English riding - I think having a 'contact' is fundamentally flawed

[Booboos]

Could OP please define 'constant contact with rein and leg'? I get the feeling that people may be talking about different things on this thread.

For me, if you have to ride a DR horse with a strong leg you have missed the point and will probably exhaust yourself pretty quickly. Contact with the leg means that the inner part of the lower leg is in touch with the horse's belly but this comes from correct positioning of the rider's body and core strength. The leg aid is then applied with the heel, lightly and gently when needed and the horse responds to the lightest aid possible. As for rein contact, this comes from the horse itself, so I don't quite see why it would be uncomfortable for the horse. True rein contact is the feeling of all the power from behind being collected to the front and it's quite a difficult thing to achieve (well for me at least!). If one hasn't felt true contact from a horse that has a really powerful and engaged back end, it's difficult to judge what it is and easy to equate it with pulling on the part of the rider.

 

[hellsbells881]

Isn't it just a case of what makes horses happy? Top level dressage,eventers etc look pretty keen on the job (in most cases...) So do top level reining horses. Both systems seem to work as they've survived quite a long time. It's already been said but isn't it more a case of when things aren't done properly? ie rc dressage or the local rodeo....

 

[fluffalina]

When comparing 'English' with 'Western' it is only fair to look at examples of the best - there is little point in looking at rubbish riding in any discipline - Western horses being allowed to slop along on the forehand or socked in the mouth with a severe curb bit or English horses being forced into an outline with unforgiving hands and a hollow back. BUT, if you want to look at great riding, both have their place and both have a beauty that all devotees should work towards and aspire to.
If I were going to go round a course of jumps, it wouldn't be on a western saddle and I'd certainly want contact throughout. Likewise, if I wanted to work cattle, I'd want to do it on a western trained horse with a level head carriage and the freedom to work that a western bit on a long rein will give him.
Many of the principles are the same, for both disciplines.

 

[Dizzle]

I would never start a horse in side reins and I would never use a pessoa.

Put my youngster in a bit with long shanks and my god, he's summersault!

 

[teapot]

For those interested this is a Serreta noseband - roughly translates as serrater (sp)

Imaging the extreme discomfort the horse must be in - no wonder you don't need a contact . Imagine the pain if the horse does something like spook, and unbalances the rider...

FWIW I have worked with horses ridden with on of these nosebands in Spain for a year after finishing college. The horses are well schooled but they felt very 'weird' underneath me. The only way I can describe is the way a newly broken youngster feels underneath you - it doesn't feel as if the horse is part of you, or even understanding, just doing what you want to avoid discomfort... It's hard to describe but it isn't a feeling of a 'safe' partnership Those who have sat on youngsters will know what I mean...

Wowzers - that's some noseband! Thanks for the pic. Can see how it could be abused too.