Embryo transfer for horses?

[JBM]

Just out of interest to myself
I have a mare I love to bits would absolutely kill to have a foal out of her as her temperament, confirmation and ability is amazing but she’s 21 and I wouldn’t risk her as she’s my world
I was curious about the costs risks and personal experiences of embryo transfer in horses
Couldn’t afford it now but maybe in the future?

 

[TheMule]

I've done it twice. It is a bit more expensive than normal pregnancy but the biggest issue you will have is a 22 year old mare will likely have much reduced fertility and be harder to get in foal. You'd be best to use fresh semen and I would advise a uterine biopsy first to check if it's really worth doing or not

 

[JBM]

I've done it twice. It is a bit more expensive than normal pregnancy but the biggest issue you will have is a 22 year old mare will likely have much reduced fertility and be harder to get in foal. You'd be best to use fresh semen and I would advise a uterine biopsy first to check if it's really worth doing or not

Well I’d be putting her egg in another mare hopefully but do you mean her egg might not fertilise as easily?

 

[SilverLinings]

Well I’d be putting her egg in another mare hopefully but do you mean her egg might not fertilise as easily?

The embryo in implanted in the recipient mare, not the egg, so the fertility of the 'donor' mare is key. Egg quality also declines with age so there is a risk that the embryo won't survive the pregnancy even if conception is straightforward. It could be successful though, would depend on whether you could afford several attempts and/or to loose the money if no foal is forthcoming.

 

[JBM]

The embryo in implanted in the recipient mare, not the egg, so the fertility of the 'donor' mare is key. Egg quality also declines with age so there is a risk that the embryo won't survive the pregnancy even if conception is straightforward. It could be successful though, would depend on whether you could afford several attempts and/or to loose the money if no foal is forthcoming.

Thank you so much
Do you know the approximate costs for getting that done?

 

[TheMule]

I’d you really want to maximize your chances of success I'd suggest ICSI. That is a lot more expensive, but much more likely to work for an older maiden

 

[SilverLinings]

Thank you so much
Do you know the approximate costs for getting that done?

I think you'd be best having a chat with a breeding-specialist vet, as you will have several options particularly regarding fertilisation. A good vet should be able to listen to your mare's history and suggest the route most likely to work for her, but you might need some pre-breeding exams first to see whether it is likely for her to take and worth pursuing. Do you have a donor mare lined up or will you be using a commercial service? If you have one lined up then it is preferrable they are not a maiden, and have not had any problems during previous pregnancies/foalings.

 

[JBM]

It’s more getting information for hopefully attempting next year so I don’t have anything lined up as of yet
But I’ll be planning to get the good vet out when it happens
Thank you for all the help
I only really wanted to know if it was possible as I know she’s older and I don’t want to stress her out too much so if risk is too much I’d just ditch the idea

 

[SilverLinings]

Good luck if you decide to go ahead, and if there is a foal then we will of course need you to post lots of pictures

 

[JBM]

Good luck if you decide to go ahead, and if there is a foal then we will of course need you to post lots of pictures

Oh don’t worry I’ll be extremely excited! And if anyone has any suggestions of a stud in ireland to match my stunner let me know!

 

[TheMule]

It’s more getting information for hopefully attempting next year so I don’t have anything lined up as of yet
But I’ll be planning to get the good vet out when it happens
Thank you for all the help
I only really wanted to know if it was possible as I know she’s older and I don’t want to stress her out too much so if risk is too much I’d just ditch the idea

This will give you an idea of cost
https://www.bwequinevets.co.uk/99/Equine-Embryo-Transfer/

 

[SilverLinings]

Ahh, I'm not sure whether costs would be different in Ireland to England, so you may get an idea by googling vet breeding services in Ireland.

If it isn't possible for you to breed from her and as you like her so much (she looks lovely) then would you consider looking for a younger relative of hers (full- or half-sibling) either to have them as a riding horse and/or to breed from? You would have similar genetics, although not identical, but even breeding from your mare would be a gamble as every horse is different so the foal might be very different to her personality-wise.

 

[JBM]

Ahh, I'm not sure whether costs would be different in Ireland to England, so you may get an idea by googling vet breeding services in Ireland.

If it isn't possible for you to breed from her and as you like her so much (she looks lovely) then would you consider looking for a younger relative of hers (full- or half-sibling) either to have them as a riding horse and/or to breed from? You would have similar genetics, although not identical, but even breeding from your mare would be a gamble as every horse is different so the foal might be very different to her personality-wise.

I could consider that!
I definitely understand the difference of personality between offspring but I dunno there’s something about having a piece of her when she passes on if you get me

 

[Dexter]

This will give you an idea of cost
https://www.bwequinevets.co.uk/99/Equine-Embryo-Transfer/

Wow prices have dropped significantly over the last decade. Thats all really, really reasonable!

 

[HappyHackerK8]

I went through it with my mare as I didn’t want to have the time away from competing - it didn’t actually work out as the recipient mare ended up not taking and despite her having a foal previously and being a healthy, fit 12 year old mare it was her that didn’t take the embryo! To get to that stage took 4 weeks of vet trips and vet visits of practically every other day for the full four weeks. It was a gruelling exercise for mares and myself alike. The donor and recipient mare both have to have good fertility, they then have to have their cycles synced and regular monitoring/scans so that the fresh semen (best outcome for AI) can be used at exactly the correct time to ensure that both recipient and donor have the best chance. It’s worth noting that most vets who specialise in ET will expect you to have at least two recipients lined up - and hire of these if they do take can be minimum £1500-2000 hire until weaning. I’ve lost count of the vet bill, as there are always unforeseen costs with things like this, but the basic package was £350 AI package plus £2000 ET package with additional fees for scanning any loaned recipients etc etc. We ended up deciding to give my mare the chance at carrying, as she was spot on the first time, and she took again and is now 150 days pregnant! I wouldn’t go through ET again. My vets were amazing, and I guess for some it really works well - but it was a long haul for a negative result even though both mares were young and fertile enough. If you are considering it I would have all the pre checks done on your mare before you shell out the costs etc as in a 20 yo mare you may find she isn’t fertile and will save a lot of time/money. Don’t want to totally put you off - but thought an honest experience may help you decide…

 

[JBM]

I went through it with my mare as I didn’t want to have the time away from competing - it didn’t actually work out as the recipient mare ended up not taking and despite her having a foal previously and being a healthy, fit 12 year old mare it was her that didn’t take the embryo! To get to that stage took 4 weeks of vet trips and vet visits of practically every other day for the full four weeks. It was a gruelling exercise for mares and myself alike. The donor and recipient mare both have to have good fertility, they then have to have their cycles synced and regular monitoring/scans so that the fresh semen (best outcome for AI) can be used at exactly the correct time to ensure that both recipient and donor have the best chance. It’s worth noting that most vets who specialise in ET will expect you to have at least two recipients lined up - and hire of these if they do take can be minimum £1500-2000 hire until weaning. I’ve lost count of the vet bill, as there are always unforeseen costs with things like this, but the basic package was £350 AI package plus £2000 ET package with additional fees for scanning any loaned recipients etc etc. We ended up deciding to give my mare the chance at carrying, as she was spot on the first time, and she took again and is now 150 days pregnant! I wouldn’t go through ET again. My vets were amazing, and I guess for some it really works well - but it was a long haul for a negative result even though both mares were young and fertile enough. If you are considering it I would have all the pre checks done on your mare before you shell out the costs etc as in a 20 yo mare you may find she isn’t fertile and will save a lot of time/money. Don’t want to totally put you off - but thought an honest experience may help you decide…

Thank you that’s super helpful
She’s very much acting like a fertile lady!!! Flirting with every man she sees

 

[druid]

It's cheaper in Ireland - you'll need to go to Larry Dunne (Wicklow) or UCD though and for ICSI all the eggs are sent to Italy still as no one is doing it here

 

[HappyHackerK8]

Thank you that’s super helpful
She’s very much acting like a fertile lady!!! Flirting with every man she sees

Unfortunately regular seasons etc don’t necessarily mean that fertility is in tact, I would definitely get all the pre checks first. Good luck ?