electric shock head collar

S

silver zaanif

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 September 2010
Messages
189
Visit site
following on from another thread i thought i'd see what you all think of electric shock headcollars for training. i have never come across them before, have you? and do you think they have a place in training a horse?
 
I've not come across them for horses but my concern would be the same as electric collars as training aids for dogs- they are smart enough to know when they aren't wearing one, and if your control is based on them, then the only time you have control is once you've got it on them.

IMHO in dogs this causes more bad habits than the original ones which the collar was bought to help prevent.
 
MosMum said:
I've not come across them for horses but my concern would be the same as electric collars as training aids for dogs- they are smart enough to know when they aren't wearing one, and if your control is based on them, then the only time you have control is once you've got it on them.

IMHO in dogs this causes more bad habits than the original ones which the collar was bought to help prevent.
Click to expand...

Exactly
 
Surely if someone got to the stage of contemplating using one with their horse, they should probably take a step back and think of something else or get someone more experienced to help. I don't think any good can come from giving electric shocks to a horse.
 
dont take me for someone who would go and whack an electric collar on a horse...
if you think.. however much we love them.. horses are animals.. as are dogs,... i have used electric collars on dogs.. why not horses??

(just a suggestion.. i am not going outside tomorrow to practice!!)
 
but horses and dogs are totaly different phsycology to each other, and it seems there is much debate as to weather they work on dogs, but use on a horse, i've sen how my horse reacts if he touches an switched on electric fence , i dont think i'd want that on the end of a lead rope, and most importanty its strapped on so he cant get away however hard he tries.... more shocking ( excuse the pun) is that i found out about thire use in training by someone who is a natural horse person, and is useing them.
 
must admit, i've used one on a v arrogant disobedient dog, on the lowest setting, just a tingle. it was enough to get her attention back on to me and then i could get through to her. so, i'm not against them for dogs.
however, the thought of putting one on a horse horrifies me, a prey animal reacts completely differently.
 
Ok before you all jump on me for not being a horse lover I shall explain the circumstances when we used one, which did not work, but was solved with the quit kick which worked on the same principle we applied to the shock collar. We had a serial extreme door kicker on livery, she would start as soon as I got up, and was annoying everyone on the yard, not to mention ruining her feet and damaging her legs. Before the collar, we tried every single normal cure, from door being open with stall guard so she had nothing to bang (she went elsewhere to bang), carpet on door, hobbles (not my idea and actually much worse reaction than dog collar TBH), water pistol (she knew when we were around and would only start when we were out of sight). The collar did not make her nervous she just would stand somewhere else in the box and kick the wall. She knew when it was on and would not put her head over the door. So very quickly we realised it was not an option. The quit kick was new on the market and her owner purchased one and miraculously it worked.
Like I said it didn't work and I really don't think they work in dogs either TBH, bit like invisible fences which are fine until the dog works out that if it runs through the sensor the pain only lasts for a second, a tactic my own horse applies to electric fencing.
Now most of you use electric fences I assume, have you never thought these are cruel? At the livery yard I was last at there was a cribber and the yard owner had electrified every post on the place so she could not exhibit her behaviour and she colicked a lot. After that they gave her one post to crib on, after which she did not colic again. Food for thought.
 
Laafet said:
Ok before you all jump on me for not being a horse lover I shall explain the circumstances when we used one, which did not work, but was solved with the quit kick which worked on the same principle we applied to the shock collar. We had a serial extreme door kicker on livery, she would start as soon as I got up, and was annoying everyone on the yard, not to mention ruining her feet and damaging her legs. Before the collar, we tried every single normal cure, from door being open with stall guard so she had nothing to bang (she went elsewhere to bang), carpet on door, hobbles (not my idea and actually much worse reaction than dog collar TBH), water pistol (she knew when we were around and would only start when we were out of sight). The collar did not make her nervous she just would stand somewhere else in the box and kick the wall. She knew when it was on and would not put her head over the door. So very quickly we realised it was not an option. The quit kick was new on the market and her owner purchased one and miraculously it worked.
Like I said it didn't work and I really don't think they work in dogs either TBH, bit like invisible fences which are fine until the dog works out that if it runs through the sensor the pain only lasts for a second, a tactic my own horse applies to electric fencing.
Now most of you use electric fences I assume, have you never thought these are cruel? At the livery yard I was last at there was a cribber and the yard owner had electrified every post on the place so she could not exhibit her behaviour and she colicked a lot. After that they gave her one post to crib on, after which she did not colic again. Food for thought.
Click to expand...

Its ok :p no one's going to string you up!!! I was curious as to what people would ake of it, so it is extra interesting to find someone who has used one , and even more interesting that it was not posative.

though i will say that electric fence can ot be compared as the horse can move away from it.
 
I am not critizising (sp) you at all Laafet but I don't really think it can be compared to electric fencing, Horses can get away from electric fencing easily and as far as i know mine don't touch it as they know when its on and when it's not, I assume they can hear the ticking.

I will say i don't know much about these headcollars, how strong the shock is etc.
 
Apart from the fact I think they're horrible they just wouldn't work surely!

I mean you've seen the way a horse reacts to being electricuted on the fence, they run (as they should they are flight animals) they can't run from a headcollar attached to their face!

I think it will just lead to a very headshy horse in the long term and in the short term I would imagine the horse would sustain injuries from the shock itself.
 
Well I don't know how the headcollars work either, just stating my experiences with a dog training collar on a horse and how it is not a good idea. Have you ever seen how terrified a horse is when its field companions force it onto a fence or if it gets tangled up in it and can't get free? Electric and horse don't mix regardless of source.
 
Presumably they can 'get away' from the shock of the headcollar too, though, if they stop pulling/dragging or whatever it is meant to stop? i.e. if they behave?

It isn't something I'd ever use as I can imagine it going horrifically wrong (considering they're prey animals) but I dunno, I don't think its complete horrific.
 
I don't like the idea of them at all. I especially don't like the fact that the link from the other thread advocated using them for cribbing/windsucking. Surely these can arise because of stress, and giving an animal an electric shock for trying to relieve stress?? Where is the sense in that?
 
I'm probably alone here, but I cannot see the difference between giving a horse an electric shock and hitting them with a stick.

Either method is often non-productive, but one is taboo and the other commonplace.

I've never used a shock collar on a horse, although have used the electric collar fencing system for a labrador that loved to wander and terrorised the village.
 
flamehead said:
Presumably they can 'get away' from the shock of the headcollar too, though, if they stop pulling/dragging or whatever it is meant to stop? i.e. if they behave?

It isn't something I'd ever use as I can imagine it going horrifically wrong (considering they're prey animals) but I dunno, I don't think its complete horrific.
Click to expand...

I don't think a horse in panic will reason 'if I stand still, the pain will stop'. If they were capable of that, they would stand still when tangled in barbed wire and wait for someone to come release them.

You are expecting a horse who's being shocked to forego reactive prey mode in order to reason a way to make the pain stop. The only way they immediately think to stop pain is to get away from it.

Just my two cents :)
 
Ok, so why are they in mass production then? The only reason there could be the funds to produce them is if they work. Maybe by scarring the horse for life, but they must have an effect that is, at least outwardly, 'correct'.
 
flamehead said:
Ok, so why are they in mass production then? The only reason there could be the funds to produce them is if they work. Maybe by scarring the horse for life, but they must have an effect that is, at least outwardly, 'correct'.
Click to expand...


My guess would be that some people who are unable/ignorant of proper means horse training are happier having some control some of the time (ie when the horse is wearing the halter) than no control all of the time.

Huge numbers of dog 'training aids' are in mass production. The majority (admittedly not all) of dogs don't need such aids- they just need consistent, unambiguous directions, together with positive reinforcement.
 
Mmmm, gosh I've got mixed feelings on this one. Having had a horse on the yard who was a habitual door-banger and at one point nearly managed to climb over the door, having practically demolished the door in the process and engandering not only itself but other people and horses on the yard, I'd be inclined to agree with someone who used it for a habitual door-banger.

I use electric fencing on a routine basis and horses know to respect that.

Although I do appreciate people's hesitation about using something like this on a routine basis as if used incorrectly it could totally freak the horse out. But Parelli use pressure halters don't they, which work on using pressure when the horse makes a "wrong" choice and releasing the pressure when the horse makes the "right" choice, so perhaps this is a step on from that process, where you are "punishing" the horse for making a certain choice (i.e. door banging) and the horse then learns that if it does that then it will result in an unpleasant experience.

Someone once said to me that (re. use of the whip) that its not the whip its the hand that holds it; so maybe with a training tool like this one could apply the same statement, i.e. its not the tool its the way that its used.

If used sympathetically and carefully, given a set of circumstances where I had a persistent and unresolved problem, like door banging for instance, then I might consider using it.

What happens in most yards is that if a horse is banging at the stable door it is probably yelled at - but the horse actually learns nothing from this apart from the fact that if it bangs at the door it gets attention!! Then usually others start to copy this behaviour as well, so if this unwanted behaviour is dealt with quietly, at source, then I don't have a problem with that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top