Endurance , whats going on?

That must be getting on for nearly 10 years ago. Rider took responsibility as they have to, but was riding a horse she had no involvement in the training of, again from big stable based in certain part of globe. Whilst a GB person took the hit in terms of sanction, in real life they were not implicated in the wrong doing nor vilified for it.

This is different, it's a rider that works in one of these stables, using one of their horses, trained under their regieme (combination have competed together recently), crewed by their crew, with GB staff denied access on the day. Hopefully what has happened will come out with investigation. Which person who was responsible for the cheating needs to be found. Did they do it to try & get the horse to win, were they paid to cheat, is it just standard practice in some circles, who knows but they are very serious questions. Was it done to improve the result or to smear team GB who have stood against drug abuse?

That we were foolish enough to use a horse from a certain part of the globe to represent us nationally in order to try & medal is beyond doubt. I'm not saying we shouldn't select riders based abroad (couple of GB internationals based in US), but not use those from certain places unless they can show they are clean all year & allow full access to GB staff at the event. There was at least one other very talented, experienced combination ready to go denied a place as they wanted to fly their horse out. We should not copy others, use their methods or their horses. We are who we are, we should send our best produced cleanly in our own system. So we are a nation of small owners, with less horses to pick from. Let's produce quality over quantity, with a clear, supportive framework for potential & regular team members. This needs to be a defining moment to overhaul the international system here so positive comes from it. We have some great combinations.

Maybe there needs to be a split, between endurance RACING, fast over flat tracks, & ENDURANCE races over tough hilly terrain where good riding at necessary lower speeds because of the toughness of the course.
 
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FEI PRESS RELEASE
Lausanne (SUI), 25 September 2013


Statement from FEI President HRH Princess Haya on FEI Governance

"In my first meeting in Lausanne with the FEI Bureau after my election in 2006, I proposed limiting FEI Presidents to two four-year terms. I suggested that reform, which was later adopted as an FEI Statute, because it is essential to ensure fresh thinking and avoid a sense of entitlement within the leadership of an International Sport Federation.

Whilst I very much appreciate and am honoured by efforts of the FEI Regional Group Chairpersons and the National Federations to amend the FEI Statutes to permit me, or any FEI President to seek a third term, my views on the benefits of a two-term limit have not changed since the day I was elected. I love being FEI President. I am passionate about the work and our sport. I love the people I work with at the National Federations and at headquarters.

However, I cannot in good conscience put aside my beliefs and the commitment I made seven years ago now that the term limit I supported applies to me. I am deeply grateful to all the National Federations that favour changing the Statutes to allow me a third term. I am confident they will understand why I feel I must keep my word when my current term ends next year.

I was first elected to this job seven years ago because our National Federations wanted transparency, good governance and change and I promised a transformational presidency. Together, through thick and thin, we have achieved more than 80% of all pledges laid down in my manifesto and programme in an open, democratic and transparent manner. I am so very proud of the people who worked together with me to achieve this.

My focus in my final year in office is on delivering the remaining pledges. I will complete this shared mission with respect, determination and energy — and with the support of the entire community and above all the help from 132 National Federations.

I intend to leave the FEI in November 2014 knowing that our International Federation is fit for the future. I will work as hard as ever towards that goal until my final day in office. And then I will step aside, confident that I have done the right thing."
 
EstherYoung, sadly I am so ancient I competed in Endurance when there were no prizes, not even in kind. It was IMO a much better sport in those days, even though I also witnessed cheating, it was minor and didn't compromise horse welfare.
 
It has very much been a case of the golden rule: they who have the gold, rule.

The conerns over the direction of the sport are world wide - exactly the same comments are prevelent on NZ and Australian web sites as well.

As a rider, I was always proud of our record and the sports core belief that we looked after our horses. And we do - as has been observed for the most part we are owner/riders/grooms/breeders and trainers. Not so much in other parts of the world.
 
Glad EGB not alone, seems to be huge split between professional competitors, & very professional amateur competitors. Very proud to be an amateur only owning 2 horses for whom I do everything. Maybe there should be a major championship over serious terrain, would love to see 'those' countries try & thrash their horses over the moors! Definatley wouldn't be going over 20kph there. They used to enter Cirencester, in EGB terms a flat fast track, however that stopped after a couple of years (& they weren't missed, used to pay to erect huge tents at end of trot up, very noisey generators, ice trucks, helicopters flying in when vettings going on). Never saw them attempt a serious track. They soon were only doing their own (very flat easy course) at Euston.
 
pip6 said:
Glad EGB not alone
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Oh EGB is absolutely not alone. We had some lovely Australian visitors at Lions Tail last weekend and talking to them was like listening to a carbon copy of our issues....

I was trying to find the link the other day about the horses that were found abandoned in the desert a few years back which were identified as Australian endurance horses who had been purchased for $$$$$$$$. I seem to remember it was at an abandonded riding school. Only the reports on t'interweb seem to have disappeared. Maybe someone still has a working link?

Wicklow wasn't an easy ride, but at Wicklow the year we came back disgusted certain parties were building temporary roads over dodgy going prior to the event (whether the farmers whose land it was had any idea I don't know), and were taking shortcuts round the big hill even though everyone else had to go over the top of it. Interesting interpretations of 'outside assistance' too. But ILDRA firmly took Wicklow back under their own wing after that, and I don't think they've run it as FEI since.
 
I have been following this thread and have reached the point where I feel I must have a say. I totally agree with most of what has been said so far. I have been involved with Endurance Riding in this country since 1978. I have ridden, crewed, stewarded, vet written in this time. I have travelled abroad and attended several 4* Championships. It does seem that Endurance seems to be taking the knock at the moment. I do feel the article in this weeks issue was a bit more Sun like than I feel comfortable with. We did not present ourselves well at Most this year. At the end of the day only 4 horses were selected and unfortunately one of those was withdrawn beforehand due to a suspected injury, that it turned out was a false alarm. But all respect to that rider, the horse's welfare was paramount and that is after all one of the principles of the sport. I feel very sorry for the other two riders who gave a good account of themselves in Most, they have become embroiled in this debacle through no fault of their own. Let us also not forget the efforts of previous riders in these Championships in past years. We were very unlucky in Florac 2 years ago not to get a team completion., around one of the World's toughest 160KM rides. We had 2 finishers and were very unlucky to lose the third member of the team at the recheck at the last vetgate. We have some talented combinations in this country and we must not forget that the majority of them work hard to earn the money to pay for this sport, this does however mean that we will always struggle to compete against professional trainers with yards full of horses. It is equally not a level playing field at this point in time when we are competing against horses that may have been trained 'at an advantage'. We need to take a big deep breath and go back to producing a TEAM of good riders and horses, forget the crazy speeds (unless we want to break all our potential horses before they get to their best) and aim to get back to team completions. After all the 3rd placed Italian team had an average speed of between 17 and 18kph, well within our capabilities. A bronze medal or even 4th place would not be so bad! Let us be proud to be British again.
 
I totally agree, I can remember no prize money. But I don't think the prize money affects how we compete here. It is a welcome bonus for the day and may go some way to paying towards the cost of the day. Eventing has had prize money for a long time but it makes no difference to how they treat their horses does it? Our welfare of the horse is far greater and if someone turns up at a ride with a horse that is not fit to compete it can be eliminated at the initial vetting by the vet and so not compete. I believe this is the only sport that this happens in at all levels?
 
Eventing is funded from some countries money, and cheating is tougher ss on a short stewarded course deviations in route are noticed along with falls, run outs and fences down. The fei has stop accepting heavy funding.
 
So from latest response from Princess Haya declining to stand anothre term, reading between the lines she is saying she has used her connectins to bring spponsorship to evnts, & when she goes it is up to the next person to find sponsors as thoses from certain parts of the world may well suddenly decline to sponsor any further equestrian events. If that's the price it takes to clean things up, then surely that it was we have to put up with, for the sake of the horses. Hold on racing etc, looks like you'll be in for a bumpy ride.
 
A shame for the sports but I do think it would be better not to be held to ransom by a handful of people.

I take it the preference for a fast, flat race-like course is why you don't see these types winning the tevis cup?
 
It's all very awful etc but remember endurance racing arguably originates from the middle east, before tarring them all with the same brush.

I think this has all happened because it has become so commercialised - similar to other sports, look at cycling! Only way forward really is strict testing.
 
Only commercialised at high levels, very few rides have prizes in this country. To be realistic, there will be some honest trainers / grooms from these regions, but the bonus of having a successful horse is such there is immense unspoken pressure to get the result by whatever means. Horses are dispensible, more can be bought. Any owner can claim they haven't given orders, but that doesn't stop others taking the initiative in order to get a bonus. Suffice to say the 'problems' which are well documented only affect a limited number of regions, such as stress fractures, unheard of in UK endurance.

No they would never do the Tevis. To be frank they wouldn't go beyond Cirencester, regarded as a fast flat track in UK, & they soon stopped doing that. They wouldn't consider doing GHS in UK, let alone the Tevis. Seems to be very clear distinction, there are those who want to race for 100 miles, & those who want to do endurance where positions are decided by how you pass the finish line after 100 miles. Totally recommend to everyone, try the pleasure ride at Golden Horseshoe (GHS), go look at the website. Fit happy healthy horses working with their riders.

'Type' in the racing sport seems to be moving more towards big anglos to get the speeds needed, where as in the endurance rides, smaller, clever, surefooted horses such as arabs still predominate.
 
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I joined endurance gb this year and the stories re international and certain countries bear no relation to my experience of endurance this year. I found people who are completely dedicated to the welfare of their horsess and also some of the kindest and friendliest people I have met in 40 Years of riding.
It's a shame headlines caused by a few tarnish the reputation of many
 
pip6 said:
Only commercialised at high levels, very few rides have prizes in this country. To be realistic, there will be some honest trainers / grooms from these regions, but the bonus of having a successful horse is such there is immense unspoken pressure to get the result by whatever means. Horses are dispensible, more can be bought. Any owner can claim they haven't given orders, but that doesn't stop others taking the initiative in order to get a bonus. Suffice to say the 'problems' which are well documented only affect a limited number of regions, such as stress fractures, unheard of in UK endurance.

No they would never do the Tevis. To be frank they wouldn't go beyond Cirencester, regarded as a fast flat track in UK, & they soon stopped doing that. They wouldn't consider doing GHS in UK, let alone the Tevis. Seems to be very clear distinction, there are those who want to race for 100 miles, & those who want to do endurance where positions are decided by how you pass the finish line after 100 miles. Totally recommend to everyone, try the pleasure ride at Golden Horseshoe (GHS), go look at the website. Fit happy healthy horses working with their riders.

'Type' in the racing sport seems to be moving more towards big anglos to get the speeds needed, where as in the endurance rides, smaller, clever, surefooted horses such as arabs still predominate.
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Hi They used to do the tougher rides and have done Golden Horseshoe, when it was FEI, also Hexham, and Ludlow, not any more though.
 
Nah, not tough enough, lack stamina & feet/bones not hard enough to take training. Need at least 50% arab.

Amazing thing is only 4 European endurance societies have openly critisised the big 3, UAE, Bahrain & Qatar, all the others, inlcuding Britain have not commented. Look at www.endurance-belgium.com, english translations of articles on site. One guy who openly told FEI that cheating should be addressed, Pierre Arnould, has been given a warning by FEI, but the guy in Newmarket, whose just won the Europeans, & trains for one of the big 3, where they found drugs in his endurance stable hasn't had any sanctions against him. Something smells very rotten. Some things could be implemented quickly, ban countries until after 3 years (as an example) of clean in & out of season unannounced random drug testing with no fail (as soon as another fail ban extended by another 3 years), stewards on course to prevent riders taking short cuts, penalities for crew areas being left in a mess (these riders use bottled water at crew points & just dump all the containers where they are used - at Most the european crews were so ashamed they went around clearing up after them) - this is meant to be an environmentally friendly sport, no preferential treatment for countries who sponsor events (as Belgium article says, it's like if they sponsored SJ having the fences lowered 10cm for their competitors), stewards in vet gates who do something & closely watch certain countries e.g. to prevent snake venom being injected into tired/lame horses so they can continue, limit number of people in crew to 3 max to prevent intimidation by numbers & level the playing field, testing of horses & weighing of riders reguarly to help prevent cheating - not taking no for an answer no matter where they rule, where rider has a horse die, a full investigation & open disclosure of results, where stables have multiple deaths their ban from competition until full & open investigation carried out, change of track to reduce max attainable speed, & shift the emphasis from pure speed to rider having to ride well & manage horse over more challenging teraain to maintain soundness & metabolic status.

I'm no-one, just an EGB member, if I can come up with these things in a couple of minutes, how come the new task group are dragging their heels? In EGB members are calling for a boycott of the FEI 2* ladies race at Newbury. Firstly, we don't need to race according to sex, we are more than happy to take the men on, the sport isn't down to human strength, & seconding because it has middle eastern sponsorship. No doubt they will get entries drawn in by money, but I bet there wont be anyone entering who is disgusted by what certain nations get away with in regard to the treatment of their animals & cheating.
 
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it stinks pip6. It would be good if EGB members wuld write to EGB saying they will refuse to renew their membership if EGB doesnt condem the abuse going on.
 
There's plenty going on in the members forum believe you me. Read the belgium articles, what goes on is truly disgusting. Members of EGB are emailing their support to belgium endurance, we are supporting what is right, even if EGB & BEF wont come out & say it.
 
Step in the WRONG direction! How on earth do they see this as a positive & progressive step???!

http://www.sheikhmansoorfestival.com/news/aro.newbury.aspx

I'm not the only person who sees this as a chance to introduce gender specific races into endurance! Looks like a backdoor approach to getting men only races, which would be very popular in certain areas of the globe that don't believe in sexual equality (& in racing refuse to have female stable staff or jockeys in their yards). Do a ladies race first in a western country, then this sets a precidence for introducing men only races, which we know some countries would like to be able to do. Saves the controversy that would be caused by doing in in their own countries first. They've already tried one back door approach of doing races with a higher minimum weight, so light weight women would have to carry heaps of lead to enter in order to make the weight. Interesting to see which area of the globe the sponsorship is coming from......
 
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Such a shame that a decent sport with the welfare of the horse as paramount should be reduced to this. If they want to play the 'exclusive' card how about only nationals allowed to compete in each country unless it is an international event as well? Gets rid of them at a stroke; does anyone really need their money because they sure as hell aren't bringing any benefit to the horses to the sport?
 
It's rapidly becoming clear the aims and ambitions of some Arab countries who are influencing equestrianism in the UK, Sheikh Mansoor Bin Zayed Al Nahyan and all his works are now practically untenable given the amount of doping and rule breaking that he has presided over. A clean bill of health following an exhaustive investigation by one of his wives doesn't really cut the mustard, in fact it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious. Still if you take his money he calls the tune. If he really wants credibility, which you cannot buy, bye the way, he needs to clean up his act. If women want to take part in gender specific races then they will be sealing their own fate in the future.
 
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