Emergency; Mastiff puppies attacking horses!

[digbydisaster]

Hello Everyone,
I am writing with my fingers crossed that someone can help us, we really need advice. I have a big problem at the moment with my dogs that have started to chase livestock and horses, and it has now become dangerous. I am sorry it is so lengthy but thought it best to fill in all the details!

The back ground to this is that I have two beautiful Neapolitan mastiff puppies (bitches, 17 weeks old) that I have had since they were 7 weeks old. We bought the puppies following a nasty robbery at our farm (we own a ranch in rural Ecuador, South America) and decided we needed some good guard dogs. We chose mastiffs specifically because they are good family and guard dogs and we also have Chihuahuas and mastiffs have a reputation of being gentle giants.

I am a firm devotee of positive only dog training methods and the mastiffs have been trained around 15 minutes every day (several sessions) with a clicker. They are progressing well with sit stay, down stay, recalls, eye contact and leave. They also walk well on a loose lead. They also get 2 walks a day of 20-30 minutes, which will increase as they mature. We work on the ranch all day so they are with us (or can be if they choose) for most of the time every day unless we leave the ranch for the day which is perhaps twice a week. They are outside dogs (there are another 2 older, rescue, outside dogs), but have huge comfy beds beside our front door and we spend most evenings outside with them on the veranda.

Everything was fine with the puppies until two weeks ago. The puppies had been on our ranch with the goats and horses with no problems at all since we got them. They used to play in the goat paddock which is besides our garden and never take any notice of the goats. We also have 5 horses which are in fields surrounding the house and garden, again with no issues. The trouble began because my partner brought our other 2 Chihuahuas from England 4 weeks ago. One is a rescue (Indy) and is very vocal and aggressive towards other dogs in general. However she settled in here no problem with the other dogs (her mate and 2 daughters, plus the bigger dogs). She loves to chase cats (we have 4 rescue cats) and bark at the goats and horses, which then starts all 4 of the Chihuahuas doing this and initially the other dogs did not follow.

The big trouble started around 10 days ago when we came back from walking the 8 dogs and were walking past the 3 goats that had been tied out to graze. Indy started chasing and barking the goats and the mastiffs joined in and before we knew what was happening, they had bitten the goats and were “locked on”, with jaws clamped down on the poor goats which was very difficult to remove despite my fingers in her mouth prizing them apart, and my partner scruffing her neck, at this point they were ignoring any commands, and basically all hell broke loose.

To cut a long story short, this has become an increasingly worse problem in a matter of days, attacks on the goats have occurred several times and which culminated today with one of our horses being bitten by a mastiff which was hanging off its belly, he kicked the puppy and we managed to wrestle the mastiff to the ground and sort the situation out.

I cannot believe that our lovely girls have turned into such animal bothering dogs in such a short time with just the provocation of the new Chihuahuas. I was shocked that they would try anything with a horse as they are so much larger. We have tried to minimize the situations that would invite trouble, for instance only moving the goats once the mastiffs are away on a walk, as until today, the mastiffs would only try anything with the goats if they were walking or moving near them. The goats sleep in a paddock next to the garden but the mastiffs had not bothered going into the paddock by themselves which they could easily do at night if they chose to. We also ensure that the Chihuahuas are shut in the house before any animal moving takes place. For the first time today, one of the mastiffs took herself off into the goat paddock and attacked the goats. No other dogs were involved or provoked this attack.

I would love the advice of a professional, but we simply do not have any dog trainers here in Ecuador, let alone positive ones. I am terrified that the mastiffs will start to attack the horses in the fields. We have now ensured our garden (which is 2 acres so they have plenty of space still) is dog proof so that the mastiffs cannot get out and cause trouble but I was hoping to be able to ride out with the dogs and exercise them when they are older, I do not want to have to keep the mastiffs and horses apart. I know that we need to work on our training more so that they obey the “leave” command or the recall when it is used but does anyone have any advice on how to de-sensitize them to the goats and horses? Or any advice on how to deal with their behavior if they are (god forbid) ever attacking and locked onto one of our animals again? How should they be reprimanded in such a serious situation? I understand that working against a dogs prey drive is difficult but this has only been happening for such a short period of time, I am hoping someone might be able to offer some training ideas to de-sensitize the mastiffs. Many thanks in advance.

 

[CAYLA]

In all honesty, this a bad situation given the breed of these dogs and the damage they can cause at full size let alone puppies, (you need help) out there where you are!!, you needs some one to give both practical and verbal advice in your presence with the dogs (showing you how physically to manage) and explaining the behaviours and where its going wrong, you need an experienced stock control person or an experienced dog handler/trainer NOT internet based advice.

And 2 siblings to boot (double the trouble) double the work and double the keeping of concentration when one follows the other and 2 large breed Bitches, is a recipe for disaster. Is parting with one an option so you may plough your energies into 1 dog?
I would immediately refrain from walking them with the smaller upstarts too, you can always rely on a little ankle biters to rumble a pack of dogs into reaction mode..

 

[Spring Feather]

You have a number of problems going on here which will only get worse if you don't take control of your dogs now. I have a fair bit of experience with Neopolitan Mastiffs and English Mastiff and Neos in particular are serious dogs who need good and constant socialising with people and with other animals. Depending on the particular strain of Neo, they can become very dominant and aggressive dogs in the wrong hands. Even in the right hands, they can be difficult to control.

As far as I can see, from what you've said, it is the typical scenario of those who are used to keeping small dogs and aren't familiar with keeping big dogs. Little dogs should never be allowed to get away with what you are allowing your chi's to get away with. They are the ones causing the problems and unfortunately so many people seem to have this idea that because they are small dogs they shouldn't be treated as dogs. Well they do, and especially if you have Neos! Your little dogs could become fodder for your big dogs if you don't take control. Make no mistake, you have a pack here and you need to take charge of all of your dogs.

Another grave mistake I feel you have made is by getting two puppies from a fairly aggressive breed of dog at the same time. Not much you can do about it now but really one at a time would have made more sense.

Be careful. Read as much as you can on Neos and harness your little dogs exuberance.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Agree with previous posters.

It would be lovely if we could fix all issues using positive methods only, but your dogs have now rewarded themselves with a chase and a catch (but luckily enough, no kill, now on several occassions.)
There is very little you will be able to offer them in terms of food or a ball or praise that will become of higher value than the thrill that this offers them. Punishing them after the event will also be no use as they have already rewarded themselves. With reprimanding them afterwards, you also run the risk of them not making the link, or worse, the dogs trying to sneak in an attack before they can be caught.
You really need to be looking at some sort of consequence for even *thinking about* looking at the livestock at this stage, in my opinion. How you do that is up to you. Once they are locked on or running it is way too late.

Please please keep them away from the livestock physically, either with a fence or a door or a line, never give them the benefit of the doubt and always be ready. I am not going to tell you what I would do if it happens again because I would like to think you are not going to allow it to happen again!

 

[Pendlehog]

Agree with all that's been said above but would also like to add DO NOT put your fingers in the dogs mouth if it ever gets hold of something again! The worst injuries I have seen in my career were caused trying to separate fighting dogs, you are putting yourself in very serious danger particularly as the pups grow older and stronger. In an emergency, try dousing the dog with cold water, 9 times out of 10 this will produce the desired result in a much safer manner.

I know you say there are no formal dog trainers in Argentina, but there will definitely be a good "dog man" out there somewhere that knows what he's doing. Ask a local stockman/farmer in the area, I bet someone can point you in the right direction. The breeder of your pups may also know of a serious dog man that could come and assess the situation.