Employing an apprentice - any experiences to share?

[ginatina]

Looking into employing an apprentice at our business

Had anyone employed, or been an apprentice recently, and can share their experience?

I’m particularly interested to find out about the out-of-work, off-site training.. what people do at this training, and how many hours it takes? And is it good quality?

I have a fab young person in mind that may want to do an apprenticeship with us.

Thanks all

 

[ginatina]

I should confirm as i didn’t make it obvious - ours is an equestrian business and the work the apprentice would do would be a mixture of grooming, riding and business management

 

[Goldenstar]

Many years ago I ran a business that had one person on a scheme that was I place of the scheme today .
They where off the yard one day a week .
Now they are in college more I know loads of people who have them and those involved with running schemes.
It’s a better system now for the young person involved more structured and much assessment .

 

[Shilasdair]

I don't know much about apprenticeships these days - but I think that they have to be offered by a training provider, and then placed with employers.
This link seems to have information (mind you, I'd take everything the BGA say with a pinch of salt).
https://britishgrooms.org.uk/training/horse-groom-training/apprenticeships

 

[ihatework]

Give Haddon a call and they will talk you through it.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

You can have a current employee go on an apprenticeship or recurit through a provider.

I have just finished a l3 in buisness admin. Feel free to pm me.

They need 20% off the job training each week for study and it has to be logged down.

 

[ginatina]

Thanks slightly

So for 20% off the job training, on a 5 day work week that's effectively 1 day a week.. As I understand it, the employer still pays a salary for those hours, which does seem to make it quite expensive for the employer? Did you receive a salary for the hours when you were studying?

Also, did you mostly do your study at a college, or perhaps via online learning or something else?

 

[teapot]

Thanks slightly

So for 20% off the job training, on a 5 day work week that's effectively 1 day a week.. As I understand it, the employer still pays a salary for those hours, which does seem to make it quite expensive for the employer? Did you receive a salary for the hours when you were studying?

Also, did you mostly do your study at a college, or perhaps via online learning or something else?

Am just about to go into a meeting but will pm you. Apprenticeships can work out as quite expensive, and lots of caveats re hours/which days of the week they work dependent on age, quality of training etc.

 

[Carlosmum]

We have had several apprentices on the farm. Communication with the college is the most important part. We have used 2 different colleges, one better that the other, but neither was good enough on the communication between employer and tutors. As the employer it takes a lot of time to put in the training needed, its not just 'cheap' labour. Our youngsters worked a 39 hour week, which included one day a week at college during term time. During holidays it was a full 39 hour week on the farm.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Thanks slightly

So for 20% off the job training, on a 5 day work week that's effectively 1 day a week.. As I understand it, the employer still pays a salary for those hours, which does seem to make it quite expensive for the employer? Did you receive a salary for the hours when you were studying?

Also, did you mostly do your study at a college, or perhaps via online learning or something else?

Yes that is correct.

I did a mix of college, online when covid hit and studying at home.

I had to submit my work onto a platform called onefile so my manager could see i was doing my work.

It is and isnt expensive for the employer. You are training someone to benefit your business.

 

[ihatework]

Thanks slightly

So for 20% off the job training, on a 5 day work week that's effectively 1 day a week.. As I understand it, the employer still pays a salary for those hours, which does seem to make it quite expensive for the employer? Did you receive a salary for the hours when you were studying?

Also, did you mostly do your study at a college, or perhaps via online learning or something else?

The hourly rate is quite low though.
If you get a good productive apprentice that you foresee staying after the apprenticeship then there is huge merit. If you get a work shy college kid then all it does is tick government tick box and infuriate you.
It’s all about the individual, get that right and the scheme works.

 

[ginatina]

Thank you everyone, lots of food for thought here

I have a great young person in mind, but wanted to do thorough research before approaching the subject with her.

The apprentice hourly rate of £4.80 is shockingly low, I don't think I could ask anyone to work for that!

But then I guess when you factor in all the hours of training and support it takes out of the working week, and the extra responsibility of having a young and potentially more vulnerable person at your business, they do need to be prepared to work for a lower rate than normal.. with view to moving to a decent rate once the apprenticeship is completed.

 

[ihatework]

Thank you everyone, lots of food for thought here

I have a great young person in mind, but wanted to do thorough research before approaching the subject with her.

The apprentice hourly rate of £4.80 is shockingly low, I don't think I could ask anyone to work for that!

But then I guess when you factor in all the hours of training and support it takes out of the working week, and the extra responsibility of having a young and potentially more vulnerable person at your business, they do need to be prepared to work for a lower rate than normal.. with view to moving to a decent rate once the apprenticeship is completed.

Exactly!
This is on the job training. They need to be treated well and you need to invest time in them. I mean they could be at uni racking up debt? But instead they get paid to learn.

ETA - and from your perspective you get to try before you commit to employment and all the hoops you have to jump through. You will find out if you have a good or useless one in the apprenticeship, so at least you don’t need to find a way to get rid of the latter, the college deals with that!

 

[SO1]

I have had them in previous non equine roles.

One was dreadful and we had to terminate their contract their home life was such they were really not in a suitable situation to work or train. I expect they were doing it as their benefits would have been removed if they were not seem to be doing something.

The second one was excellent and very motivated.

Yes we had to give them study time every week and this was paid time. A tutor came in for the study day as we had a few at my last work in different teams.

They are very cheap as they are technically a student who is learning on the job and they have a curriculum so you have to make sure they do certain tasks to ensure the curriculum is covered you cannot just use them for menial tasks they have to be set learning skills.

Many young people may choose apprenticeship as it is cheaper than going to university and you get qualifications and work experience. Many apprentices are then offered permanent roles within the same company once they have completed their training.

Thank you everyone, lots of food for thought here

I have a great young person in mind, but wanted to do thorough research before approaching the subject with her.

The apprentice hourly rate of £4.80 is shockingly low, I don't think I could ask anyone to work for that!

But then I guess when you factor in all the hours of training and support it takes out of the working week, and the extra responsibility of having a young and potentially more vulnerable person at your business, they do need to be prepared to work for a lower rate than normal.. with view to moving to a decent rate once the apprenticeship is completed.

 

[scats]

Not equestrian related, but I help run a college that provides apprenticeship training in animal care and dog grooming.
PM me if you have questions about anything related to apprenticeships.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Also as a side note, you can chose to pay more if you want.

I was earning more than the other apprentices in my class as my company wanted to be able to give us something to live on.

 

[sport horse]

Thank you everyone, lots of food for thought here

I have a great young person in mind, but wanted to do thorough research before approaching the subject with her.

The apprentice hourly rate of £4.80 is shockingly low, I don't think I could ask anyone to work for that!

But then I guess when you factor in all the hours of training and support it takes out of the working week, and the extra responsibility of having a young and potentially more vulnerable person at your business, they do need to be prepared to work for a lower rate than normal.. with view to moving to a decent rate once the apprenticeship is completed.

If you are doing the proper training it is actually quite time consuming - not only the apprentice's time but the person allocated to oversee and help the apprentice. Unless it has changed, you were not able to leave the apprentice alone in the yard which can cause problems for the smaller yards.

 

[teapot]

Right so, they have to be treated by any other PAYE employee, minimum of 20% training across a five day week (many will need more as it includes Maths and English training, not just their subject per se), minimum one year contract, am fairly sure they can't be left alone/sole charge. If under 18 have to have minimum 36hrs off in one go, or two days together. Max 40hr week/8 hour day.

Also think about how they'll get to your place of employment - under 17s wont be driving, public transport is expensive and/or limited unless you're lucky. If you're thinking equine, it'll cost you £1000 minium to get them through their Stage 1 to Stage 3 if you wanted to develop them properly etc.

Haddon is pretty good, Keits are less so, and there is Govt funding too. Better off in pairs as they can buddy up.

We had a couple of apprentices in my last job, but gave up because it wasn't cost effective, 20% training can be hard to provide in busy schedules, used by the appentices as a stepping stone to better things (unless you're happy starting again every 18 months)

 

[ginatina]

Thanks again everyone - after today's research I feel like the time might not be right for us. We're expanding, so at some point will need to emply a yard manager. At that stage, having someone else who is senior who can oversee the apprentice alongside me would probably work much better. At the moment it's mainly just me, and I feel it might be quite intense on both me and the apprentice!

I think we might be better spending our budget on a more qualified person who would do less hours, but work a lot more efficiently and bring more of their own experience and ideas to the job.

Really appreciate everyone's input, thank you!

 

[little_critter]

Ref the 20% off the job training (I have employees going through an accountancy apprenticeship who have to do this).
This doesn’t necessarily mean they are not at work. The 20% off the job training can be teaching them something new that they will need to use in their job (say they’ve not clipped before, showing them how to clip would count towards the 20% off the job training)

 

[teapot]

Ref the 20% off the job training (I have employees going through an accountancy apprenticeship who have to do this).
This doesn’t necessarily mean they are not at work. The 20% off the job training can be teaching them something new that they will need to use in their job (say they’ve not clipped before, showing them how to clip would count towards the 20% off the job training)

Yes it would, but 20% out of a five day week in a yard where everything has to be documented/written down/signed off can eat into working hours, if you don't have office staff to handle it like I was doing

 

[scats]

Yes, off the job can also be any new skills that count towards meeting any of their standards/criteria.

 

[Millie-Rose]

Having done it (employed a yard apprentice) I wouldn't do it again. There was a lot of work to do on my part in making sure they did their college work (they weren't very self motivated so had to sit with them the whole time) their skills needed to be evidenced with videos you will need to take and every week there were grading forms, travel forms etc to complete and send. To do it properly I decided it was much less hassle to employ someone on normal terms. I understand many employers don't really bother with their apprentices and for them it's probably a good deal but not to do it properly. The training provider my girl used sent videos which she had to watch and answer questions on these would be mucking out a stable etc etc and were done by famous riders. A particular hi-light was the shavings mucking out video in which said famous rider declared "we don't worry about it too much if we throw clean away as our shavings are supplied by our sponsor" Well I have to pay for mine so don't teach them to waste them!

 

[ginatina]

A particular hi-light was the shavings mucking out video in which said famous rider declared "we don't worry about it too much if we throw clean away as our shavings are supplied by our sponsor" Well I have to pay for mine so don't teach them to waste them!

Ah god, yup that would drive me crazy!

Thanks for this Millie-Rose, I think i'm coming to this same conclusion. A business needs more capacity to do it right than we have currently, and like you i wouldn't be happy to just wing it with a young person, as I can imagine some yards do!

 

[Sossigpoker]

My yard is struggling to find an apprentice as more often or not, they last a week max before giving up as -shock , horror- it's hard work !
It's a nightmare finding a kid (they seem to be kids even age 20) who isn't horrified by having to do actual work.

Apparently expecting some poo picking , mucking out a few stables to a high standard and filling hay nets is too much to do in half a day.

 

[teapot]

Ah god, yup that would drive me crazy!

Thanks for this Millie-Rose, I think i'm coming to this same conclusion. A business needs more capacity to do it right than we have currently, and like you i wouldn't be happy to just wing it with a young person, as I can imagine some yards do!

It was hard to manage in a medium sized commerical yard, how anyone on the small side does it is beyond me!