"Ellen Whitaker refuses to ride for Britain under Rob Hoekstra".

I don't know the background, but it seems a little selfish to refuse to represent your country due to a personal falling out.......
 
Tricky one really. Her Dad says its about the need to make money so I guess they are putting money before country in some respects, but in a way I can understand that they are running a business so its a shame a balance can't be struck.

I'd be more worried if the knock on effect of this was to isolate the whole Whitaker clan then RH really would have a problem, particularly with the number of good young riders this family produce. As for Ellen I would imagine she has spoken things through with her owners and whats best for the horses and come to her decision based on that.

Team GB will have strong rider / horse combinations to chose from with or without her, no-one is indispensable.

I also think a falling out was just a matter of time. If people are used to getting their own way and a new stronger manager appears on the scene its inevitable a bedding in period will take place. One thing I think has happened very quickly is the selection of a variety of new faces in NC teams. This IMO is no bad thing as I don't think its in anyones interest for 3 / 4 people to have a stronghold on team positions.
 
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But why will being on the british team affect her ability to make money? Surely it is excellent for her profile and will help with sponsors etc???
 
Probably things like a clash of dates. ie she may not be able to contest lucrative prize money shows if it clashes with team call ups abroad for example. Also for these riders they have to make money where and when they can, you could have your top horse break down at any time thus your income has been snatched away.

I'm sure she will have other good horses but not a surplus of international rides. I can't imagine the Whitakers are struggling though hence the reason I think its a shame a balance can't be struck.
 
Can't agree more LHS-we need as many riders out there getting team experiance as possable.
Obviously NC's are not purely training grounds and we want the team to do well,but without giving as many new riders(not just the young ones) a chance to shine at that level we have a limited pot to choose from.


I dont think I would call it selfish Katt,if she cant make enough to pay the bills without selling on top horses while competing for team GB it is logical(though sad for her and her team) to pull out.
 
The article usese the word "refuse" as opposed to "turned down", and states it was a falling out with RH. If it was simply that it wasn't financially viable for her to ride for GB, then surely this article would have used different phrases?

Without knowing details it sounds like a childish attitude by EW, however if the fall out is over health & safety issues then maybe she is right to pull.
 
I do agree with RH though in that disputes don't need to be dealt with through the press. Whatever happened to having a conversation in private to resolve issues.

BS has enough problems with high profile fallouts without adding to the pot. Crikey and I thought it was the racing people who were odd.
 
I read the article as printed and understood it to be saying that RH had made requests regarding the management and running of Ocolado that Ellen and her team found unreasonable - i.e. requesting that he be jumped more than they wanted to, especially because he is her only top horse. She was unwilling to serve on a team when she felt the manager was making unreasonable requests and not listening to her concerns.
 
I got the gist that they wanted to compete at different shows not extra shows tbh. Her Dad says ' Its not a matter of Ellen not wanting to jump for her country, but we won't jump again until RH is finished. We have to mix jumping with making money, he has left us with no alternative'.

This to me reads like rather an un-compromising stance. I think its the words ' until RH is finished'. If the quote is accurate it doesn't sound like much of a way forward can be made.
 
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....agree with LHS (above), if quote is correct looks more like a challenge made from entrenched position. Oh dear! A great shame but not a surprise for cracks to show this early in RH's tenure. Is there history here I wonder?
 
I do think its kind of ironic in a way. Most riders that want to make it professional would give everything to be invited onto young rider and national teams as the culmination of everything they've worked towards. Many don't have the wealthy backers and horse power to get there and yet here we have someone who has had every opportunity saying no thankyou to a national team place.

Because she's had everything so young it makes you wonder if she won't have the drive and motivation for long term success.
 
Perhaps, and I am playing devils advocate here, it's not so much to do with Ellen being a "diva" as some are suggesting, but perhaps the team management itself?
After all, RH wasn't the most popular choice of team manager, especially taking into account his previous history.

I, for one, would like to give Ellen the benefit of the doubt as to why she doesn't want to be part of the team.
 
Correct me if I am wrong but from what I remember this is not the first time Stephen and Ellen have done this. I vaguely remember what appeared to be a similar scenario in the past when she was in either Juniors or Young Riders squad when Stephen refused to attend team training as they have their own training routines that work for them. There was a falling out then and Ellen did not jump for her country. All sounds a bit like toy being thrown out of prams.

I am sure there are all sorts of things going on behind this story that we will never know. Each to their own and all that but in my mind RH looks far more dignified by not commenting. As has been said no one is indespensable and we do have other riders.
 
LHS said:
I do think its kind of ironic in a way. Most riders that want to make it professional would give everything to be invited onto young rider and national teams as the culmination of everything they've worked towards. Many don't have the wealthy backers and horse power to get there and yet here we have someone who has had every opportunity saying no thankyou to a national team place.

Because she's had everything so young it makes you wonder if she won't have the drive and motivation for long term success.
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You said it very well LHS. It does come across as toys out of the pram and what a thing for SW to say about getting RH out; that smacks of bullying by cronies to me and I hope BS step on it firmly. They made their choice of manager and it's up to riders to get on and impress him if they'd like to be considered for teams. It's good there's a new broom, it's been too much old boys club for too long now, the youngsters deserve their chances without sour grapes from the oldies.
 
The fact of the matter is that the prize money isn't big enough at Nations Cup events, for the level you're jumping at. They need to either downsize the tracks or upgrade the prize money to make it worthwhile from a business point of view to compete for your country.
 
I understood from the article that Ellen did not like being told what to do with her horses and that person would not listen to her and her opinion. It didn't sound like anyone throwing their toys out to me, she is an adult rider and can speak for herself.

RH says in the article that everything has to be for the team, I've heard that before, you feel like you are bring taken over, she is free to do as she wishes isn't she? people have to make a living and she must have agreement with her owners surely.
 
Hmmm, I haven't read the article yet, but my first thought at seeing a preview on the website was that a dummy has been spat;)
I know that money has to be made etc, but refusing to jump on teams seems to me a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face:)
 
As someone else said the team may be better for it - rather have a team working together and wanting to be there than one person who occassional turns up and does things only there way when they do.

Probably sensible for both parties to avoid any more upset but doesnt change my opinion that she is a little madam. A smile from her once in a while wouldnt hurt either
 
I haven't read the full article because i don't buy H&H anymore but i would make a couple of observations...

The apparent argument about money is weak imo. Barring the Global Champions Tour and a couple of one-off super Grand Prix, the Super League shows have some of the biggest prize money in showjumping. There aren't too many GP that boast a prize fund approaching a third of a million euro's/pounds. In fact, i seem to recall Peter Charles complaining last year when we were threatened with relegation to the promotional league that our riders would be denied access to the best shows in terms of prize money :p

Steven Whitaker is a very strong willed person by all accounts and you can almost guarantee that this decision is his as much (if not more than) Ellen's.

Rob is a very strong minded person who comes from an era when it was everyone's dream to have worked up to the level where they were selected to represent their country.....clearly things don't work like that these days with people being bought multi-million pound horses to ride.

Ellen doesn't exactly have a deep string of championship horses available to her at the moment....and Occolado isn't getting any younger.

I just hope she hasn't burnt all her bridges for when she does have something good enough to make say an Olympic or WEG team and then wonders why she isn't selected :rolleyes:

Clearly the rest of the Whitaker clan haven't closed ranks (yet!) though as Uncle Mike was on the team in La Baule....and i know RH lists JW as one of his close friends too...
 
MCPHERSONHATER said:
Good girl Ellen. Was appalled when we appointed Hoekstra.
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What a strange thing to say.

You'll see from my previous thread that I questioned the appointment of RH on a morality issue
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=353189

but I do think that now he is appointed whether people agree with the decision or not BS needs to start getting the sport moving forward and these constant tittle tattle spats are not doing its credibility any favours .

Really, some of the people on the board and some of the riders need to put aside their own prima donna behaviour and consider the wider benefits of working together to at least promote the sport in harmony working towards a common goal. I think the whole problem is people are running their businesses in isolation and so only think of their personal benefits ie whats in for me. A whole mind set change is needed really for people to start thinking of team, sport benefits as a whole. Its getting towards the point where its only known for spats off the field as opposed to successes in the arena.
 
This must come back to the BSJA and their administration not being fully aware of the top riders work load and the expense of competing in Europe. I have seen one of the Whittiker's arrive at the airport in France at 7.30 in the morning and compete late into the evening. They know what they and the horse can stand and if you have competed at a top level for 20 years as the senior Whittikers have then you will have a personal opinion of most of your competing rivals and of course some you will not get on with but this is a fact of life look at the Irish team members who have refused to jump for Ireland as an example.
 
The BSJA are fully aware of top riders workload. We have been so used to seeing the teams dominated by the Whitaker family and friends for years. Maybe this is a good thing. Bring chances to some of the riders who do not have the financial backing and horsepower as Ellen but certainly bucket loads more natural talent and riding ability.

It certainly has not done British show jumping any favours at all having an elite few dominate our teams abroad. Maybe Ellen just got ticked off big time at the suggestion that she could do with some coaching from someone who is going to be brutally honest with her?
 
Bring chances to some of the riders who do not have the financial backing and horsepower as Ellen but certainly bucket loads more natural talent and riding ability.
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Yep, gotta agree.
 
cefyl said:
The BSJA are fully aware of top riders workload. We have been so used to seeing the teams dominated by the Whitaker family and friends for years. Maybe this is a good thing. Bring chances to some of the riders who do not have the financial backing and horsepower as Ellen but certainly bucket loads more natural talent and riding ability.

It certainly has not done British show jumping any favours at all having an elite few dominate our teams abroad. Maybe Ellen just got ticked off big time at the suggestion that she could do with some coaching from someone who is going to be brutally honest with her?
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I agree too.
 
I don't understand why this is causing such a fuss. Loads of professional sportsmen make themselves unavailable for their country in cricket, rugby or football for loads of reasons many of which the general public never hear.

In another sport I am not sure this would really be such news.
 
Sorry but weather it is Football cricket, show jumping there should not be National teams the sports and money involved is to big now. If a horse gets injured does the BSJA pay compensation?, If Wayne Ronney
get injured and is not available for Manchester United all season is that fare to his team and supporters . All sports are on a huge commercial footing so I think why do we need National teams ,in any sport.
But as for Ellen Whitaker we all know changing the slightest thing can effect a horses performance, With Her horses she should do what she feels is best for them and her, and sod the team.
 
Stateside said:
Sorry but weather it is Football cricket, show jumping there should not be National teams the sports and money involved is to big now. If a horse gets injured does the BSJA pay compensation?, If Wayne Ronney
get injured and is not available for Manchester United all season is that fare to his team and supporters . All sports are on a huge commercial footing so I think why do we need National teams ,in any sport.
But as for Ellen Whitaker we all know changing the slightest thing can effect a horses performance, With Her horses she should do what she feels is best for them and her, and sod the team.
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There shouldn't be national teams? So there shouldn't be international sport :confused:
I have no idea what you are on about, sorry :o
 
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