Employ a groom or full livery ?

[HKJ]

Does anyone employ a groom, instead of putting horses on full livery?
Just had a thought...

Does anyone on here hire/employ a private groom to do their horses, instead of putting them on full livery (including riding?)

I have 3 horses, 2 on full livery and 1 at my Mums yard. I pay someone to ride whilst I am away with work ( which is about 14 weeks a year) and
I'm starting to think I might as well hire someone and have the horses at home and looked after by one person, so I can have complete control of everything they do (feed, turnout, exercise)

Has anyone had any experience doing this and what are the pro's and cons?

(also put this in 'stableyard')

 

[dieseldog]

Personally I would avoid having staff like the plague. If you are employing them it is not just the cost of their wages you have to factor in. you have sick pay, maternity/paternity, holiday pay, being sued if they get injured, employers NI, employers insurance, you can't just sack them if they do a bad job, if they phone in sick what happens?

OK that is worse case, but not impossible, and it gets dodgy if someone is freelance if they only work for you as then HMRC doesn't always think they are freelance and they get employed rights etc.

I think you have to look at what it costs and how much you would save employing someone and if it is worth the risk.

 

[lynds81]

Seeing as it doesn't sound like it would be full time (I think I'm reading it right that it is just to look after them other than when you are away when it includes riding?) it might well work out cheaper to employ someone, and as they would not be there full time I think you would get away with it being self-employed.

However, they won't be able to do every day, and should they be ill at last minute notice, you would need to make sure you had a back up plan... Which isn't so easy if they aren't in a yard I wouldn't imagine.

 

[HKJ]

Valid points.

I love doing my own horses and I think the job I would offer someone is..

Thurs - riding 1 or 2 in morning or afternoon (I always ride one before I leave for work) then muck out, bring in and feed/change rugs/groom.

Fri - morning and evening plus riding 3 horses

Sat - morning and evening plus riding 3 horses

Sun - morning and evening (day off for horses)

I would do mon though thurs am.

All I would ask is they be able to cover me when I am away longer - then it would be 7 days a week (horses get ridden 5 times a week) I work most school holidays ( I am a nanny) and sometimes odd days here and there. I am normally away for 2 or 3 weeks at a time.

Does this sound impossible? And what would people expect to be paid?!

 

[ArcticFox]

I have a friend who does horse help stuff, the more people get her to do the cheaper it is so she basically charges £15 an hour plus her driving time

You can work it out from that to see if it is feasible. however she does get cheaper if it is regular as regular work is better than none!

Cx

 

[Honey08]

I used to have a freelance groom. She did one and a half hours a day when I was away at work. If the horses weren't competing, she mucked out 4 stables, turned horses out, made up nets, did waters, swept yard and tidied muck heap. etc If the horses were eventing she rode one and mucked out two stables, or rode both. She did her own insurance etc. It worked very well. She was a competant rider, and had a very experienced horsey family for backup if anything went wrong.. She was £12/hr.

We now just have a girl on Sundays who does the horses and yard in the morning, so that we can have a lie in one day a week.

I prefer having them at home - had one on livery previously, and whereas it worked very well I do like deciding everything myself, and seeing the horses out of the kitchen window!

 

[HotToTrot]

Yonks and yonks ago we had a chap to do my horse (we are going back 15-20 years!!) and that worked out really well. If he couldn't make it, my parents had to step up and sort the horse out (although this only happened under great duress and illicited several comments about Pedigree Chum and the glue factory). I do think it has its advantages, it must be easier to have all of yours in the same place.

I am not so sure that you would have to pay maternity, paternity and NI as presumably you wouldn't be employing the groom per se - you'd more be contracting with them that they would provide services, rather like a baby sitter.

 

[Booboos]

I used a freelance groom for quite a few years and it worked well. She did 3 hours every afternoon weekdays, so I did the mornings and could go to work knowing she could cover in the afternoons. She was a lovely person and flexible, but realistically she had a morning job as well as weekend jobs, so I think there is a limit to how much flexibility you can expect from someone you do not employ full time. The other issue, as people have mentioned, is that you may need cover in an emergency when your groom is sick, can't get to you in bad weather, her car breaks down, etc. I would imagine it would be more difficult to find someone willing to cover some weekdays and weekends, people are looking either for a weekday job or a weekend job as they are also doing something else (where would she find another job from Mon to Thursday if she worked for you?).

Asking someone to work mornings and evenings may also be a bit difficult as it may cost you a lot to pay for all that travelling time (if you are lucky you may find someone really, really close but in most cases a 30 minute drive is the norm) and it would be difficult for them to fit in another job in the afternoon to make ends meet.

Having said that, when we lived in Yorks there were 4 people within 5 miles of each other who kept horses at home and one freelance groom helped everyone out so you might strike lucky.

 

[miss_molly]

If you employ someone freelance then they sort out all their own tax, NI, holiday pay etc. As the hours you are talking about are mainly part time then you would not be their only employer and you just need to pay them a set fee and they sort out all the financy stuff.

I think you should be able to find someone, as most freelance grooms like to have a regular job and then fit in ad hoc stuff around this. If the worry is about sick cover maybe you could employ 2 people. One to do the riding days, and another to do the non riding days and then if one was sick hopefully the other would be able to step in and help as they already know your horses and routine.

There are loads of people after part time work, so try phoning up a few local grooms and ask their avaliability etc. Then if you think it is feaseable make the switch.

 

[wellsat]

I thinking about employing a freelance groom so that I can keep my horse on DIY livery but have help when I'm working long hours. I just wouldn't want to loose control over my horse in the way that you can on full livery.

 

[HKJ]

I agree with you!

I am reasonably happy with 2 of them on full livery, the yard is lovely and people very nice and helpful. There are (of course) things I would do differently, but beggars can't be choosers

I am going to struggle soon, I think.

My mum thinks I should sell one horse, to cut down the costs, but all 3 are very special to me and all are different.

Jesse - owned since 5 months old, now 16. He broke his leg last year and is now back on full work. He is a 17hh wb x Percheron. Not for sale - ever. Is on full livery.

Red - owned since 8 months old - now 9 is the son of my Carnaval Drum mare who died in a horrible way ( not going into it) he is 16.2hh a teddy bear, but can be
Tricky to handle.

Caylinn - owned since april last year, is now 4 years old. A Super bred KWPN who is set to do the BS 4 year old classes this year. She is 15.3hh and on full (compition) livery.

Was hoping a groom would be cheaper, fill in the gaps and give me back control... Now I'm not so sure

Also begining to think that full livery is the way to go - but how can I justify the expense

I'm not rich! I have a mortgage ( got at the same time I brought caylinn)'

Ideas or suggestions anyone ?!?!


Cayli
Red

 

[Booboos]

Might be worth seeing if you can get a sharer to help out with riding and costs.

 

[only_me]

Yep, have had a freelance groom who hacked and mucked out on the days YO was working

They came, mucked out, rode (usually just hacking) and turned out

 

[SO1]

If you are mainly looking at weekends and school holidays you might be able to get a student, maybe someone doing a PhD who is not fixed to hours in a lab but could do with the extra cash.

I think it will also depend on how easy your horses are two handle and if the riding element is exercise or you want them professionally schooled.

Could you look at perhaps getting a sharer plus hiring someone as well so that you have two people to call on as if you rely on one person and they get sick or want a holiday then it could be tricky for you. Unless there is such thing as a grooms agency a bit like a temping agency who will agree to organise the cover for you and make sure you always have someone when you need them.

The freelance people are self employed like a farrier is self employed and they are responsible for paying tax etc.

 

[HKJ]

Thanks for that idea, I never thought about a sharer.

I would have to have someone who knew how to handle horse and ride well. Not asking for a professional to school, just exercise/ hack out.

I only know of one freelance groom, so I guess I would have to advertise for a sharer. The problem is, the most possible horse I have to share is Jesse and he's on full livery. Red is much happier at home, than on a big yard without TLC.

Hmm, back to the drawing board......

 

[MistletoeMegan]

If you employ someone freelance then they sort out all their own tax, NI, holiday pay etc. As the hours you are talking about are mainly part time then you would not be their only employer and you just need to pay them a set fee and they sort out all the financy stuff.

As DieselDog has already pointed out, it really isn't as clear cut as this. Being able to work for other people doesn't not mean that a 'freelance' groom wouldn't be considered as employed by HMRC, there is more to it than that.

Realistically, if someone is regularly working set hours on set days, with the work dictated to them, HMRC would likely fall on the side of employment than self-employment.

Just because many freelance grooms operate as self-employed doesn't make it right.