days!) for longer term soundness than padding feet and not much more to be done medically.

how old is yours?

Hi thanks for this he is 14, sorry to sound stupid but what's DJD? He had some slight arthritis in the coffin joints and was injected with steroids but this was only because its the only thing the vet could see that he could really address from the xrays.

What are the implications of a flat pedal bone?

Did you try egg bars with your horse?

 

[mightymammoth]

I know a few horses who wear egg bar shoes. They all wear over reach boots when they are turned out to prevent them from pulling them off - are your over reach boots the correct size? Just thinking, if they do not seem to be working then could it be that they are too small? It could, however, be nothing to do with the type of shoes - more the quality of the hoof horn and if you say your horse's feet haven't been very well looked after in the past, U would be more inclined to say this is is the cause. I suggest you apply a hoof ointment daily such as Kevin Bacon to improve hoof quality, also look into feeding a supplement/feed which contains Biotin which is know for promoting healthy hoof growth. I look after a Warmblood who used to really struggle with keeping his shoes on whilst the poor hoof horn was growing out. He wore over reach boots all of the time and we also duct taped his feet up when he was turned out which seemed to help.

Hope this helps

Thanks for this yes he wears overreach boots 24/7 and i make sure they are touching the floor at the back. Yes your right about the poor hoof quality. I'm feeding micronised linseed and pro hoo( think thats what its called) which has the biotin in it but its going to take moths to see the benefit

 

[ester]

Hi thanks for this he is 14, sorry to sound stupid but what's DJD? He had some slight arthritis in the coffin joints and was injected with steroids but this was only because its the only thing the vet could see that he could really address from the xrays.

What are the implications of a flat pedal bone?

Did you try egg bars with your horse?

you don't sound stupid I should have explained! DJD is degenerative joint disease, it is basically arthritis but is classed as DJD as no changes could be seen on xray but nerve blocking the joint made him sound.

and yes we did try farrier-made bar shoes, (I put a pic on your other thread of what ours looked like) and he has had them on since November, they appeared to improve his foot balance but not his lameness.

I don't know if these will help but feet pics (not quite the same angle sorry!) but I have taken a lot of pics along the way so I can see any changes hopefully! If you're on FB am happy for you to have a nosey at them all and his xrays. He is/was lame on LF only.
LF with shoe off 15/11/12

to this LF shoe taken off 4/4/12

RF 15/11/11

RF 22/2/12

RF 4/4/12

Initially we thought it was just the flat pedal bones causing the problems (he had heel pain) and a rebalance would resolve it and I think the vet thought a few goes in bar shoes might well work and I was happy to try for a bit but they haven't really for him. The improvement we saw before treating the joint was I think just down to having time off in the field. Fwiw he is 19 and has had a busy life. Other shoeing options would be NB or padding the soles but I don't think the latter is viable long term and decided shoes off was best thing to try for him as it will hopefully get him to load everything a bit differently

I hope that maybe helps a bit?

 

[mightymammoth]

you don't sound stupid I should have explained! DJD is degenerative joint disease, it is basically arthritis but is classed as DJD as no changes could be seen on xray but nerve blocking the joint made him sound.

and yes we did try farrier-made bar shoes, (I put a pic on your other thread of what ours looked like) and he has had them on since November, they appeared to improve his foot balance but not his lameness.

I don't know if these will help but feet pics (not quite the same angle sorry!) but I have taken a lot of pics along the way so I can see any changes hopefully! If you're on FB am happy for you to have a nosey at them all and his xrays. He is/was lame on LF only.
LF with shoe off 15/11/12

to this LF shoe taken off 4/4/12

RF 15/11/11

RF 22/2/12

RF 4/4/12

Initially we thought it was just the flat pedal bones causing the problems (he had heel pain) and a rebalance would resolve it and I think the vet thought a few goes in bar shoes might well work and I was happy to try for a bit but they haven't really for him. The improvement we saw before treating the joint was I think just down to having time off in the field. Fwiw he is 19 and has had a busy life. Other shoeing options would be NB or padding the soles but I don't think the latter is viable long term and decided shoes off was best thing to try for him as it will hopefully get him to load everything a bit differently

I hope that maybe helps a bit?

hi thanks for that, could I see your xrays?