Emotional horses. Just how much are they capable of?

Wagtail

Wagtail

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Another thread got me thinking about just what level of thought our equine friends are capable of. And in particular, could it be that they could be capable of a very basic level of compassion? I am generally against anthropomorphising animals. However, there are undoubtably examples of dogs and sometimes even horses coming to a human's or other animal's rescue. The current thread by Tracyann tells of her cob saving her from an attack by her other horse. I have seen horses protect others from herd bullies. I have heard of dogs saving their owners from attacks by other dogs or intruders.

So what does this mean? Are our horse and dog friends capable of empathy or compassion? Or are they simply joining in battle and siding with their herd/pack leaders?

I am on the fence with this one but think it would make an interesting discussion.
 
My chestnut mare knows when I'm in pain. Every time that I've been in horrendous pain that has come on while riding, she stops spooking and takes me home carefully. She even once walked calmly by a hedge cutter without even puffing at it (she normally would snort and trot past it fast or even nap a bit before going by).
 
i know that if my 2 year old is in my space and threatens to rear or kick (has done this many times) that taz will chase her off and tell her off, he tells her off for being in my way, getting in my space and generally being a moody cow and he will stop her from doing it again and will chase her to the top of the field and will just stand there watching her

he also took off towards her when she chased bit and kicked my dog and he told her off then with a bite and a kick and he chased her off again

i dont know if this is him being compassionate or if he is teaching her manners but he has helped me out in a lot of stick situations :)
 
Like you said in your post my cob has saved my life but there many other things he done for me.He stood in front of me when there been charging horses in the field Hes grabed someones jacket and shook him when the bloke tried to drag me of my horse and many other things.we are very close been together seventeen years and everyone says our bond is really strong
 
It does appear that some horses are able to view the actions of others as being either dangerous or naughty and try to help out. That would indicate a higher level of thinking than is usually attributed to horses.
 
My gorgeous little spanish man seems to understand my moods. I lost my Nana last year and I wandered into the field and had a good cry. My horse came gently up to me, blew on me and put his head on my shoulder. That made me cry even more!
He has also seemed to notice that I am pregnant, and has been exceptionally careful out riding, and gentle on the ground. Last weekend when my back was hurting and bump felt heavy he took me for the most careful, gentle little plod up the main road, ignoring the speeding traffic. It's so nice to have a horse you can trust like that.
His fieldmate, a big older gelding who I also spend a lot of time also knows I am pregnant. A while ago we had to let a neighbours horses share our field for a few weeks. The mares were very dominant and one had a tendency to kick - not good when you are pregnant! So big gelding herded them all away from me every time, leaving my little man free to come and be caught.
 
My horse changes according to my mood.

Faracat said:
My chestnut mare knows when I'm in pain. Every time that I've been in horrendous pain that has come on while riding, she stops spooking and takes me home carefully. She even once walked calmly by a hedge cutter without even puffing at it (she normally would snort and trot past it fast or even nap a bit before going by).
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noblesteed said:
He has also seemed to notice that I am pregnant, and has been exceptionally careful out riding, and gentle on the ground.
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I believe pain and pregnancy etc you give off a certain chemical smell animals recognise. Like fear. Someone that my mum used to deliver parcels to had a dog and ever since she was pregnant he doesn't leave her alone, follows her everywhere guarding her continuously.
 
I definitely think horses can suffer from grief. My late TB gelding who I lost last Friday had formed an incredible bond with a yearling. He would spend hours playing with him, teaching him, protecting him and they were inseparable. I have never seen such a strong bond between two horses. Sadly, the yearling had to be PTS earlier this year after suffering complications from an anaesthetic. My horse was never the same afterwards. He had had arthritis for a few years, but in the last few months, since his buddy died he deteriorated dramatically. He lost his spirit and he never played with any of the other horses. It was as if he just gave up.
 
I loaned a pony to friends for their severely epileptic daughter. I hadn't seen them for several years and when I did they were in a LR class at a show.
All was going well when the pony suddenly planted and refused to move. The father, leading the pony immediately raised his hat to the judge and lifted daughter off the pony. Two minutes later she was fitting.
I know that dogs are trained to anticipate a fit but this pony had evidently known from about the second week the girl rode him.
 
I do think horses can tell an awful lot - they can tell things by your tone of voice and how you are behaving/moving. I think you do give off vibes if ill etc...
I have a illness which affects my eyes...and sometimes it could start when I was riding or my eyes were very sore when I was riding...my mare would be extra careful and be totally calm no matter what...if I said to her go home she would turn to the nearest point, head home straight away...she is always very careful around me when this happens on the ground too and does everything slowly and she whickers to me when I am moving around her. She can be actually rather moody and temperamental!

She also hates people talking to me and will stand inbetween them and me when they are talking to me!! there are only two people who she doesnt do this too and they are the ones that look after her when I cant.
People who know her have always said the safest place for me is in the corner of her stable as she would never let anyone get at me!!
 
There have been numerous incidences when my cob has protected me in the field from horses that threatened to kick. He brought up my filly from 5 months and if she got too boisterious around me in the field he would be my body guard. He was able to make her stand absolutely still with a look and she had to wait for him to give her permission to move.

Several eye witnesses reported my mare and another senior mare protecting my filly from a stallion that had escaped into the field early one morning. The stallion had bitten the yearling's neck and muzzle, but the two mares were seen taking it in turns the leap several feet in the air beside her for hours in an attempt to keep the stallion at bay. As one tired, the other would resume their defence of her.

I have countless stories of how generous and courageous they have been on my behalf, even when it was at serious risk to themselves.

I always think that people who think horses operate purely on instinct and need to survive, don't really know horses at all.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I loaned a pony to friends for their severely epileptic daughter. I hadn't seen them for several years and when I did they were in a LR class at a show.
All was going well when the pony suddenly planted and refused to move. The father, leading the pony immediately raised his hat to the judge and lifted daughter off the pony. Two minutes later she was fitting.
I know that dogs are trained to anticipate a fit but this pony had evidently known from about the second week the girl rode him.
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Thats incredible.
 
I think horses are a lot more tuned in than we give them credit for. There has been numerous times, usually involving heightened emotion when I've known that my horse has picked up on it and acted accordingly.
Can be anything from pulling off a tight turn in a jump off to a horse protecting it's rider or staying calm when it matters the most.

I was oiling my young TB's hooves. Stupidly I was crouched down in a narrow gap between him and the wall. Suddenly a dog ran round the corner barking scaring the life out of my horse. It happened in a spilt second but I threw my arms to may face in fear as my horse exploded. I don't know what happened and it ended up with my horse breaking free but he didn't touch a hair on my head.
I don't know if that was luck but I caught him and he rested his head on my shoulder and we both stood there shaking and with our hearts racing for a while.
I swear he made the effort not to touch me though. I was pretty much sitting right under him!

There's been numerous other examples. He definitely knows when I'm riding bareback or without stirrups as he carries me so carefully.

Jumping there has been moments where he has read my mind and done his best too.

They definitely think more than we give them credit for. My horse always goes better in a dressage test than he does at home, he knows we are being judged.

I had tons of moments with my late mare too and my old horse before that. It's an unspoken communication.

I think horses become very fond of their owners and they learn what's expected of them. They protect and form bonds with other horses so why not us?

I believe animal communicators (good ones) too. The AC told me my horse said 'I was an absolute bargain because I will never let her down'. Sounds silly but I know that, I feel it when I ride him, hard to explain! He never has let me down, he always performs. He understands how important our endeavours are to me :).
 
All these lovely tales about horses protecting their owners are amazing. Sadly, my own horse of a lifetime is not at all protective of me. We have the most incredible bond, and I know she is very attached to me and will do all kinds of tricks and generally follow me around like a dog. But the times I have fallen off her on the cross country course etc, she has just pi**ed off! :(
 
I think when you spend a lot of time with your horses, dogs and cats they know you inside out and do truly love you. I have a "million" examples of their empathic behaviour. It happens everyday with me and my gang. I suppose I invest a lot of my time with them and do look for support from them.
 
when i'm getting him ready ride, during grooming, my stallion will wrap his neck around me and hold me to him, i put my arms around his head and stroke his face or just stand there, this lasts for some time, this morning he did this while i was grooming both sides of him, its a lovely expression of affection from a horse who was a complete savage when he arrived, it makes me think maybe he is happy and that means a lot to me.
 
I think that horses are capable of the basic emotions: fear, anger, happiness, etc. But I also think they are capable of more complicated emotions such as jealousy. There is no doubt at all that I have witnessed jealousy in my mare, especially since she retired. If I take out any of the other horses in her paddock to groom them or ride etc, she will chase them round and give them a nip when they go back in the field with her. All that is except the gelding who is boss of her. She just pulls a face at him. :D She doesn't do it when other people have taken the horses out for any reason. I can only put it down to jealousy.
 
All emotion/feelings etc is linked to survival of the fittest. So altruism among individuals of a species is either in expectation of it being returned to them at some point, or to a genetically related individual. Most animals are protective towards those who are young or injured, and this serves the species as more survive that way to breed for the future. Horses bond as together they have been safer against predators, especially two mares who bond and raise their foals together, guard while the other sleeps and so on...

For whatever reason, perhaps because we artificially selected for those who bonded with us too, horses can and will bond with humans, showing similar behaviours towards them. Of course, they'll only protect us if they think we can't protect ourselves. My lot are generally firmly sure that I'm the scariest one and will hide behind me if worried. I split up their arguments, rule feed time etc and this is the way I like it. My TB is very cuddly and loving if I'm upset though, and although I'm boss, I listen to her opinions when she expresses them with deed and facial expression, and it's more of a partnership. If I sleep near her field (just outside) in the summer, she'll stand guard over me too.

In terms of protectiveness - OH's pony is protective of him, and of her sharer. She'll guard her sharer jealously from other horses if she's sitting in the field, tries to keep her on if at all possible when riding, and is very loving and protective. If I'm on board, I'm expected to be up to the job of staying on whatever she does - not that she plays up for me, more high jinks occasionally. Our loan pony is equally a different character with her 9yo sharer - totally angelic, and keeps giving her soppy looks, nuzzles etc. So cute!
 
In regards to jealousy, I always remember my boy was out in the field one day(he's very grass orientated) and I rode through the field on another pony someone wanted me to school. My boy lifted his head the first moment hr saw me and stood still and watched me ride through the field and out the gate, stood at the gate and watched until I came back. I caught him later and it was as if he didn't want to 'talk' to me, he was very miffed at the fact I was riding another horse!
 
My horse is allowed to rub her head on my shoulder/back after she's worked (I wear a Mountain Horse body armour jacket lol). Since I broke my back I had to stop her doing it, which she did straight away, no problem. Since allowing it again, she's always very gentle and stays more round my shoulder/arm area - she used to like to get her forehead in the middle of my back.
 
Horses look at other horses body language to know what's going on, I don't think it's too far fetched for them to learn what our body language means. We know horses know sorrow when they've lost their stable mate, or joy when they get released back into the paddock so I think they can learn to recognise our feelings, or at least interpret the our body language. I expect a lot of us have felt low and found a friendly nuzzle in our chest for some comfort.
 
I have never had need for either of my horses to protect me but I do believe they are able to feel emotions. We went up the yard in the summer and our YO was bathing her 3 yo. Elizabeth was asked to give a hand and she did. What she hadn't done was speak to Captain first, he was so jealous! He did everything to get her attention, pretending to open his door, shouting (he rarely calls) etc. As soon as she had been over to say "hi" he was fine quite happy for her to go and help again, just had to get his cuddle. He will also get jealous of Fany if E. goes into Fany's stable before his.

He also gets very anxious and pines for E. and me, he is okay at first but gradually gets worse, not eating well, and being a thorough grump. Then when we get home he is fine with me, just a bit dsitant but sometimes he sulks and refuses to speak to E.However, the best thing I have seen is the pure joy he showed when E. had been away doing her revision, and he had not seen her for 2 weeks.He was at the top of a hill in the field, she called him, he let out the loudest whinny, reared up right, then galloped down the field, rounded away all the horses by the gate and then did his best extended trot back whinnying all the way. He truly loves her and misses her when she is not there.

He can be a stress monster and gets very anxious, if E. comes you can see him relax and calm down, he also hates the vet, so last year when the vet came to sedate him for his dental appointment Cappy did not want him near him, so he was studiously trying to kick the vet whilst being careful to miss E. She said you could see him watching and being careful, luckily he did not catch the vet either.

Fany is less demonstrative but she lets you know how happy she is to see you.

So yes I believe they are emotional beings.

FDC
 
I'd only had Markie for about 6 weeks when I went on holiday. On my return, one of the first things he did was pull my hair with his mouth (no teeth, just lips), quite peculiar! He hasn't done it to me since. However, the first time his old owner came to visit, he did it to her straight away! She said he'd always done it, they owned him for 13 years, and it was his special greeting.
I don't think he would 'save' me in the field. Some days 'boss' gelding comes to the gate and Markie steps out of the way so that I can get rid of the boss whilst he saves his own a$$!
My old Ted had a companion that loved him dearly. He'd always lived alone, before Ted, as he could be agressive with other geldings (ex stallion) and a bit fruity with the mares. They were both retired and really bonded. Ted was PTS and buried in the spot where they both used to stand together. Basil became totally depressed, wouldn't eat, paced around and shouted constantly. Tried him in a different field, stabled and even attempted to put him with another retired but he was definitely grieving. His owner moved him in the end, back to living alone where he was before but it was a long time before he was back to normal.
 
I rescued a horse which had been starved and when I got him back home I put him into a barn with a mare and a youngster who knew him before and a gelding who did not and who is very nasty to new horses (I did not know this at the time). I put out enough piles of hay for each to have their own. I checked him every coupld of hourse throughout the night. The mare guarded him from the aggressive gelding so that he could eat his fill in peace, and did not stop guarding him until he was absolutely full and did not want to eat any more. She did not eat herself until he had stopped eating.

She had nothing to gain by this, he was a gelding. I can't place her behaviour anywhere except in the area that as a human action we would call "caring" and "compassionate".
 
Of course animals haow emotions and feelings, it was not that long ago that we believed afro americans did not have the emotions and feelings we have (white race). It is the same with animals, humans justify their treatment of animals by not ascribing emotions and feelings to them. There was a terrific documentary on this very matter put out a few years ago.

Anger, jealousy, happines, sadness, fear, excitement, worry, nervousness, content, these are things you must see in your horses/animals from day to day.
 
My mare also has to be given '15 mins' when i am not down to do her...the person who does her when i am not there...brings her in and when I am not coming down has to leave her for a bit for her to get used to it before doing her rugs and giving her dinner. If I go away for a couple of days she totally blanks me and looks away from me before she relents!
The guy who looks after her with me is away for a week now...I am dreading it..it takes her days to get used to him not being around (he owns the yard and she adores him!) and we always joke when he comes back what she will do - be extra nice or blank him!!
 
I remember once be protected by my first pony Rocky from being attacked by a very nasty horse that was in the same field as him. I was walking through the field to get Rocky when the nasty horse charged at me with his ears flat back. Rocky was like greased lightening and sent the other horse away. I have nevr forgotten that.

My mare get extremely jealous when I do something with my other horse. If she can hear me in the stable with him ( they are next to each other) she will kick and bang and whinny untill I come out.
 
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