EMS.....in 24 year old pony

unicornystar

unicornystar

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I recently got my chap back at home who suffers from EMS and his "loaner" has done a great job keeping him trim and exercising him. However I was quite shocked at how stiff he is in his back end (he is section D x and very strong/buzzy type, this hasn't changed!!).

However, he is now clipped and for the first time ever I can see his ribs (not badly I hasten to add and its better thinner than fat wit his EMS) but I have started to give them a little haylage as it is a small field and no grass to speak of, they looked and are hungry.

I was thinking maybe turmeric (along with cider vinegar in another tiny feed) may help this chap as his back legs are very very stiff indeed, the worst I have seem them.

He cant have hay as has COPD too!! Doesn't stop him charging round the countryside when hacked but trying to ensure I don't feed him too much but he has the ability to stay warm over the winter as he lives out.

Anyone got experience with EMS??
 
Could you give him a feed of something like Speedibeet? Or have a look at soaked hay replacers maybe. Would mean he has a bit more going through him without tipping him over the edge.

Would highly recommend joining the Laminitis Site FB page and asking Andrea for advice, she is incredibly knowledgable.

Re: his stiff legs. Personally I've never found turmeric effective at all and if he is very, very stiff I'd start with some devils claw/no bute and if it doesn't help I'd be asking the vet to have a look to be honest.
 
Unicornystar, the ribs showing is all part of EMS. They can be fat as a fool and you will still be able to count every rib.

So it has nothing to do with how much food he is getting.

With regard to him looking hungry, with mine, she was permanently ravenously hungry, you could actually see her ramming as much food in her face as was possible, at any opportunity, this again is the EMS.

EMS is tough, and sadly it will only get tougher. Good luck
 
Have you considered feeding vit E to help with the hind end stiffness. It has made a lot of difference to ours. You need good quantities of it, if a sec D is around 500kg then you would be looking at 5000iu or so a day. It is important to use a good quality one, I use equimins vit E oil. Lots of info if you google vit e and horse. Vit E is in grass in the summer, little in the winter and little in hay. So if the horse is on no grass in a small field it is probably getting very little vit E. If grass has been restricted in the past, as with many EMS horses, it may have been short. I would also feed an older horse and EMS one (or cushings horse) a good quality supplement.

Ravenously hungry and ramming in food for mine was cushings. I treated the cushings and his appetite became normal. I appreciate that is cronkmooar's horse. OP has your chap been tested for cushings? I would be keeping a close eye on that in any 24yo horse and definitely one with EMS.
 
I have one with EMS (and PPID).

I feed her Goats Rue Herb, it's the herb that metformin is based on, you can buy it from Thunderbrook and she's been looking a lot more normal since using it. I feed her Thunderbrook Base mix with grass chaff, this has really helped her stiffness as it has linseed in.
 
thank you for all your suggestions and ideas. He seems to do really well on just careful management, so I will stick with this I just noticed when he was being clipped how stiff he was behind (probably not helped by being in with my horse who wanted instant friendship and has no idea about personal space!). Fortunately they are best buddies now and Mr EMS old boy seems really happy and relaxed.

Oddly though he doesnt have the pot belly that the shetland has.......definately going to try some of the herbs and vits that have been suggested, maybe not all at the same time tho!!

x
 
I have a similar issue as my EMS boy also coughs on hay. I feed speedibeet and a mug of linseed. At the moment I'm trying out those timothy hay blocks which are going down very well, alongside easypack oat straw (feed grade), as it's vacuum packed, less dusty than hay and more fibrous.
 
cronkmooar said:
Unicornystar, the ribs showing is all part of EMS. They can be fat as a fool and you will still be able to count every rib.

So it has nothing to do with how much food he is getting.

With regard to him looking hungry, with mine, she was permanently ravenously hungry, you could actually see her ramming as much food in her face as was possible, at any opportunity, this again is the EMS.

EMS is tough, and sadly it will only get tougher. Good luck
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing EMS with Cushings (PPID)

EMS is not a disease....it is a collection of factors which make a horse or pony more susceptible to Laminitis. It is 100% reversible with management ie diet and exercise.
It can however, be a sign of Cushing's and if your horse or pony is ribby and pot bellied despite a good appetite then that is a clinical sign of that. EMS ponies are basically fat all over with fat pads.
 
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unicornystar said:
I recently got my chap back at home who suffers from EMS and his "loaner" has done a great job keeping him trim and exercising him. However I was quite shocked at how stiff he is in his back end (he is section D x and very strong/buzzy type, this hasn't changed!!).

However, he is now clipped and for the first time ever I can see his ribs (not badly I hasten to add and its better thinner than fat wit his EMS) but I have started to give them a little haylage as it is a small field and no grass to speak of, they looked and are hungry.

I was thinking maybe turmeric (along with cider vinegar in another tiny feed) may help this chap as his back legs are very very stiff indeed, the worst I have seem them.

He cant have hay as has COPD too!! Doesn't stop him charging round the countryside when hacked but trying to ensure I don't feed him too much but he has the ability to stay warm over the winter as he lives out.

Anyone got experience with EMS??
Click to expand...

If you get your hay/haylage tested you will know whether it is suitable for your horse with EMS. Haylage can actually be lower in sugars than alot of hays. Many suppliers do a version suitable for fatties so its worth checking.
 
Thank you HP. I didn't think EMS was a ribby thing!! quite the opposite......in the few years the loaner has managed him she has done so well in keeping him fit and active, this chap doesn't benefit from a long plod he needs serious mileage and is section D "go all day" nutty type!!.

He looks better for a "little" haylage but all fatty deposits that he used to have from previous owner have gone other than the neck which I don't think with all the will in the world will ever completely go but it is definitely better....

The Shetland is defo showing cushings signs, pot bellied fat and odd bouts of lammy which are now under control, doesn't lose coat etc another blood test due for him.

The Section D x is really looking great and is just "old" although doesn't help himself being such a live wire does get stiff in the back end after larking about in the field. I will get the haylage tested just to be sure!!!

many thanks
 
_HP_ said:
I think you are confusing EMS with Cushings (PPID)

EMS is not a disease....it is a collection of factors which make a horse or pony more susceptible to Laminitis. It is 100% reversible with management ie diet and exercise.
It can however, be a sign of Cushing's and if your horse or pony is ribby and pot bellied despite a good appetite then that is a clinical sign of that. EMS ponies are basically fat all over with fat pads.
Click to expand...

I don't think that this is strictly true. EMS is genetically predisposed in some breeds and requires lifetime close management and is not 100% reversible. Even when kept slim any slight variation in diet e.g. Due to seasonal changes in sugar levels in grass can trigger lami. My sister has been managing such a pony for about 10 years.
 
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She hasn't got cushings she's been tested for that. I've read the articles and others and it's clear some horses are genetically predisposed to be insulin resistant. You can't cure that therefore it is not 100 percent reversible as you stated. No stone has been left unturned by my sister who by the way is 60 and worked with horses most of her life 😄 in case you thought she was a child. I did write a more lengthy reply but my iPad either posts before I've finished or doesn't submit its a nuisance 😡
 
There are alot of false negative results in the cushings test so clinical signs need to be used alongside it. A pony that is getting Laminitis caused by seasonal changes but is ribby would be a clinical sign....
Re your sister and her pony..?. Her age and experience isnt something I really thought about...I was just passing on some advice regardless 😃
 
I had an end pony which went on to develop Cushing's, she had the classic big neck and backside but skinny over her ribs. She was carefully managed for years, but the combination of ems plus Cushing's made it difficult to give a good quality of life towards the end and I had her pts at 22 years old.

If you want more quality years from your horse I would retest for Cushing's and perhaps ask for a trial of prascend.
 
I must be very fortunate then as mine defo has EMS but in no way looks poor, just wanted a tiny bit extra on him before winter as he lives out and don't want to be stuffing him silly full of calories later through winter when he is better with a steady stream of fibre.
 
According to the Laminitis Site, EMS is reversible with the correct management.

If you haven't already I would strongly recommend looking them up. They are very good at answering queries on the FB page.

Also, if the cushings test wasn't recent I would definitely test again.
 
My old pony had EMS, like yours he was better on the thinner side. No experience of the stiffness though. Hope you get to the bottom soon :)
 
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