Electrolyte imbalance - help!

[Red-1]

As an aside, where is the best place to buy Mag Ox? Also, what purity is necessary?

 

[expanding_horizon]

As an aside, where is the best place to buy Mag Ox? Also, what purity is necessary?

Progressive Earth or forage plus. Purity not that vital, as long as you know what purity you have and adjust amounts accordingly.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I get my Mag Ox from Intralabs after one of the more knowledgeable HHOers recommended it . 98.3% purity.

I add just a bit, not the full whack, at this time of year when the grass is mad as they are already on Pro Balance+ which has some Mag Ox in it. I judge it by how nutty their behaviour is .

1kg - Magnesium Oxide Heavy

We sell Borax, Boric acid, Sodium Bicarbonate, Epsom Salt, Copper Sulphate, Calcium Carbonate, Trisodium Phosphate, Sodium Thiosulphate, Ammonium Sulphate

www.intralabs.co.uk

How I do use Magnesium Oxide?

Add 2g per 100kg of bodyweight. Horses 500kg - two teaspoons per day. Ponies less than 400kg - one teaspoon per day. Mix the powder thoroughly in with the normal feed each day. For equine use only.

 

[little_critter]

I would be speaking further with my vet to get tests and a definitive diagnosis and action plan. It sound like any answers gained so far have been through trial and error.
If your vet isn’t helpful with regard to tests and diagnosis then I’d find another vet who is.
I wouldn’t want to continue with adding a dash of this and a sprinkle of that in the hope you find the right mix.
It might mean you need to take him off of the supplements for a while in order to get a ‘clean’ blood test, hopefully your vet can advise how long that withdrawal period is.

 

[expanding_horizon]

I get my Mag Ox from Intralabs after one of the more knowledgeable HHOers recommended it . 98.3% purity.

I add just a bit, not the full whack, at this time of year when the grass is mad as they are already on Pro Balance+ which has some Mag Ox in it. I judge it by how nutty their behaviour is .

1kg - Magnesium Oxide Heavy

We sell Borax, Boric acid, Sodium Bicarbonate, Epsom Salt, Copper Sulphate, Calcium Carbonate, Trisodium Phosphate, Sodium Thiosulphate, Ammonium Sulphate

www.intralabs.co.uk

How I do use Magnesium Oxide?

Add 2g per 100kg of bodyweight. Horses 500kg - two teaspoons per day. Ponies less than 400kg - one teaspoon per day. Mix the powder thoroughly in with the normal feed each day. For equine use only.

So 2 grams / 100kg, is ten grams for 500kg horse. But as weight includes the oxide part of magnesium oxide, would only be feeding about 5 grams of actual magnesium, rather than 10.

To meet basic requirements, you would want to double the dose?

 

[spacefaer]

@PurBee I was feeding approx 14g Mag Ox as he's approx 750/800kg horse.

I had issues feeding it to a certain extent as it's a v heavy powder and not good at staying in suspension in the soaked feed (and even worse in a dry one!). He definitely lost weight in the 10 days he was on it. Irritating as it's so much xheaper option than Magic!

 

[PurBee]

So 2 grams / 100kg, is ten grams for 500kg horse. But as weight includes the oxide part of magnesium oxide, would only be feeding about 5 grams of actual magnesium, rather than 10.

To meet basic requirements, you would want to double the dose?

Intralabs arent an equine feed company so are just giving a minimal recommendations with no regards for nutritional RDA for equines.

 

[PurBee]

@PurBee I was feeding approx 14g Mag Ox as he's approx 750/800kg horse.

I had issues feeding it to a certain extent as it's a v heavy powder and not good at staying in suspension in the soaked feed (and even worse in a dry one!). He definitely lost weight in the 10 days he was on it. Irritating as it's so much xheaper option than Magic!

That’s intriguing, that you were feeding a third of straight mag ox compared to his magic’s current dose, and he lost weight on that smaller dose.

Your description of straight mag ox reminds me of very impure mag ox, that’s grittier and heavier, (due to other minerals bound to it, high iron is common, ) than purer lighter pinky white mag ox powder thats similar to talcum powder. The lighter mag ox mixes very well in damp feed, without dropping to the bottom.

At his weight, the RDA maintenance non-ridden horse dose would be 16g elemental mag = 32g mag oxide

He’s ridden, and getting very little turnout to have a decent mag dose from long grass, so unless he’s on other feeds that also contain magnesium, his 22g elemental mag magic dose, isnt anywhere near his weight upper tolerable limit. Yet IF calcium/sodium/potassium/phosphorus are low in his diet, his mag dose could be dominating biologically.

Youd need to work out all his feeds, combined for their electrolyte contents - to get a picture of what imbalance is going in. Mixed Hay usually has plenty of calcium, low mag, low phosphorus, middle potassium, low sodium. Bagged feeds usually say whats in it.

A blood electrolyte panel and kidney test would be useful to see if there’s any issues. As the body is so good at storing, excreting and utilising minerals from other places to keep blood values of minerals at ideal levels, if bloods show mineral imbalances it is a good indicator there’s an issue. Hopefully your vet will support you delving deeper.

 

[expanding_horizon]

@PurBee I was feeding approx 14g Mag Ox as he's approx 750/800kg horse.

I had issues feeding it to a certain extent as it's a v heavy powder and not good at staying in suspension in the soaked feed (and even worse in a dry one!). He definitely lost weight in the 10 days he was on it. Irritating as it's so much xheaper option than Magic!

He didn’t lose weight as he wasn’t finishing his feeds as mag ox doesn’t taste very nice?

 

[Dexter]

How was he diagnosed with magnesium deficiency and how do you know the potassium is out of whack?
The grass is very green at the moment so that will push the potassium up. You should feed salt as well as magnesium to counter act this.

How does the exercise intolerance show?
PSSM is actually pretty rare , most horses actually have a musculoskeletal problems. And even if your horse has the gene ,.there's no evidence to show that it's the gene that causes problems.

I'd be inclined to have a blood test to check for vitamin and mineral levels. And add 1-2 table spoons of table salt to his feed per day , as well as the potassium.

I thought my cob was showing "PSSM symptoms " but he turned out to have hock arthritis and SI pain. So I'd get a good lameness work up done too.

Sorry but thats just not true. Its very common in cobs and anything with draught blood. If your horse has a type 1 pssm gene, it has type 1. Theres no doubt or discussion about this. Type 2 is a very different matter. To further confuse matters there's a huge amount of anacedotal evidence that type 1 PSSM will cause musculoskeletal problems. Having type 1 PSSM means they need to be treated for that, but it doesn't remove the need for vet investigations for an unsound horse. Type 1 PSSM can very quickly be brought under control, usually in about 2 weeks, so that's why its often suggested as a first step, what its not is a final solution in a lot of cases. Its why you do need to do the test, its only about £30 so wont break the bank.

In the OPs case I'd probably run the test just in case, but obviously type 1 PSSM is not the cause of all these issues.

 

[spacefaer]

He didn’t lose weight as he wasn’t finishing his feeds as mag ox doesn’t taste very nice?

He was finishing his feeds but only eating approx half his hay, if that. Apparently Mag Ox is indicated for use with laminitics and EMS sufferers as it can act as an appetite suppressant.