"Ellen Whitaker refuses to ride for Britain under Rob Hoekstra".

JunoXV said:
If you'd ever seen stephen training ellen I think you might have a different view ;)

The way I see it RH wanted ellen on the team because she IS successful, not because she COULD be successful. As she is already at the top of the game then they must be doing something right. To then start telling S and E where and when to compete is IMHO a little out of order.

E has already represented GB on many occasions so its not a case of not wanting to as I see it, more a case of not being told how to manage an already successful horse. Seems reasonable to me.

Then again I'm sure we only hear less than half the real story. :confused:
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But for a team to be sucessfull you have to comprimise and all be on the same page.
If someone wants to be part of the team they have to go along with what the team says-the others dont seem to have any issue with this.

As I said before,I think it will prove ot be a good thing for the team and sport-not because I dislike EW hugely(although the tantrums I have seen do put me off her) but because if a "given" is out of action someone else will get a chance to shine and the more riders we have avalable for selection the better.

Zoeshiloh,thats a very interisting point-if EW has refused to jump for the team as apose to being unable to,she really should not be reciving any funding from World Class. I wonder if it has been stopped?
 
JunoXV said:
The way I see it RH wanted ellen on the team because she IS successful, not because she COULD be successful. As she is already at the top of the game then they must be doing something right. To then start telling S and E where and when to compete is IMHO a little out of order.
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Ehm... try doing that in any other sport... a person who would go against the advice of the "team coach" and do their own thing would be rendered a prima donna. How come just because it's showjumping, it's fine? And is Team S and E really doing that well compared to their global competitors?
 
I think its very telling that BS have come down on the side of RH and that is right imo, you don't appoint a new team manager and then undermine their decisions.

Anyone knows that to be part of a team you may need to compromise your own position and if EW can't do that its right that she steps away. A team needs to pull together and RH has a huge task in front of him and I doubt he wants someone who doesn't put team needs first. There are plenty of other hungry players out there who would love the chance to step up a notch.
 
As anima pointed out EW should NOT be receiving any more funding period. It should be directed to those who will support our nation. The road has started to 2012 and it is not acceptable to keep funding someone who refuses to be part of a team.
 
RH was a crazy appointment imo, seems a rather abrasive character with little respect from the riders....trouble is finding someone who wants to do it i guess...riders still riding want to be on the teams not running them...
 
Jump2It said:
RH was a crazy appointment imo, seems a rather abrasive character with little respect from the riders....trouble is finding someone who wants to do it i guess...riders still riding want to be on the teams not running them...
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What makes you think Rob doesn't have the respect of the riders ? I would suggest he is extremely highly regarded amongst his peers. If he was that bad do you think he would have been able to assemble the sort of squad he has for Rome !? Clearly the Whitakers (original generation) are not too concernef about little Ellen's predicament. I can't remember the last time GBR put out a squad of such strength...bring it on :)
 
Rambo said:
What makes you think Rob doesn't have the respect of the riders ? I would suggest he is extremely highly regarded amongst his peers. If he was that bad do you think he would have been able to assemble the sort of squad he has for Rome !? Clearly the Whitakers (original generation) are not too concernef about little Ellen's predicament. I can't remember the last time GBR put out a squad of such strength...bring it on :)
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SECONDED! That is all I have to say at this moment...
 
It has to be a pain in the bum when you have planned out your only competitive horse's show year; the events he will attend, his training and rest periods, management etc.. Having scheduled all that taking into account the other horses you have to pilot through their training and showing, Hoekstra comes along and wants to throw a spanner in your plans. Not only that, but he thinks you should drop everything to accommodate him. I think for somebody who makes their living with jumping horses it is pretty unreasonable to expect Ms Whitaker to just be a good girl and do as she's told. I would imagine that if he pulled the same **** with the male members of the clan they would give him the same answer that Stephen did.
 
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But everyone else is in the same boat, surely?

Whenever there is a change of management there's going to be screaming, it goes with the territory.

In the end, the proof will have to be in the pudding - the biggest problem these days seems to be getting people to wait long enough to see results (no different than anywhere else, I guess) and reminding people that the point IS results. I've yet to see a team do well and THEN everyone says, "Yeah, well, I still think they made all the wrong choices."
 
I'm struggling to understand all the talk of 'Team'.
As far as I can see it the riders dont compete as a team. They go in to jump their rounds individually. What one rider does has no effect on the performance or outcome of the others except for perhaps advising that distance x rides long/short etc. The team element only comes in to it when all the scores are added up.
I understand the team concept in multiplayer sports where the actions of one directly affect the rest as all on the field at same time. This is not the case with SJ, eventing, dressage.
So please, can someone enlighten me as to why a group of individuals who will compete individually using their own equipment that they have produced (horse) would have to train as a team?

Only area I can see the team aspect comming in to play is if the members dont get on with each other. :confused:
 
Yes they do jump individually but the collective performance of those individuals effects the team results and therefore the preparation of each person/ horse should be geared towards an overall aim of achieving the best team results.

IMO showjumping team members are no different to other sports, ie football is played with individuals doing their best on the pitch to achieve team success, you don't see David Beckham with Peter Crouch on his back together, no they are on the pitch as individuals doing the best they can to help team performance.

I do agree though that in the case of SJing its not like other sports in that they don't train as a team and are therefore working in isolation until team call up so the mentality of unity may not be as strong. Football teams are such that they train and play as a team much more frequently than call up for SJ nations cup stuff.
 
stormybracken said:
Amelia27 said:
I've seen her lose the plot with her horse far too many times in public and can only imagine what goes on at home >:(

Her behaviour with a grey mare at the top of the Bank at Hickstead made me stop watching show jumping any more.
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No that wasn't one of her finest moments was it.

As an aside what a team for Rome, RH has clearly called on the big guns.

Secondly I can't believe that BS has such a small number of members , 16k. Was really shocked when you think of how many horse riders we have in this country. Just shows that there is a huge divide between jobbing and recreational riders.
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LHS said:
Yes they do jump individually but the collective performance of those individuals effects the team results and therefore the preparation of each person/ horse should be geared towards an overall aim of achieving the best team results.
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Dont really agree, the preperation of each indiviadual should be geared to achieving their best possible result which would then give the combined team score its best possible. As each of the members compete most of the time outside the team it is reasonable to assume their preperation is the best it could be to achieve their maximum performance.

Analogy with football doesn't really hold water. The players in a football team HAVE to work together ON the pitch. They also never participate in their sport outside of a team environment, its impossible to do it.

Showjumpers train and develop both themselves and their horses as individuals and one would assume have learnt to get the maximum from the partnership or they wouldn't be at the top of their game.
 
We rewatched some of Olympia last night (nothing on telly) & it showed an interview with EW regarding teams & the problems in british showjumping. I can't remember the exact words but "we all need to pull together & put the team first rather than only thinking of ourselves" or words to that effect were mentioned. I'd be interested to know what has gone on behind the scenes to cause a complete u-turn in her thoughts.

If anybody still has it, it was the world cup qualifier programme, it made interesting watching after what's gone on in the last couple of weeks
 
This is a reply to no-one in particular, but my observation is, that maybe BS (ie. RH), is just as fed up as we are, with people at the top of their game, cherry picking what they want to do. Team members can't pick and choose where they want to jump, just because their name is Whitaker. I have heard too many times, that people are put on standby to jump a NC, as "we are waiting for a decision from xxxxx Whitaker". Huge respect to Rob Hoekstra for breaking the cycle.
 
Equibrit said:
It has to be a pain in the bum when you have planned out your only competitive horse's show year; the events he will attend, his training and rest periods, management etc.. Having scheduled all that taking into account the other horses you have to pilot through their training and showing, Hoekstra comes along and wants to throw a spanner in your plans. Not only that, but he thinks you should drop everything to accommodate him. I think for somebody who makes their living with jumping horses it is pretty unreasonable to expect Ms Whitaker to just be a good girl and do as she's told. I would imagine that if he pulled the same **** with the male members of the clan they would give him the same answer that Stephen did.
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Thats horses :p
If you were given the chance to be on the team and had planned your horses year assuming you wouldnt make it,you would pretty quickly be able to change your plans.
I also dont think it has anything to do with her being a woman either-if RH is doing what he belives to be the right thing for the team then any rider not in line with the teams plans will have to comply or move aside.

Have to admit,my first thoughts on reading the article was "thank christ we have a manager with the balls to do what he thinks is right".

TarrSteps is right,it's a strong team for Rome and if they bring home the goods it will only serve to remind riders that no one is bigger then anyone else.
 
i think that Ellen Whitaker not jumping for GB isn't really a big loss! she is a spoilt girl who doesn't realise how lucky she is, and I think the fact the 2 of her brothers have left home and based themselves somewhere else or with other people proves my point. the fact that she didn't want to go to Lummen because it was to close to La Baule, but would go to Newmarket and Notts county just to win a bit of money is ridiculous. she basicly contradicted herself, as Newmarket and Notts county was closer than Lummen to La Baule.

You would have thought that being asked to represent GB was an honour!!

the fact that she doesn't have many rides could be the fact that if she didn't jump the socks off her horses to win a few extra pounds, she might not be in that situation. All of the other top riders manage to make money but still allow there top horses to have time off.

maybee she isnt as talanted as everybody thinks she is!
 
I dont think RH is the best man for the job, (Tim Stockdale did a fab job doin a bit of managing last year/this year tbh we need him)
However, the amount of times I have seen Ellen pull her horses about and have hissy fits in the practice ring, being rude to everyone and yanking her horses around after a bad round I'd be happy to see her not jump for GB. Yes, most of the time she gets results but she's low on the horsemanship front, possibly because she has been brought up to see it as a business, and it's not good for kids that look up to her as they copy the behaviour.
 
The team did really well in Rome ( 2nd ) so she's clearly not indispensable, better not be a Diva forever cos she might not be invited back on the team.
 
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