English attitudes to bullfighting- opinions for project

I sit on the fence with foxhunting but I thoroughly disagree with bullfighting.

I don't like the idea of inflicting unnecessary pain on any animal. Fox numbers have to be controlled and I'd rather a fox be quickly dispatched by a pack of hounds than being shot or poisoned and left to die in agony for hours, but I am still uneasy with the whole thing.

Bullfighting is completely different. It's about the matador showing off and trying to gain a celebrity status. The bull is just a prop in the matador's pantomine. I very much doubt that when the bull is having spears and blades plunged into his tendons he is thinking "Ah well, at least I had x amount of years of living in a field.".
 
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on the matter of bull fighting a little joke




journalist on holiday in Spain went to a restaurant ., while waiting he notice the man on the next table get a lovely plate of meat with nice looking sauce .


* can I have one of those* he demanded from the waiter

* sorry* the waiter said *only one of those dishes a day if you want i can reserve the dish for you tomorrow*

* ok* the man said.


The next day he went to the restaurant had his starter and explained he had reserved the dish of the day .


a little while later the waiter brings the dish , looking forward to the huge meal the waiter bought the dish placed it down, but instead of the huge pieces of meat there were a couple of tiny nuggets of meat in the middle of the sauce..


* waiter* shouts the man * this isnt the dish i saw yesterday*


The waiter said. * sorry but sometimes the bulls wins * !!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D
 
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i say give the bulls a machine gun and the foxes a rifle and let and the bulls chase the people through the streets and the fox hunt the hunters,
then they will understand just how much 'fun' it all is.
 
I disagree with both.

One point you could bring into your debate OP is the fact that there are people in Spain whose livelihoods depend on bullfighting - what would happen to them if it was banned? Also perhaps look at Portuguese bullfighting, where the bull is not killed in the ring - is that better or worse?

You could that there is a certain degree of hypocrisy from the British surrounding bullfighting - raising game birds for shoots (even though lots of them go uneaten) = good, raising bulls for fights = bad, chasing a panicking, exhausted fox across the countryside for goodness knows how long = good, tormenting a bull for 30 mins = bad. Try and get all sides of the argument going, it's a very interesting topic!
 
Quote: "Death for a fox being pursued by a hunt is unlikely and a mute question as fox hunting is no longer allowed in the UK".

I'm sorry Kippen, but despite foxhunting being banned in the UK, it is still very much alive. Just read the H & H. They may call it drag-hunting, but everyone knows they are out there to catch and kill foxes. They fox hunt and stag hunt twice a week here in Somerset - and if you ask the locals if they had a good day - it will very much depend on how many foxes they have killed :(

OP, IMO any blood sport is cruel - and I include shooting and fishing in with fox hunting, hare coursing, badger baiting and bull fighting.
 
LIZ66 said:
Quote: "Death for a fox being pursued by a hunt is unlikely and a mute question as fox hunting is no longer allowed in the UK".

I'm sorry Kippen, but despite foxhunting being banned in the UK, it is still very much alive. Just read the H & H. They may call it drag-hunting, but everyone knows they are out there to catch and kill foxes. They fox hunt and stag hunt twice a week here in Somerset - and if you ask the locals if they had a good day - it will very much depend on how many foxes they have killed :(

OP, IMO any blood sport is cruel - and I include shooting and fishing in with fox hunting, hare coursing, badger baiting and bull fighting.
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Did you notice the anti-bullfighting links? I thought they were rather good. As for what hunting goes on in the UK, I cannot comment as I am in Australia. If people are hunting foxes, then they are breaking the law. Sadly people who indulge in bullfighting in Spain are not.
 
Bullfighting is disgusting and should never be allowed.
I will not ever condone hounding/torturing/causing unnecessary suffering to any animal. It is barbaric/cruel/hideous behaviour and goes against all my principles.
TBH - I think when the matadors are speared by the bulls they deserve everything they get.
It should be banned.
Fox hunting is on a totally different level to bullfighting, but I suppose the principle is the same.
I have nothing against animals being slaughtered humanely for meat and as a farmers daughter I know that the animals (usually) are very well looked after and nurtured before being quickly and humanely killed.
If we have to kill animals for sustinance then we have a duty to ensure that it is done with no suffering - quickly and painlessly. To cause a long slow distressing painful death in my oppinion is immoral and wicked.
 
I have heard the stories of the spanish doing things to the bulls before they get in the ring... pins in testicles etc... but I do sometimes wonder how they would do this, the bulls are in 'stables' for a better word and let out straight into the ring.(well thats what they did in the village)

A few years ago the police came to my old house, which was big farm in the mountain, they said that 3 young bulls had escaped and under no curcumstances to go near them if we saw them and not to let them in with the horses... as they are very aggressive... never saw them and I guess they caught them... was a bit scary though for a few days..

The vids showing the bulls being jumped over, I have been to watch that, it was a competition, they jumped over them with pole vaults and from a stand still, and have to admit it was entertaining, though not sure if the bulls were ill treated before. After the competition the locals could have a go, I had gone by then, but a friend stayed and said one of the local lads got gored in the face..

Theres a photo going round FB at the moment of a matador sitting in the ring with a bull infront of him.. saying this is the moment he realised it was cruel and stopped doing it.... when in fact his last fight he was gored and ended up in a wheelchair... he is now anti bullfighting...

There are lots of videos on youtube of matadors being gored and killed.. and a nasty one involving a horse (I think its in Mexico)
 
To be honest bull fighting is something I've never given a great deal of thought to and don't feel I know enough about it to pass comment on this thread.

OP I am aware that Ernest Hemingway wrote a book called 'death in the afternoon' on bullfighting (non-fiction) which I have heard is very good and looks at bullfighting as an art form.
 
Bull fighting is not humane. Simple as that. I don't want to get into a debate about other forms of animals being killed as that's not what's been asked here. Bull fighting stabbing at and killing should be banned. I know it's 'cultural' but why cant performances eradicate the need to injure and attempt to kill the bulls. Surely matador skill can be demonstrated in other ways of interacting with a bull whilst still being 'entertaining'?
 
I think that there is a distinction between what you see in different countries (but not so much for the bull). Spanish bullfighting on horseback involves no skill of riding at all - horse wears a kind of armour and the guy pokes the bull. In portugal the horse part at least involves riding skill and its not cruel for the horses. They dont kill them in the ring there but I dont think that makes it much better as they have still been stabbed with the pointy rod things, even if they are destroyed a bit more humanely than a sword through the heart.

I dont however think its pleasant for the bull anywhere and I agree that it belongs with bear baiting and cockfighting. I have several (iberian) family members who are keen on it but I will not go and watch and I do not support it. But, I agree many people here would want it banned but support foxhunting and I find that hypocritical. I dont much like factory farming or live transport for slaughter either though.
 
I am with the majority here as I don't think there is any place in the modern world for bull fighting. There is no excuse or justification for torturing and killing an animal in the name of 'entertainment'. How on earth anyone can sit and watch a terrified animal being slowly and painfully tortured and finally killed when it is too exhausted to carry on is beyond me.

I don't agree with fox hunting in the main either BUT there is a HUGE difference as this is a chase and the fox does have chance of escape and in most cases does escape (it's the digging them out once they've gone to ground that angers me). A bull taken in to a ring for a 'fight' is only going to end up one way isn't it and the means to get there are going to be long, drawn out an painful. Even hunting lions kill their prey in a more 'humane' way.

The human race really does disgust me at times the way it gets it's 'kicks'
 
I detest both fox hunting and bull fighting and I also dont eat meat but I'm sure those who do wouldn't think of a trip to the abbatoir as a fun filled family day out.
 
Well I dont know if I'm allowed to post here since the OP has asked for "English" attitudes. I'm Scottish, am I still allowed?! In which case, put BRITISH (sorry, but drives me nuts!).

I disagree with both. The bulls aren't given a lovely, rosey life until they are very cruelly slaughtered in the ring by the way. And its not just a British view, a lot of Spanish dont agree with it either. My mother was born and brought up in Spain, she is totally anti it.

My main arguement is I dont agree with killing for 'entertainment' which both bullfighting and fox hunting is. I know some pro hunters say "oh no, we're keeping fox numbers down" but then 2 seconds later they'll admit they rarely catch anything... and there's far more humane ways of doing it than a pack of dogs and horses chasing a fox for miles before its death. Its not just the death part thats to be considered when you think of whats cruel, its the mental side of it too - imagine how terrified that bull or fox is during the performance/chase?! I strongly believe these 'sports' are totally old fashioned and should be banned.
 
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The bull is going to end up dead, the fox has a chance to get away.

I understand that the sport of bullfighting is a sort of descendant of pagan ritual - some very high powered american Professor told me that in the course of a lecture on the history and origin of dressage and horse training.
 
GeeUp&Go said:
They are (I dont know the correct terminology) poked with a garrocha pole at various stages in their life. From what Ive heard, theye need to constantly keep attacking the cabbalero in order to be used for the ring and not just meat.

In FH, the fox has the chance to escape. There is nno was a bull can
A fox is either killed straight away or gets away scot free. Bulls are impaled with numerous barbs to rupture the muscles in their neck until they are unable to lift their head up, then killed with a sword.
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Agree with this. There can't be any comparison with FH whatsoever. I can't imagine how the Spanish have been allowed to get away with bullfighting for so long TBH.

For info: I am a hunt supporter. I won't buy any Spanish goods i.e. fruit, etc as I feel so strongly about bullfighting. Ditto travelling for holidays there; I find it surprising that the Great British Public who're all gooey-eyed about fluffy bunnies are quite happy to spend their Pesetas (or is it Euro's now??) in a country that can treat animals so barbarically and not even think about it, plus buy their fruit and veg. Which is why I've always boycotted anything Spanish.

When they stop bullfighting, I'll buy their produce, and not before.
 
Orangehorse said:
I understand that the sport of bullfighting is a sort of descendant of pagan ritual - some very high powered american Professor told me that in the course of a lecture on the history and origin of dressage and horse training.
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Oh that must make it okay then :mad::(
 
I didn't say it was OK, I was just passing on some information, because of interest in WHY there is bullfighting in the first place.

I think that most animal fights - dog fighting, cock fighting, etc - were part of a gambling culture - my dog is better than yours, and I put down my money to prove it - but I don't think that applies to bull fighting.

I
 
Bit narrow minded to say the fox has a chance to get away in comparison. The fox didnt asked to be chased. As for pest control it was used in the days when most people grew their own food which most of us dont now. I have a lovely fox in my barn and I also have chickens and my ducks were murdered by the fox. But I think the fox is a very persecuted animal in this country, unless you are a chicken farmer and then fair enough shoot it.

Fox hunting is not a sport at all..its a load of hooray henrys out for a jolly good old chase around the countryside. I know people that go hunting and say oh no I dont want to see it get killed...urgh! Why go then?

I think fox hunting gives horse fraternity a bad name as most folk think its an associated toff day out.
 
i really hate bullfighting... it is a horrible way to treat animals, and the amount of distress and pain they go through before a horrible death in unbeliveable.
however, i am for foxhunting. the fox either get away from the hounds, or has a quicker and nicer death than the bull. huntiong is a traditional rural pursuit to keep control of the number of pests, such as foxes, in the countryside.
I eat meat and stuff, love cows/bulls, hate foxes and have been hunting since i was 2:D
 
HashRouge said:
I disagree with both.

One point you could bring into your debate OP is the fact that there are people in Spain whose livelihoods depend on bullfighting - what would happen to them if it was banned? Also perhaps look at Portuguese bullfighting, where the bull is not killed in the ring - is that better or worse?

You could that there is a certain degree of hypocrisy from the British surrounding bullfighting - raising game birds for shoots (even though lots of them go uneaten) = good, raising bulls for fights = bad, chasing a panicking, exhausted fox across the countryside for goodness knows how long = good, tormenting a bull for 30 mins = bad. Try and get all sides of the argument going, it's a very interesting topic!
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Have been away all weekend so only just checked the thread.


Thanks for the ideas! I think bullfighting is an emotive porject but I like the points you make. It's definitely something to examine as I do believe there is a comparison between bullfighting and foxhunting to an extent!
 
Spyda said:
Bull fighting is not humane. Simple as that. I don't want to get into a debate about other forms of animals being killed as that's not what's been asked here. Bull fighting stabbing at and killing should be banned. I know it's 'cultural' but why cant performances eradicate the need to injure and attempt to kill the bulls. Surely matador skill can be demonstrated in other ways of interacting with a bull whilst still being 'entertaining'?
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I agree with your latter point about there should be other ways of expressing the skill without killing, I believe in Portugal they are introducing this concept (I need to find out more).

I think they should perhaps introduce garrocha to the bullrings, no skilling but sheer dancing with the bull. If you watch some videos of a horse and bull together, they begin playing with one another. Perhaps as an alternative.
 
I've always thought that bullfighting is barbaric - I think other people have put it more eloquently here than I could but trapping an animal and watching it tortured to death..........

indie999 said:
Fox hunting is not a sport at all..its a load of hooray henrys out for a jolly good old chase around the countryside. I know people that go hunting and say oh no I dont want to see it get killed...urgh! Why go then?
I think fox hunting gives horse fraternity a bad name as most folk think its an associated toff day out.
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I think you'll find that a big majority of people who hunt have never seen anything killed, people have a mistaken idea that it's a bloodthirsty mob all charging along with a fox in sight - the huntsman is the one who's hunting, not the field. And as to why people go? Well mainly to get the chance to ride off road and let your horse have a good blast on land that someone is allowing you to ride over. I hunt when I can and I'm neither a hooray Henry nor a toff, if you heard my broad Yorkshire accent you'd probably think I'd just walked out of the mill in my shawl and clogs ;)
 
There is a lot of VERY innaccurate nonsense about bullfighting in this post. I'm not exactly for it, but at least I have been to several bullfights in both Spain and Portugal and seen it firsthand. I am a historian and am interested on various levels because this is the last vestige of the old Roman (and older than Roman) arena with it's gladiatoral games and beast fights. We humans have been cruel for all of our history, both to each other and to our fellow creatures. Perhaps we are becoming more aware of our "barbarity" and less cruel in modern times, perhaps not. And perhaps we should not condem other cultures' behaviour whilst we have our own little pecaddilloes (legal or illegal) - dog fighting, badger baiting, cock fighting still go on.
 
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