Elvis Vetting update - WWYD?

[Annagain]

Surely there is no such thing as "passing" or "failing" just giving you information upon which you can make a judgement. You hadn't said no, just asked for a second opinion and that caused them to pull out so it's their responsibility.

 

[gunnergundog]

Personally I wouldn't give them the vet cert even if they did agree to pay for the vetting. The cynic in me says they are probably aware of an issue with the horse and can't believe their luck in you providing them with a vet that passed the horse on paper. They therefore want to try selling the horse (with recent vet cert) in order to try and find some naive person who will buy the package and thereby obviate the risk of submitting the horse to another (possibly less successful) vetting.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Surely there is no such thing as "passing" or "failing" just giving you information upon which you can make a judgement. You hadn't said no, just asked for a second opinion and that caused them to pull out so it's their responsibility.

Strictly speaking I agree. However the seller pushed to know if he'd "passed", I suspect with the deposit in mind, which is when she said he'd technically passed. It's semantics really and if they want to go down that route I will happily get my vet to verify that she was unsure he'd be capable of doing the job I want for very long.

 

[be positive]

I suspect this is the route they will go down

However my vets words were "technically he's passed as in he could go out today and do the job you want, but for how long I couldn't say as his right hind is a concern".

He did pass as fit for purpose with reservations over the hind, that they have now changed the terms, they were happy for a second opinion but have now pulled out from selling to you, means the deposit should be returned or they must continue with the sale and let you investigate the issue with a vet who they approve of if they feel a confict of interests, they cannot have it both ways.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Personally I wouldn't give them the vet cert even if they did agree to pay for the vetting. The cynic in me says they are probably aware of an issue with the horse and can't believe their luck in you providing them with a vet that passed the horse on paper. They therefore want to try selling the horse (with recent vet cert) in order to try and find some naive person who will buy the package and thereby obviate the risk of submitting the horse to another (possibly less successful) vetting.

I honestly hadn't thought of that, however the new buyer would still be able to see that his right hind shows stringhalt as it's stated on the certificate and would therefore be considered a pre-existing condition by any insurer so whilst they wouldn't have the initial outlay of a vetting they'd still be in the same boat as me in terms of insuring him.

 

[be positive]

I honestly hadn't thought of that, however the new buyer would still be able to see that his right hind shows stringhalt as it's stated on the certificate and would therefore be considered a pre-existing condition by any insurer so whilst they wouldn't have the initial outlay of a vetting they'd still be in the same boat as me in terms of insuring him.

No insuring would not be an issue because the certificate is not theirs to present, so will not be seen by an insurance company, if they say he has mild stringhalt as it is not degenerative or normally a problem I don't think an insurance company would exclude the limb automatically, for you it is a potential issue as you would have to send the certificate in and the wording is probably vague enough that even if they do not exclude the limb if you did have problems at a later date it will be brought up then as a reason to not cover any treatment required, so you had to get clarification of what was wrong.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

No insuring would not be an issue because the certificate is not theirs to present, so will not be seen by an insurance company, if they say he has mild stringhalt as it is not degenerative or normally a problem I don't think an insurance company would exclude the limb automatically, for you it is a potential issue as you would have to send the certificate in and the wording is probably vague enough that even if they do not exclude the limb if you did have problems at a later date it will be brought up then as a reason to not cover any treatment required, so you had to get clarification of what was wrong.

My insurance company have confirmed the limb would be excluded. My vet said it was definitely degenerative which is why she was unsure how long he would be suitable for the job I want him for...I honestly don't know enough about the condition which is why I wanted a second opinion. His price means that whoever buys him will need to have him 5 stage vetted if they wish to insure him so they will still run the risk that another vet may pick up on the same thing.

 

[paddi22]

So sad the sale turned into a mess. But how can the vet say its definitely degenerative though? There is a difference between 'exhibiting signs' and a definitive diagnosis of a degenerative issue. I wouldn't be happy with that vet at all and how the situation has gone.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

So sad the sale turned into a mess. But how can the vet say its definitely degenerative though? There is a difference between 'exhibiting signs' and a definitive diagnosis of a degenerative issue. I wouldn't be happy with that vet at all and how the situation has gone.

Throughout the vetting it went from concern regarding the right hind to showing signs of stringhalt to the actual paperwork which states he has mild stringhalt in the right hind. Her feeling was this would degenerate over time but that xrays and scans were unlikely to show anything as stringhalt doesn't tend to show. In hindsight I should have pushed for further clarification on next steps if I were to take him on but at this stage it's seems a bit of a moot point.

 

[stormox]

just out of interest- as you say,its now a moot point- could you see a problem yourself?

 

[ycbm]

Throughout the vetting it went from concern regarding the right hind to showing signs of stringhalt to the actual paperwork which states he has mild stringhalt in the right hind. Her feeling was this would degenerate over time but that xrays and scans were unlikely to show anything as stringhalt doesn't tend to show. In hindsight I should have pushed for further clarification on next steps if I were to take him on but at this stage it's seems a bit of a moot point.

I think what's confusing a lot of us is that stringhalt is not usually degenerative, and is seen in walk. Whereas shivers is degenerative and is felt in holding up the leg. It's a moot point now, and you've had a lucky escape I think, but it really does sound as though your vet is confusing the two.

 

[Pilib]

I think what's confusing a lot of us is that stringhalt is not usually degenerative, and is seen in walk. Whereas shivers is degenerative and is felt in holding up the leg. It's a moot point now, and you've had a lucky escape I think, but it really does sound as though your vet is confusing the two.

I agree, it sounds as if the vet is confusing stringhalt and shivers x

 

[FestiveFuzz]

just out of interest- as you say,its now a moot point- could you see a problem yourself?

I specifically asked my vet to pay closer attention to the right hind as I was slightly concerned by it for a few reasons but mainly due to a hard lump that we suspected to be a splint.

 

[dixie]

What a holy mess and I feel for you.
However, I think the vet is getting shot down un-necessarily. She has pointed out a potential problem and now the owner has agreed that he's always been funny with that leg - the vet has done her job imo.

 

[ester]

The vet just used the best description she could have for what she saw with the limited info she saw, she had reservations. It is possible there was a different way of placing the foot that was only observable to an experienced eye. Stringhalt is a tricky one as we don't really know what causes it and it is only really diagnosable from observed symptoms.
At the end of the day the OP wants to do dressage and a horse with a funny hind leg isn't going to do the job long term and the vets job is to advise their client of the horse's suitability which IMO the vet has done.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Final update. Now speaking direct with the owner and have discovered the story she's been told isn't quite the same as the conversation I've been having.

That said, as I am currently seeking legal counsel on the matter and won't be continuing with the sale I have asked admin to remove this thread as whilst everything I have said is factually correct and can be verified by my vet I would hate for this to impact on their ability to sell him as he really is a lovely horse who deserves the best of homes.

Thanks so much for all the messages of support and advice and the PMs of potential horses I really do appreciate it. I am away with work again next week and have decided to take a break from horse hunting until I return as right now I'm too upset and tired to contemplate horse hunting but I will follow up on things once I'm back.

Much love, FF x

 

[wills_91]

Have been following this thread, gutted for you but I'm sure your partner is out there somewhere. Best of luck x