encouraging more ' hind leg flexion/ engagement ' in canter

charlie76

charlie76

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 March 2006
Messages
4,665
Visit site
Tricky one this! My rheinlander gelding has a super walk and trot and gained 66% in his second advanced medium so cant complain however his canter really let's him down. To be fair, he is better at shows and gets an average of 7/ 7.5 for his canter work but it could be a lot better and when I school him at home for some reason its even more naff!
My trainer said he isn't sure what to do as at home he would give the canter a four or five as it's rubbish but he doesn't want to mess with it to much as his score for canter isn't bad! So either he is better at shows or the judges don't see what we see/ feel!

The canter lacks jump and impulsion, he become very straight in his hind leg and never really engages or pushes from behind. He canters with a very straight hind leg.
My instinct tells me to do lots of in and back,transitions within the pace but this makes it worse.
I have watched him on the lunge and he still does it so its not me/ saddle.

I have him checked and treated regularly by a chiropractor and sports therapist and he has been seen by the vet for lameness checks and flexion tests, vet also seen him lunge, and all agree he is totally sound. The therapists never find a great deal wrong either.

It also affects his marks in his changes as he can't push through enough for clean changes so he either is late behind, bucks or sneaks a cheaky trot step in.

Any suggestions?
Thanks
 
Yep, it makes no difference. Done it both on the lunge and under saddle. The annoying thing is , in trot he has a huge amount of push and enagaement.... Lazy fat wb!
 
As he is better when out, adrenaline kicks in so he gains more jump, I would do a bute trial it may be low grade pain limiting his movement if he improves you have somewhere to start if he doesn't you haven't lost anything although it will not definitively discount pain. That he gets worse doing transitions within the pace suggest to me there is something amiss as he is working at a level which requires everything to be functioning correctly so not down to basic lack of ability or training.

I had one int event mare here that was sound but not quite right in canter, lacking push, she trotted sound, passed flexions and nothing showed except in canter if you really watched how she placed her foot, she had early bony changes in her fetlock joint.
 
Last edited:
I don't really jump him as I'm not a fan!
Be positive.I did consider that it might be pain related hence the vet etc. They said he was totally sound but I might well still do the bute test as you said,I've nothing to lose.
 
charlie76 said:
I don't really jump him as I'm not a fan!
Be positive.I did consider that it might be pain related hence the vet etc. They said he was totally sound but I might well still do the bute test as you said,I've nothing to lose.
Click to expand...

The horse I am currently rehabbing for the second time was supposedly sound according to the vets, a bute trial proved otherwise.
 
Goldenstar, I will try that tomorrow. My chiro said perhaps he doesn't like my surface, it always tides well with the others and my liveries love it but maybe he doesn't. Will try and let you know, if no different will try the bute. I don't want to kick him up the bum if he hurts.
 
I had a lesson yesterday and we were having a little play around to see what was likely to help most in strengthening/improving the canter in one of my horses who is just about to step up to Medium.

The most beneficial things were canter/halt/rein back/canter, which really helped to shift the weight back, improve engagement and lighten the forehand; then shoulder-in followed by shoulder-in/renvers/shoulder-in down the long side - again this really helped to get the hind leg stepping under.

Possibly worth a try once you've eliminated any problems?
 
I'm usually the last one to cry 'vet', but it strikes me that you may have a bilateral hindlimb problem, possibly something like sacroiliac. It would be hard to spot by watching the horse move and probably wouldn't produce positive flexions. Diagnosis would be by either responce to blocking or response to medication of the joint.

If I'm completely wrong (hopefully!), then the exercise that helps mine most is shoulder -in in counter canter (flexed away from the leading leg ie into the centre of the school) and counter canter on a circle with bend to the centre of the circle.
 
Gamebird, I think he moves to well in trot to be si ( fingers crossed! ) my trainer did the counter bend exercise last week and he did improve so I hope its just a training issue.
 
Bilateral issues can show up more in canter than other gates so I would say doing a bute trial as a base text would be a good idea. If nothing changes there are a few things that I would be thinking of trying but as I don't know you or the training level of the horse, could you please post what movements you are currently training in at home. I don't want to suggest anything that is beyond the level of the horse as trying it will just increase tension and defeat the object of the exercise. Pm me instead if you want, but just the things he can comfortably do at home and maybe that you are starting on would be good. It's not a common problem, but it is one that I have seen before and also, if you have any videos of you riding, again you can PM if you prefer...I can see if one of the issues I think it could be can be seen.

Cheryl xx
 
Fides said:
Pst GG everyone now knows you're a girl!!
Click to expand...

They didn't before??? That's slightly worrying, lol ;)

charlie76 said:
Ha ha! GG has watched the vids and doesn't think its pain related. GG.. I'm happy for you to relay your thoughts here. X
Click to expand...

Yeah I really don't. I think it is only 30% a physical thing and 70% a mental block (horse not Charlie76) and he's basically very open in the pelvis, so from what I can see his stifle movement and the power he creates is something he can handle well in walk and trot but seems hesitant to really use in the canter. Lovely, lovely horse, just my type. Very capable laterally.

In the way we can sometimes overcook our approach to teaching a horse flying changes....which is essentially something they can do just hours after birth....it strikes me like he almost needs to learn to canter again, like his brain is getting in the way. I know why this is and it is no fault of charlie76....he really is trying for you charlie76...it's definitely not you. I will post up the exercises I have in mind here tomorrow between meetings but hopefully I can get down and meet you both in the next week or two :)
 
My little mare has the same problem - prefers to canter very 'straight' and not flex the hind leg. Exercises that help are firstly trotting pols and then jumping - it fires her up a bit so we get quite different movement after she has done a few jumps, LOL. In the warm up I walk then start introducing lateral work, making sure she is stepping under. After the trot I do walk to canter to get her thinking forward but keeping the weight back, and in canter I do canter leg yield, again to get the hind leg under. The above seem to work and def improve her canter. It will never be her best pace, but it's a lot better !
 
counter canter leg yield will encourage a bigger split in the hind leg and once you have a bigger split the inside hind takes a bigger step under and by virtue of that the horse is forced to flex its hips and hocks and sit down behind.

canter shoulder in will probably make him even straighter and more croup high at this point.

does he do half steps? half steps in to canter is good.

also, canter round short side, walk in corner, halt as soon as straight up long side, rein back 2/3 steps then straight in to medium canter. Again makes them fold the hips and sit down.

working piris then leg yield out too.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
counter canter leg yield will encourage a bigger split in the hind leg and once you have a bigger split the inside hind takes a bigger step under and by virtue of that the horse is forced to flex its hips and hocks and sit down behind.

canter shoulder in will probably make him even straighter and more croup high at this point.

does he do half steps? half steps in to canter is good.

also, canter round short side, walk in corner, halt as soon as straight up long side, rein back 2/3 steps then straight in to medium canter. Again makes them fold the hips and sit down.

working piris then leg yield out too.
Click to expand...

This is some of the stuff I have in mind too. He's a very capable horse from what I have seen, but there's something else I think might just unlock it mentally as well as physically so hopefully I can get down to see them both soon.

I also LOVE the canter short side, walk, halt, rein back, medium exercise. It's like putting nitro fuel in the power tank :)
 
Thank you. I'm riding him later so will give some of the exercises a try. Yes he does do half steps so can try that. PS . you are my friend on FB so feel free to check out the pics/ vids of him. He's the chestnut.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
counter canter leg yield will encourage a bigger split in the hind leg and once you have a bigger split the inside hind takes a bigger step under and by virtue of that the horse is forced to flex its hips and hocks and sit down behind.
Click to expand...

By counter canter leg yield do you mean leg yield away from the leading leg?
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
no towards.
so turn down the centre line in eg right canter then LY back over towards the right. so HP with the opposite bend/flexion.
Click to expand...

Exactly how I would explain it. HP with an opposite flexion. Very good for many things, as well as helping the OP. Helps in getting a horse more supple through the body and unlock the poll when tension builds up there.
 
charlie76 said:
I don't really jump him as I'm not a fan!
Be positive.I did consider that it might be pain related hence the vet etc. They said he was totally sound but I might well still do the bute test as you said,I've nothing to lose.
Click to expand...

hard to say anything by only reading a description... anyway, if you are not a fun of jumping, go hacking. I would do rhythmical, under control but open, with wide foule canters plus hill work. Canter up hill to make him push (horsey gym! :D ), under control of course, rein back on the small slopes... If you haven't tried it yet :) if the horse has been checked and is not lame, why do you want to bute him? If the hindlegs are "straight", not wanting to work properly (especially if you have the push in trot) it is very often back issue (especially if the horse is bucking/late behind in changes!)... I hope you will find the way! Give him (her?) time :) all best!
 
Magda Mucha said:
hard to say anything by only reading a description... anyway, if you are not a fun of jumping, go hacking. I would do rhythmical, under control but open, with wide foule canters plus hill work. Canter up hill to make him push (horsey gym! :D ), under control of course, rein back on the small slopes... If you haven't tried it yet :) if the horse has been checked and is not lame, why do you want to bute him? If the hindlegs are "straight", not wanting to work properly (especially if you have the push in trot) it is very often back issue (especially if the horse is bucking/late behind in changes!)... I hope you will find the way! Give him (her?) time :) all best!
Click to expand...

She hasn't said she wants to bute him. A few suggested a bute trial and it's not a bad idea...it can prove that there is a pain reaction somewhere as vet exams can't always show up everything. Agree re the hacking exercises.
 
Right. Quick update. I did the canter short side, halt, rein back and medium canter and after three attempts.. Bingo! Hind legs were def flexing and pushing more. I will keep doing this and any other exercise suggestions as he showed no signs of pain.
I will add, as it may be a factor, his last owner, by her own admittance , was scared of him so always rode him very under powered so its almost as though he has learnt/ was trained to canter in a non expressive way.
 
charlie76 said:
Right. Quick update. I did the canter short side, halt, rein back and medium canter and after three attempts.. Bingo! Hind legs were def flexing and pushing more. I will keep doing this and any other exercise suggestions as he showed no signs of pain.
I will add, as it may be a factor, his last owner, by her own admittance , was scared of him so always rode him very under powered so its almost as though he has learnt/ was trained to canter in a non expressive way.
Click to expand...

Sounds good. I can come next Monday if that's any good for you :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top