Egg bars or barefoot for TB type feet???

You might not need boots tho....I have some and have worn them a grand total of twice but they are there if g gets sore. G is a 10 year old Kwpn x ish who has been shod his entire life.....he was footy initially on road but quickly got better (I hand walked for first week), has always been great on surface and grass. Will be interesting to se what happens when it all dries out again....
 
Dee is a TB x coloured WB but def has the tb feet! She is 16.3hh but has smaller feet than my 16hh. I've never had a horse with poor feet before so have never had to consider these options before!
 
avthechav said:
Nikkie mariet, is there any reason in particular you don't shoe yours?
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We won't ever be in a position where we will need studs (IE to be competitive on grass), as only compete on surfaces (although he happily hacks out on all terrain for over an hour, works on grass and jumps in the school).

So quite simply, I've no need for a shod horse!
 
nikkimariet said:
We won't ever be in a position where we will need studs (IE to be competitive on grass), as only compete on surfaces (although he happily hacks out on all terrain for over an hour, works on grass and jumps in the school).

So quite simply, I've no need for a shod horse!
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Fair enough, sounds like a good enough reason for me!
 
ann-jen said:
I don't see that as an unreasonable comment. She has cracks and bits missing from her feet already which makes it a bit of a nightmare to nail shoes on. The bottom part of her hoof will surely be weaker from the pre existing nail holes and so I would imagine it would be easier for the cracks etc to deteriorate without shoes and make re shoeing harder???
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He and you should remove the weak stuff when it chips, so that it does not tear off more than it needs to.

Her feet will grow, and probably quickly. I would say that if he is not prepared to test this for a long enough time for the foot to grow enough to get a shoe back on, that he should not be starting the process at all. It will only take a few months, possibly weeks.
 
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nikkimariet said:
You'll need at least a year for an entire new hoof capsule to grow and develop.
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Nikki can I say what I think you meant by this? Please correct me if it's not what you wanted to say.

Most working barefoot horses will grow a full hoof of horn in less than six months. But if you start from a position of a compromised foot, as the OP is, then it will take at least a year for the internal structures to beef up, properly support the horse and bear weight correctly, and produce a really good foot.
 
cptrayes said:
if you start from a position of a compromised foot, as the OP is, then it will take at least a year for the internal structures to beef up, properly support the horse and bear weight correctly, and produce a really good foot.
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You've answered your own question, and just reiterated the meaning of my comment.
 
nikkimariet said:
You've answered your own question, and just reiterated the meaning of my comment.
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I thought that's what you meant, but I have had arguments with two farriers in the past who insisted that a horse can't grow a complete foot in less than six months, when of course those of us with working barefoot horses see them do it all the time. I just wanted to make sure you weren't saying that it would take a year to replace the horn, which is how I thought some people might read it.

So we could be sure everyone understood how fast barefoot feet grow :)
 
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ann-jen said:
And do people find any difference to movement from a dressage perspective or jumping using boots? I imagine they have to get used to wearing them a bit? We have a waxed surface in both the indoor and outdoor arena which rides very firm so not sure if she'd need boots on even in the arena initially. Have to say even tho she has v flat soles she never feels footy on some of our stony paths although I appreciate this may change unshod.
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Haven't used boots but I can say that I notice quite a difference in the way horses I've had move when not wearing shoes. They're lighter and more expressive compared to when they have worn shoes.
 
My horse is BF now and he gets

ERS pellets
Alfalfa pellets
Spillers conditioning fibre
Beetpulp
Linseed meal
And a mixture of turmeric, cinnamon glucosamine, chondroitin and msm with some chaste berry

This keeps a good weight in him and gives him plenty if energy for hacking and general activities, he was getting equities hoof mender for a while but I have stopped that. He's also very shiny and well in himself on this diet, the ERS pellets were a recommendation from people on here who competed as he is cereal intolerant so can't have oats etc :) they are good, I mix the two pellets together in a bin and soak two and a bit round scoops in a big bucket and he gets a scoop of this with the chaff and beetpulp (scoop of each) three times a day :)

The feet will look horrendous my boys did but he was sound so I ignored all the cosmetic chips, was also told to ignore them on here too, and my farrier is great we went from four week to eight week trims and the last twice he has been out he hasn't had to do anything to my boys feet as he is hacked out three times a week across all terrain and he is self trimming. His hooves sound like they are shod now so very pleased :)
 
Thanks everyone. My farrier isn't averse to trying I think he just wants me to be aware it may not be plain sailing!
The walls of her hooves are looking the best they have since I've owned her, it's beefing up those heels I think that is going to take some time. It's my theory that the lack of concussion through her heel is causing the lameness but a nerve block will tell....
First step is to get her sound and that starts with calling the vet later this morning.
 
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Let me stress that what I'm about to type, I type from seeing only what you've posted, so if you feel I'm not seeing the complete picture, please just ignore me! :)

From the pictures, I would be reluctant to use a farrier that has allowed the feet to arrive at their current state, and that uses the old "typical TB" phrase to explain what's going on there. You do say that the feet have improved compared to before...how long has the farrier been working with this horse? Because if it's only been a short time, my assessment may be very unfair!

If the hoof wall isn't robust enough to handle having a shoe nailed on, it shouldn't have a shoe nailed on. If this means that the horse isn't sound enough to work until the hoof improves, well, then it's going to need time to improve that. But any time you take now to get everything just right will pay off in the long run! :)

I appreciate your dilemma, as your farrier sounds like a nice person and someone whom you are keen not to offend. But if you do determine that he's not doing the best possible for that particular horse, then you'll need to find a way to communicate this diplomatically.

Can you ask your trimmer friend to come assess your horse, by way of a second opinion? What's her background/success rate with troubled feet?
 
TBH its me that describes them as TB feet not the farrier. (even tho she's not even a TB! lol) I've owned Dee for about 6 months now. I had no previous history re her feet/lameness as I got her from a dealer. She saw the farrier within the first 2 weeks that I got her. Believe it or not, she had 2 nails through the white line of the RF at that point and yet had no signs of lameness and had passed a 5 stage vetting! I panicked a bit and nearly got the bute test sent off, but she remained sound following having the nails removed. I had a long conversation with the farrier at the start re whether to go barefoot right at the start or chance shoes and decided to persevere with shoes at this point.
Her hooves were a lot worse when I got her and are definitely looking the best they ever have at the moment which makes it all the more frustrating that she is now lame! When I started her on the farriers formula it has been fascinating to see the new healthier horn growing down. A lot of people poo-pooed whether the supplement would help, but in my opinion it has greatly helped in the quality of her feet.
She went through a very bad phase of losing shoes in the summer where the drier weather was causing the feet to dry out and have predictably improved in the winter.
The farrier has a picture of her right fore on his phone, (sadly I can't post it to show the comparison unless he texts it to me) And all I can say is there is a big improvement from that to the pictures I took at the weekend. The foot is a better shape now, on the old pic it had a flat edge on the medial side and rounded on the outside as well as being much more upright on the inside too. difficult to explain without seeing it. Her RF is still an odd shape, but no where near as bad. Don't think it shows up that obviously in the pics I took the other days either.
The vet is coming this afternoon to look at her. Would be interesting to hear his comments on her feet as he hasn't seen her since the vetting. In conversation with him yesterday he still thinks its likely she's brewing an abscess somewhere, so hopefully he finds it and sorts it rather than anything more hideous! But should know more later!
 
OP while I agree the hoof wall quality isn't great I've seen far worse. I would be more concerned about the underrun heels, the deep central sulcus, the contraction, the amount of foot in front of the apex of the frog and the apparently thin soles. A lot of this can be down to the diet, the thrush leading to the deep central sulcus, the thin soles and poor horn quality. The contraction is not helped by the thrush, it can be a two way street, but neither thrush or contraction is helped by shoes. Neither is the underrun foot or the apparently thin soles.

As others have said Happy Hoof is not a product that is particularly helpful, although it is well marketed that is the only positive thing I can say about it. If you have to pay extra for feed because of yard policy I can see that would be expensive, but not as expensive as remedial farriery and vets bills - much of which can be avoided by a positive change in management.

If the horse were mine I would swop without hesitation to a BF friendly diet. I'd deshoe and get well fitting hoof boots with a soft or medium EasyCare Dome pads. I would probably cut out a half circle over the area of thin sole that lies beneath the tip of the pedal bone. PM for more details of how to do this. Padding this way relieves the sole from constant pressure at this point in transition, it is not needed for healthy feet or those with a thick sole and decent concavity and good frogs.
 
Thank you that's really informative and interesting re the pads. I will update after the vet has been and know what's going on with her. I have to say I'm now more than convinced she would be better off unshod. And will take you up on that PM re boots and pads for which I am clueless when I know the ifs and buts of when she will be able to be worked again.
 
Well the upshot of today is, now my vet and farrier are at loggerheads lol!
Fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you look at it the cause of Dee's lameness appears to just be corns, secondary to her poor foot balance.
The vet wants me to try her in graduated heartbar shoes.....and my farrier thinks this is a very bad idea which may make her more sore. Trouble is trying to get them to talk to each other!!!
The farrier still thinks that the best way to improve Dee's frogs and heels is to remove her shoes and I have to say I tend to agree with him more.
So the upshot is, her hind shoes will be removed on Friday. She is on Danilon for 5days and a week of rest for the corns to settle and I've ordered some hoof boots for her to wear initially while she adapts to a life without shoes!!
Thanks to everyone who has contributed advice on this thread!
 
Sounds to me that you are lucky to have such a sensible farrier! I tried doing it my vets way and it did not work!!!! I would work with your farrier and go against your vet on this if I were you!
 
In fairness if he shod her the with the heartbars he'd make a lot more money out of me than going barefoot or even carrying on the way we have been!!!
 
Unfortunately not a lot of vets are very clued up about hooves at all IMO and I would have bet my wage that he/she was going to suggest heartbars. You and your farrier are definitely doing the right thing.
 
My vet also wanted heartbars, my farrier and I didn't. I am very glad I went barefoot and have a sound and happy horse.
 
Thanks everyone. It's all a bit daunting. She's gone back out in the field today and in the soft ground is looking completely sound as she hurtles round! Stupid beggar will probably slip and injure herself in some new way instead the way she's turning herself inside out!
 
Thanks. Just been to get her in and the bruising is already going down in the seat of corn and she's failed to find a new way to lame herself hooleying about lol!
 
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