Elbow Dysplasia

[Errin Paddywack]

Personally I can't see any lameness and I am usually ultra picky about soundness. Certainly if I didn't know he had a problem I wouldn't have suspected one.

 

[Asha]

Personally I can't see any lameness and I am usually ultra picky about soundness. Certainly if I didn't know he had a problem I wouldn't have suspected one.

thank you, thats very very reassuring. His breeder was very confused when she saw him trot up.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Hard to tell from such a short clip, for me, walk is the gait which shows the most. He is pacing for the first few steps before he starts trotting, I know a lot of dogs do that as an energy saver (laziness sometimes lol).

In my experience moderate ED starts to show visibly at about 3-4 years old and specifically difficulties in landing off furniture, out of a car, over a low obstacle etc.

 

[skinnydipper]

Pain can be difficult to identify. A dog can be in pain without limping,

Chronic pain can lead to central sensitisation - the central nervous system undergoes a change which makes the dog sensitive to stimuli which wouldn't ordinarily be painful.

I would be guided by your vet/specialist vet and follow their advice.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would want to see him walk further really to be able to tell but I couldn't spot anything in your clip. I would be guided by the x-rays and if not happy get a 2nd opinion

 

[Asha]

Hard to tell from such a short clip, for me, walk is the gait which shows the most. He is pacing for the first few steps before he starts trotting, I know a lot of dogs do that as an energy saver (laziness sometimes lol).

In my experience moderate ED starts to show visibly at about 3-4 years old and specifically difficulties in landing off furniture, out of a car, over a low obstacle etc.

Pain can be difficult to identify. A dog can be in pain without limping,

Chronic pain can lead to central sensitisation - the central nervous system undergoes a change which makes the dog sensitive to stimuli which wouldn't ordinarily be painful.

I would be guided by your vet/specialist vet and follow their advice.

Thanks both. we know he has ED, and we know that we have to manage him going forward, it was more that the vet had said he was still looking lame on the clips i had taken. I ( and the breeder) just couldnt see where the vet had seen the lame steps.
Hes not ( and has never been) allowed on the furniture, our boot ( pick up) too high for him to have ever jumped in or out so he hasnt been doing that. Its just bad luck. The breeder had retained his full brother, btu has just had his elbow/hip scores done, and his elbows have scored 1. So she wont be breeding from him now.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Assessing lameness from videos needs to be done from multiple angles with someone else filming, ideally at the dog's level and on a level surface. Self-videoing from above will never show much.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Thanks both. we know he has ED, and we know that we have to manage him going forward, it was more that the vet had said he was still looking lame on the clips i had taken. I ( and the breeder) just couldnt see where the vet had seen the lame steps.
Hes not ( and has never been) allowed on the furniture, our boot ( pick up) too high for him to have ever jumped in or out so he hasnt been doing that. Its just bad luck. The breeder had retained his full brother, btu has just had his elbow/hip scores done, and his elbows have scored 1. So she wont be breeding from him now.

I'm not making a judgement call on what you do or don't do with the dog, I'm explaining how ED often presents itself. If you're doing restricted leash exercise in straight lines it won't show up as much as it would if the dog was moving around normally, but it does often start to present earlier than HD.

 

[Asha]

I'm not making a judgement call on what you do or don't do with the dog, I'm explaining how ED often presents itself. If you're doing restricted leash exercise in straight lines it won't show up as much as it would if the dog was moving around normally, but it does often start to present earlier than HD.

Please do make a judgement call ! Im after as much info /advice as people can give. I want to do everything i can to help him, so open to all ideas / change of management etc.
The vets gave us a rehab plan, we stuck to that, and they they said he still looked lame, more than what they would expect. I couldnt see it, but accept my experience with dogs is limited. So they suggested reducing his 2 x 10 minute walks a day to 3 x 5 min walks a day. Hes just not happy with doing 3 little walks a day. Ive even timed the walks without him so as to factor in the sniffing time etc , making sure he gets exactly what the vets recommend. But hes a young lab, and i can see him being a little frustrated with his walks now. He was coping with the 2 x 10min ones. ( just) . His breeder has suggested we build him up now, as opposed to restricting him more. Ive put his name down for hydrotherapy, but cant seem to get anywhere booked as we need the vets referral. Which even though they said would be ideal for him, we still havent received it.
My priority is Stirlings happiness and long term health. Perhaps im just looking for that magic wand to make it all go away..

As for a second opinion, i was recommend another vet by a good friend. Had a good chat with him, and he said its now about long term management. He will get arthritis in the elbows no matter what.

 

[Asha]

i need to stop moaning, and just accept the facts.

 

[JJS]

i need to stop moaning, and just accept the facts.

Not at all! Moan away. Bemoan his bad luck. The less accepting you are, the more proactive you’ll be in terms of his management. I refuse to accept anything as fact as far as Aria is concerned and am forever researching and trying to refine her management. It seems to be working for her, and luckily our vets take the same approach

Also, you asked me to keep you updated on the hydro. I’d definitely say to keep pushing your vets for that referral. Aria had her first session on Monday and so far, so good. She had a physio assessment to start, some laser therapy, and then a stint in the pool. She took to it like a duck to water and seemed to love the experience. The feedback was that she showed absolutely no pain response or tightness across her hips or back (which is the most common problem area post-FHO) and just some slight tightness through her shoulders (probably because she’s used to motoring along). I now feel like we have one more string to add to our bow in terms of managing her, and that can only be a good thing!

 

[CorvusCorax]

If it's just general swimming rather than hydrotherapy, there should be pools where you can go without a referral. Or see if anyone with a horse pool would let you use it. I used to use one, but it was bloody cold.
There are loads of low impact games and training you could do with him, scentwork, hoopers, etc

 

[Asha]

Not at all! Moan away. Bemoan his bad luck. The less accepting you are, the more proactive you’ll be in terms of his management. I refuse to accept anything as fact as far as Aria is concerned and am forever researching and trying to refine her management. It seems to be working for her, and luckily our vets take the same approach

Also, you asked me to keep you updated on the hydro. I’d definitely say to keep pushing your vets for that referral. Aria had her first session on Monday and so far, so good. She had a physio assessment to start, some laser therapy, and then a stint in the pool. She took to it like a duck to water and seemed to love the experience. The feedback was that she showed absolutely no pain response or tightness across her hips or back (which is the most common problem area post-FHO) and just some slight tightness through her shoulders (probably because she’s used to motoring along). I now feel like we have one more string to add to our bow in terms of managing her, and that can only be a good thing!

That is fabulous news, so pleased for you and Aria. Thanks for thr gentle nudge too, will get on the phone and push for the referral. I hope she continues to improve xx

 

[Asha]

There should be pools where you can go without a referral. Or see if anyone with a horse pool would let you use it. I used to use one, but it was bloody cold.
There are loads of low impact games and training you could do with him, scentwork, hoopers, etc

He lives to sniff, its his favourite thing. Ive seen a trainer do specific classes for this. So will find out more.

 

[JJS]

That is fabulous news, so pleased for you and Aria. Thanks for thr gentle nudge too, will get on the phone and push for the referral. I hope she continues to improve xx

Not at all. I know how disheartening it can be, but when I’m feeling down about it, I just try to remember that no one has told Aria her limitations. Dogs are amazingly resilient, and while we obviously have to be responsible with regard to their management, vets can only tell you what they should be able to do in the long term, not what they will be able to do. It’s all a learning curve, and every dog is different.

Also, you mentioned that Stirling seemed to be growing frustrated with his limited time outside. Could you throw some training into his walks to give him some extra mental stimulation (you might already be doing this)? Even now, when Aria is perfectly fine to be off lead, she seems to love practising her various tricks and thrives on being able to put her fantastically clever brain to use. So while Opie is running mad laps around us, Aria prefers walking to heel, doing sit stays, waits, and maintaining eye contact/focus. It might be another good way to extend his time outside without actually upping his exercise

 

[Asha]

Not at all. I know how disheartening it can be, but when I’m feeling down about it, I just try to remember that no one has told Aria her limitations. Dogs are amazingly resilient, and while we obviously have to be responsible with regard to their management, vets can only tell you what they should be able to do in the long term, not what they will be able to do. It’s all a learning curve, and every dog is different.

Also, you mentioned that Stirling seemed to be growing frustrated with his limited time outside. Could you throw some training into his walks to give him some extra mental stimulation (you might already be doing this)? Even now, when Aria is perfectly fine to be off lead, she seems to love practising her various tricks and thrives on being able to put her fantastically clever brain to use. So while Opie is running mad laps around us, Aria prefers walking to heel, doing sit stays, waits, and maintaining eye contact/focus. It might be another good way to extend his time outside without actually upping his exercise

i hadnt thought of that, but yes i can give that a go.

Just spoken to the canine hydrotherapy pool, and they will get the referral from the vets asap. one of the nurses also works for the vets, so they can speed it up. The lady was very helpful, and explained what they do with dogs with ED. She agrees that we need to build his muscle up ( as opposed to resting ) which will help. So plan is underwater treadmill , water just up to elbows so it works the correct muscle. She doesnt recommend a pool at first as hes likely to go completely nuts.

Thanks JJS, feeling much more smiley now.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

i hadnt thought of that, but yes i can give that a go.

Just spoken to the canine hydrotherapy pool, and they will get the referral from the vets asap. one of the nurses also works for the vets, so they can speed it up. The lady was very helpful, and explained what they do with dogs with ED. She agrees that we need to build his muscle up ( as opposed to resting ) which will help. So plan is underwater treadmill , water just up to elbows so it works the correct muscle. She doesnt recommend a pool at first as hes likely to go completely nuts.

Thanks JJS, feeling much more smiley now.

That sounds much more positive!

 

[JJS]

i hadnt thought of that, but yes i can give that a go.

Just spoken to the canine hydrotherapy pool, and they will get the referral from the vets asap. one of the nurses also works for the vets, so they can speed it up. The lady was very helpful, and explained what they do with dogs with ED. She agrees that we need to build his muscle up ( as opposed to resting ) which will help. So plan is underwater treadmill , water just up to elbows so it works the correct muscle. She doesnt recommend a pool at first as hes likely to go completely nuts.

Thanks JJS, feeling much more smiley now.

That’s fantastic news! Please keep us updated on how he gets on

 

[Asha]

That’s fantastic news! Please keep us updated on how he gets on

Will do , and please keep us updated with Arias progress x

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

Fingers crossed you can get to hydrotherapy soon