Electric Shock Collars/spray collars

friesian80

friesian80

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Appologies if this has been done already but Id love to hear ppls opinions on them, have you used one and what was the results or would you never use one on your dog?
 
I have not needed to use one. I have been to training sessions with a dog handle/trainer when he was using them on clients dogs for certain behaviours.
I have had the electric one on my arm and neck (pull power)
I would use one or the other is the need arose.
I have no issue with them in the corect hands for a behaviour that warranted it.
 
I know a couple of people who use electric collars.

It is a system. If used correctly on the right type of dog I think they are very useful.
IMO if you use an electric collar thus - "Bad dog!" - ZAP! then you should throw it in the bin.

People who are against them are I find, the people who will never meet a dog who might need one, who wouldn't believe that there are dogs you cannot shout at, dogs you cannot pop on the neck, dogs that do not care about food or treats, perhaps these people think that such dogs would be better off dead. I don't.
I've had the high-end £250 + ones tested out on me and it's really not that bad.

They do not suit every dog, they do not suit every handler, they should only be used in experienced hands and I don't think they, like pinch collars, should be on sale to the general public, only through licensed training clubs or trainers.

I have used an anti-bark collar, it was useless, the bitch is very hyper and it just hyped her up more - people forget that about electric collars - some dogs THRIVE on the stimulation and it lights them up even more. Hence you need to know the type of dog you have before you run out and buy one.

Spray collars, I have never used but I think they sound rubbish :o
 
I think spray collars only work on sensitive dogs and not in situations where they are reacting in a certain way due to stress.

I have an anti bark spray collar for Harley as he tends to bark at people he does not know. In this situation in works brilliantly. However I was given some terrible advise to use it when visiting my parents house as he will not settle alone in strange houses. He was quite far away from us and I woke up in the middle of the night hearing him barking/howling like I'd never heard. He was in a frensy and the collar had not helped if not made it worse. I felt terrible and have never used it again in this situations.

The only time I have come across the electric collars is my friend with her GSDs. She lives in the country and house is not contained so it is set up that if the go over the boundary they get zapped. They had a trainer in to teach the dogs this. Only problem is if there is a technological malfunction as it happened, dog escaped and was run over and killed. So sad, but they still use them on their other dogs as there's no other choice. But collars get checked frequently.
 
I'm sorry, but if someone needs to question the use of either, then they have no business training dogs.

I've had a few dogs through my hands, over the years, and never have I resorted to either. I'm not qualified to use either system.

Dog training is about the bond between dog and trainer. It has nothing to do with electrical assistance.

Alec.
 
Alec, would you be interested to know that the biggest purchasers of electric collars are American gundog trainers?

I rather think, think anybody who says X is right, Y is wrong, NO EXCEPTIONS has any business training dogs (not talking about you, Alec :))
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm sorry, but if someone needs to question the use of either, then they have no business training dogs.

I've had a few dogs through my hands, over the years, and never have I resorted to either. I'm not qualified to use either system.

Dog training is about the bond between dog and trainer. It has nothing to do with electrical assistance.

Alec.
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Just to clarify if this comment was aimed at me I do in fact have my own thoughts of them, but am just interested to hear what the general opinion of them are.
 
friesian,

my comments weren't aimed at you, specifically, but to all those who use an external stimulus for training dogs.

How do we train our dogs? Where do we start? We start by building a relationship. When things aren't going to well, and it happens with all of us, then the one thing which we don't do, is leap frog the next stage, and rely upon aids. If our dogs don't respect us, then we should look at how we're approaching the impasse. When it's happened with me and mine, and it most certainly has, then I generally take a step backwards, and go back to the basics.

CaveCanem, would I be "interested" in what the American gundog trainers do? No. Would it surprise me that they use electric stimulus? No.

I accept your thoughts about the "always" or "never" scenario, without question, but there are limits, and electric collars over step the mark. You will be very well aware that the mark of a focused dog, is one which when the handler uses the dog's name, then the dog makes eye contact. Yes? No dog which will look at its handler needs an electric collar, in my view.

My honest opinion is that those who resort to an electric collar, should start again, and try to understand the canine mind.

ECs are one of my very few "Nevers"!!

Alec.
 
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What if the dog arrives at 14 months after never having left a kennel or seen grass or trees?

What if the dog's prey drive is so high, it does not know or care what it's name is, or who or where you are?

A really, really focused dog does not actually need to be told it's name, or have anything said, to be looking at his or her owner.

It's just a tool and it's worth depends on the person who uses it and the type of dog it is used on, I'd rather see it used correctly than a flat collar and lead abused.

I've never used one, by the way. I've had one used on me. It is not that different from getting a jerk in the neck from a lead or a jolt on the back from a harness.
 
We have used an electric collar on our GSD before but we won't use one again.
We tried it on ourselves first at a level much higher than we were planning to use. We tried this simply because she was very aggressive towards other dogs after an attack at 2 years old and my mum was very nervous about walking her - myself and my Dad trained and helped at the local GSD club and so, had her with us quite a lot of the time whereas I just don't think she respected my mum.
The collar shocked her out of the behaviour, but it also made her climb onto the nearest bench and look in disgust at the floor!!
We took it off after that :o The spray collars I've heard lots of reports that the dog simply learns to turn their heads away!! :p

I have no issues or problems with people using these methods IF IF IF!! they are properly used and not abused or used incorrectly. In the case of the electric collar, I would class correct use of the electric collar as at a very low level by an experienced dog owner who has been supervised beforehand, at the time of behaviour NOT after and certainly not for medial things such as jumping up, that can be trained out.
I have seen all sorts of methods work and not work. Sometimes you come across a dog who just doesn't give a damn who is there and who he should respect and at this point, yes such aids sometimes do help.

As for them being 'cruel' etc etc I'd rather see someone use an EC correctly than other aids such as harnesses or choke chains being used incorrectly.
K x
 
That's kinda what I mean, KH, that you can go out, buy an EC (albeit a crappy one) read an instruction manual and start zapping away if your dog, no matter what his drive, his personality type, his skin type, barks or jumps up :( when a dog should be properly assessed before you even think about using a method like this.

That, to me, is dangerous and why so many people are against them and want them banned, when used correctly, they can save a dog's life.
 
CaveCanem said:
That's kinda what I mean, KH, that you can go out, buy an EC (albeit a crappy one) read an instruction manual and start zapping away if your dog barks or jumps up :(

That, to me, is dangerous and why so many people are against them and want them banned, when used correctly, they can save a dog's life.
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Yeah I'm totally in agreement with you. One of the GSDs we dealt with was very nasty with other people when out on a walk - instead of addressing it, they locked it in a flat (what possessed them to buy a GSD in a 1 bed flat, I'll never know) and it never went out.
It took a good few months and a lot of patience on my Dads part to start getting it back on the right tracks!
In that situation, it would have been so much better on the dogs part to be zapped (correctly!) a few times than spend its time cooped up in a one bed flat.
K x
 
I have used an electric collar on 2 dogs and find them very useful in the right situation.

Firstly my GSD x who was a rescue dog, had terrible problems with recall, I had tried everything I could. Got to crunch time when he ran out of the house past Mum when I wan't there and she had to run round the village trying to catch him, he was also a sheep worrier so I didn't want him doing anything he shouldn't with local farmers flocks! I was also worried that with his lack of road sense he was either going to get killed himself or cause an accident. I used it very carefully and it was a turning point for his behaviour, he only was zapped maybe twice and then learned to respond to me, on a few occasions he would need the beep to get his attention now I don't use it at all!

The other many years later, is our Rotti who has been a bugger with sheep, now she is very much thicker skinned than GSD so was less responsive to the zap but it has helped massively. She was at the point that we were considering have her PTS as she had killed 6 sheep.. fortunately (In the loosest sense) they were our own sheep as I am sure no other farmer would have been quite so understanding! She is now a lot better and is enjoying life on the farm and we can trust her a lot more than we did!!

In the right hands they are great in the wrong hands they could be very bad, and certainly not suitable to try to solve aggression problems!
 
To use one you need great timing. Great trainers have great timing... but great trainers don't need them.

American gundog 'trainers'? Don't even get me started. No one who uses the kind of methods some of them seem to favour has any right to call themselves a trainer at all.
 
I have used one very successfully on occasions;the most notable was on CoCo,a min bull terrier who barked continually in the car.Now,we travel long distances with our dogs to show them up and down the country and this one was a cracker..BUT I cannot abide idiot barking dogs on journeys.So,for one trip only she had a "bark collar" on,she barked just once,was corrected and never did it again. CoCo travelled to shows for three years ,perfectly behaved and a great little show dog,enjoying her days out with great enthusiasm and gaining four reserve CC`s.
So ,yes, for instances like this,or sheep killing ,it can be a life saver.
 
I have used one for a confirmed sheep chaser and I agree with Spudlet that you need great timing. If the timing of the correction is off then the dog has no idea what he is being corrected for and it will either worsen the problem or turn the dog into a nervous wreck depending on his temperament.

My dog needed only 2 corrections (3 years apart!) to fix the issue permanently and he is now totally safe to live in close proximity to sheep and has even mothered a couple of orphaned lambs :) thus giving him a quality of life he would never have been able to have without it (and yes I did use it as a last resort after prolonged use of several other methods)

However I do think they should be available only through training clubs or after taking a short course in how to use one. I have heard of one being used totally irresponsibly and the dog suffered for it :(
 
Is this not the same as any Gadget? horse or dog?

Probably ok/useful used in the right hands? very damaging if misused, or used by a numpty!
 
I think they are horrible. I look at training a dog the same as the way you would teach a baby, they both don’t know any better until you teach them so. Perseverance, effort, firmness as well as kindness are all needed. And I definitely wouldn’t put such a collar on a baby!
 
I used a spray collar on my deaf dog at night when his behaviour was just unbearable over a period of about 9 months. We used it on two consecutive nights and he no longer displays the behaviour that kept us awake all night :D

We tried an animal behaviourist first which was just a huge waste of time. I suppose I could have tried another one, but at £150 a go :eek: I didn't bother. My deaf dog is unlike any dog I've ever come across, he doesn't behave normally! So for us the spray was a god-send.

*hides waiting to be shouted at by the AAD bigwigs*
 
My friend has a great dane that is aggressive with other dogs. It was attacked by some toy breed when it was a pup and since then it has always gone for other dogs in a really aggressive way. She has tried trainers and behaviourists to overcome this, spending a lot of money and time to try to resolve the problem, but has had no luck and with her being such a huge dog the problem is worse obviously as she can kill a small dog very easily. Short of having her dog pts she had to look at preventative measures.

My friend has notices up at her front gate and front door warning people NOT to come to her door with any dog due to an aggressive dog in residence and last year some idiot knocked at her door with a spaniel on a lead and her great dane instantly jumped on it and was biting it ferociously. It was only by luck my friend got her off the spaniel and in the chaos got bitten herself, which is actually why the great dane then withdrew from the fight by having inadvertently bitten her owner - she has never backed down before. The spaniel required 144 stitches and was lucky to be alive - the irresponsible owner at least had the decency to say it was her own fault for not heeding the clear signs so she took the blame.
My friend uses an EC with her dog. She uses it very infrequently and responsibly. She doesn't want to deny her dog the opportunity to never go off lead and frankly even on the lead the great dane is too heavy and strong to stop if she goes to go for another dog. My friend always walks her wherever possible on private land by arrangement or very late or very early to avoid any chance meeting of another dog. Should another dog appear and her dog not recall she will use the EC on a low setting with the option of course to move up that setting if the dog does not come after the first zap and call.
It's a very good backup/safe guard and used responsibly like this at least my friend is ensuring the safety of other owners animals and that her dog can have some normality of a dog's life.
Her son (not a young lad!!) tried the collar out on his arm on the highest setting and told his mum - this is just a tickle. She told him to try it on his neck, which he duly did - she turned the setting to half power and it knocked him to the ground. These ECs mean business, but I say again they are for extreme situations and I would prefer to see an owner appropriately use one of these than a brutal dog fight and the horrid attempts to break it up and subsequent unavoidable damage and upset caused.
 
As I have said when this subject has been raised before, in the right hands I do not have a problem with ECs. My friends now highly qualified Working Trials dog would not have been here now if an electric collar hadn't been used, responsibly, to control his dog agression. It was used under the instruction of a top working dog trainer. I have also heard of grossly irresponsible use of it where novice owners put one on their spaniel (to stop sheep chasing, fair enough) but then left the zapper where their young child could get hold of it,cue one totally traumatised dog.:mad:
I have used a citronella spray collar on a rescue GSD we had who barked constantly, it worked for a couple of days, then the little monkey learned to shut her eyes, bark like mad until the spray was empty, sneeze a couple of times then was free to make as much noise as she liked.:p
 
My friend will use one on her dog, but on the basis that he is an 8 1/2 stone dobie boy, with plenty of attitude, its a safety back up. Her dog does have a very high "hunt" focus so this is how she and her OH can manage him safely. She is extremely careful with both him and her dobie bitch and knows the breed well but she wouldn't actually attempt to walk her boy without one now. She doesn't weigh a lot more than her dog! I have contemplated using on my staffie bitch when she goes into a blind zone and b**gers off but on the basis that I am not experienced enough to use it correctly I stick to an extenible lead in public places and she is only off lead at either my (deer fenced) yard or my friends yard, where all the dogs know each other and I don't have to worry!
 
Luci07 said:
My friend will use one on her dog, but on the basis that he is an 8 1/2 stone dobie boy, with plenty of attitude, its a safety back up. Her dog does have a very high "hunt" focus so this is how she and her OH can manage him safely. She is extremely careful with both him and her dobie bitch and knows the breed well but she wouldn't actually attempt to walk her boy without one now. She doesn't weigh a lot more than her dog! I have contemplated using on my staffie bitch when she goes into a blind zone and b**gers off but on the basis that I am not experienced enough to use it correctly I stick to an extenible lead in public places and she is only off lead at either my (deer fenced) yard or my friends yard, where all the dogs know each other and I don't have to worry!
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I can understnad ppl may think EC's are more needed in the bigger breeds but have ppl addressed the fact that said dog might have confidence issues, just because they are huge and look agressive if they want to doesnt mean they are briming with confidence.
Ive found quite often making the dog more confident in the situations, making them realise that they are not being threatened and in fact nothing will happen to them even if they dont react can be a good way to address the problem rather than putting an EC on.

I find an unconfident dog who is controlled with pain may solve the problem for the human but the dog can be left feeling totally confused and even less confident.

Luci07 Im not directing this to your situation but its one scenario where Id make sure the domermans issues werent not fueled from lack of confidence before using an EC.
If you dont mind me asking what sort of situation would your friend use the EC?

Very sensible idea to use the long line rather than the EC n your staffy, perhaps joining a dog training class might help address her issues of running away. I find classes are often underestimated but your dog can learn so much from them (dont mean that to sound patronising btw ;) )
 
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I have used shock collars on dogs - never on mine but on other people's who have had problems with their dogs chasing sheep.

Before using the collar I will A) make sure that the dog is obedient. B) give it a chance to chase the sheep ignoring commands C) if in the spring will put it in with a feisty ewe with lambs so the ewe will give the dog a good thrashing.
If these fail then the collar is resorted to.

As with anything, they are a training aid, there is a place for them and correctly uses they are a useful tool but should not be used as 'the' trainer.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I have used shock collars on dogs - never on mine but on other people's who have had problems with their dogs chasing sheep.

Before using the collar I will A) make sure that the dog is obedient. B) give it a chance to chase the sheep ignoring commands C) if in the spring will put it in with a feisty ewe with lambs so the ewe will give the dog a good thrashing.
If these fail then the collar is resorted to.

As with anything, they are a training aid, there is a place for them and correctly uses they are a useful tool but should not be used as 'the' trainer.
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Ive seen dogs put in a pen with our Shetland Rams (unhorned) up here, usually much more effective than an EC although I understand it doesnt always solve long term.

As for the citronella collars I used one on my JRT, didnt make any difference!!!! She is small and must be heard...old and set in her ways :rolleyes:
 
Luci what is your friend feeding her 8 & 1/2 stone Dobermann, thats 53kgs?

Mine is a large boy and he is 38kgs.

I have never used a esc but in the right circumstances I might consider after taking advice. As someone else said its another piece of kit and a lot of equipment in the wrong hands are pretty dangerous.

In the case of sheep worrying I would do what my old hunt would do if a hound worried sheep and that would be to put it in with a ram but with supervision.
 
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