Epilepsy

spotty_pony2

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On Wednesday evening, my Dalmatian suffered four severe cluster seizures, with each one getting progressively worse. The first one was very mild but two hours later he had another so I took him to the Vets. Bloods were all normal, they sent me home with some Diazepam and said ring back if he has another one. I had been home about ten minutes and he had another one - worse this time. I managed to administer the diazepam in time and once he had calmed down we went straight back to the Vets. I had also managed to capture part of this one on video as per vets request so she could confirm it was a seizure - she said it definitely was and quite an aggressive one. :(

She said she would give him some anti convulsion medication and monitor him for a while there and then would send us home again - it was so scary and I was home alone as everybody else was on holiday. She said we could wait a while to make sure the medication was working. Four hours later I nipped out to my car to clear a bigger space for him to lay down - I was only gone about 5 mins. I went back expecting to see him very drowsy but unfortunately he was having another seizure - the worst one yet but luckily we were at the vets this time. I managed to hold him so the Vet could give him some strong medication via IV. It was absolutely heartbreaking.

We ended up staying another three hours and once he was very calm and sleepy I took him home with more tablets for him to take. I watched him constantly the following day and he was very wobbly and disorientated particularly after each dose of meds but with each dose the side effects were getting less and less.

Three days later he is almost back to normal except for sleeping a lot and there has been no more seizures thank goodness. Other members of the household are now home too which makes things a bit easier. He is on the tablets still though so there is a chance they are stopping further seizures. I've never experienced anything quite so scary if I'm honest.

Been replaying everything but he hadn't eaten anything different and Vet doesn't think it's a toxin because she said he would still have seizures whilst on the meds if it was - and they seem to have stopped for now.

Just wanting to hear of anyone who's had experience with ideopathic epilepsy in dogs. What was the cause and did you manage to manage it long term? He is hopefully having more tests and possibly an mri this week.
 
Sorry, I can't help with advice but didn't want to read and run. What an absolutely heartbreaking experience for you, I'm so sorry and I hope others can help and reply x
 
Sorry, I can't help with advice but didn't want to read and run. What an absolutely heartbreaking experience for you, I'm so sorry and I hope others can help and reply x

Thank you, I'm only just starting to calm down properly about it. I think I had about four hours sleep in 48 hours and I was terrified we were going to lose him - he's only just under three and such a lovely dog.
 
Are you in contact with his breeders? It can be hereditary in some breeds. It was only (mostly) eradicated in my own breed because of awareness and people stopping breeding from suspect lines.

My friend had an OES who was managed on medication but he did bite her very badly as he was disorientated and couldn't let go, so do be careful.

Another has a setter who seems to get triggered by heat, travel and excitement (stress) so just keep an eye on those sorts of things.
 
Most are well managed once you get the medication all figured out which can take some tweaking. Keep a diary of all seizures (time, anything he had been doing etc) to try work out if he has triggers, lots don't though.

Sedation/drowsiness is a normal side effect of anti-seizure meds and improves over time as the dog adjusts to the med regime.
 
Are you in contact with his breeders? It can be hereditary in some breeds. It was only (mostly) eradicated in my own breed because of awareness and people stopping breeding from suspect lines.

My friend had an OES who was managed on medication but he did bite her very badly as he was disorientated and couldn't let go, so do be careful.

Another has a setter who seems to get triggered by heat, travel and excitement (stress) so just keep an eye on those sorts of things.

Yes, one of the first things I did was contact the breeder to ask her the question. I had been talking to her recently anyway and she said there is no known history but I know she didn't know his dad that well, so I'm not 100% convinced about that if I'm honest. We do wonder if he was overstimulated but from what I have read it seems that if they get them from these things although they can trigger one the dog is sadly predisposed to them already. The first one we were out on a walk but luckily we were only ten minutes from the car and he wasn't overly excited or stressed but I'm aware it can be a build up. Yes, on the first one I thought he was choking on something so stupidly put my hand in his mouth and he accidentally bit me - not very badly at all luckily. He seemed to lose sight during and just after them and was very distressed when coming round so although they say don't restrain them myself and the Vet had to to a point to prevent him from injuring himself. I hope he never has to go through it again bless him.
 
Yes, one of the first things I did was contact the breeder to ask her the question. I had been talking to her recently anyway and she said there is no known history but I know she didn't know his dad that well, so I'm not 100% convinced about that if I'm honest. We do wonder if he was overstimulated but from what I have read it seems that if they get them from these things although they can trigger one the dog is sadly predisposed to them already. The first one we were out on a walk but luckily we were only ten minutes from the car and he wasn't overly excited or stressed but I'm aware it can be a build up. Yes, on the first one I thought he was choking on something so stupidly put my hand in his mouth and he accidentally bit me - not very badly at all luckily. He seemed to lose sight during and just after them and was very distressed when coming round so although they say don't restrain them myself and the Vet had to to a point to prevent him from injuring himself. I hope he never has to go through it again bless him.

That's what happened to my friend, they were out in the woods and she put her hand out to help him. He lived to a ripe old age though.
Some breeds/breeders will write it off as 'just one of those things' but I'd want to know if it was in the lines of any dogs I own.
 
I am so sorry for what you have gone through, it’s horrendously distressing.
My Great Swiss Mountain dog had her first seizure at 1 1/2 years old. I contacted her breeder, who told me her Mum had just started seizures after she was spayed at 4 1/2 years old.
Long story short, we battled for the next 3 years with moments of hope, and then increasing medication etc. I am sorry to say, we lost Peggy at just 4 years old. 💔
Some Epileptic dogs do really well on meds, and I hope yours is one of those. Xx
 
My last dog had fits, they started occasionally and mildly but over time got worse and more numerous. Despite the vet saying it was impossible he clustered every month and by the end I knew when he would start and stop. I tried everything but nothing helped and after three years he had a fit that wouldn’t stop and that was the end. It’s an awful thing when they get numerous fits and hopefully your dog will be one of the lucky ones who only has occasional fits.
I have an another dog now and it was a long time before I could relax and not constantly look for the signs.
 
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That's what happened to my friend, they were out in the woods and she put her hand out to help him. He lived to a ripe old age though.
Some breeds/breeders will write it off as 'just one of those things' but I'd want to know if it was in the lines of any dogs I own.

I agree. I have heard they can live a normal life if the correct medication combination is found which makes me hopeful. He isn't even actually mine, he's my friends but as we live in the same property he spends a lot of time with me and I do a lot with him so he is practically like mine. I was in contact with her the whole time and obviously she felt helpless being on holiday. We discussed PTS and if these seizures had continued that night and we couldn't control them we wouldn't have let him suffer. I just hope it continues. Now my friend is back, she has obviously taken over giving the tablets and I'm paranoid she might forget or something and having to stop myself from constantly checking up.
 
I am so sorry for what you have gone through, it’s horrendously distressing.
My Great Swiss Mountain dog had her first seizure at 1 1/2 years old. I contacted her breeder, who told me her Mum had just started seizures after she was spayed at 4 1/2 years old.
Long story short, we battled for the next 3 years with moments of hope, and then increasing medication etc. I am sorry to say, we lost Peggy at just 4 years old. 💔
Some Epileptic dogs do really well on meds, and I hope yours is one of those. Xx

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. It truly is heartbreaking. I'm hoping the might do some tests and find it's something different which is treatable as it can be liver related (the only blood marker which was slightly raised was his liver enzymes but nothing to be worried about I was told) or even blood sugar can be a factor and diagnosed by mri... although the Vet who was absolutely fantastic and did a great job of calming me down too - does think they look like proper seizures.
 
My old gsd had epilepsy. It was brought on by stress caused by loud noises. Thunderstorms or fireworks. She didnt need meds as it happened infrequently. Its horrible. I hope its settled for you now.

I wish we could identify the trigger but all of them happened randomly. One on a walk, on the second one I had got him sitting down on the sofa and went in the shower for five minutes just the other side of the wall so I could hear him and came out to see him having a seizure but he wasn't making any noise, third one I had just turned the lights off to go to sleep as I had read that bright light can cause it and within five minutes he sat bolt upright and jumped on my bed and about one minute later starting having a seizure, the fourth one was at the vets and I was concerned he had got stressed when I left the room to nip to my car so no pattern although I guess with cluster seizures once one has started they can keep returning anyway until controlled. He's my little wing man - he's got a lovely personality. Hopefully we can keep him seizure free.
 
Sorry if I’ve missed it but are they sure it’s epilepsy? Have they ruled out other causes?

He's having further tests this week. Vet initially gave me rectal diazepam which I managed to use to stop the third seizure as she didn't want to start him on meds unless necessary but after seeing the video from that third seizure she said they were particularly violent ones and so she would need to start him on meds for now to try and prevent them. He is going to see a specialist to get more tests and to potentially have an mri.
 
I had a brown Lab bitch who developed epilepsy at about 18 months. We tried medication but it's years ago and all we were offered was phenobarbitone. The side effects were horrible, she seemed to lose all her personality, so, because her seizures were not very frequent and quite short-lived, we managed her without meds. She must have had some kind of warning aura because she usually came to tell me when she was starting a seizure. She had 2 or 3 seizures per year, with no ill effects that i could discern, and lived to be almost 15,
At the same time I had a slightly younger yellow Lab bitch who out of absolutely nowhere had a seizure one Friday evening, as a middle-aged dog. I took her to the vets where they anaesthetised her and kept her in over the weekend. The seizure stopped but she seemed absent and wouldn't engage with the staff at all.
I was advised to take her home, when we got there it was as if a switch had been flipped and she was back to normal. Vet thought the seizure must have been caused by a virus, she never had another and lived to be 15, so at least 7 more years possibly more.
I.hope your dog is ok.
 
I had a brown Lab bitch who developed epilepsy at about 18 months. We tried medication but it's years ago and all we were offered was phenobarbitone. The side effects were horrible, she seemed to lose all her personality, so, because her seizures were not very frequent and quite short-lived, we managed her without meds. She must have had some kind of warning aura because she usually came to tell me when she was starting a seizure. She had 2 or 3 seizures per year, with no ill effects that i could discern, and lived to be almost 15,
At the same time I had a slightly younger yellow Lab bitch who out of absolutely nowhere had a seizure one Friday evening, as a middle-aged dog. I took her to the vets where they anaesthetised her and kept her in over the weekend. The seizure stopped but she seemed absent and wouldn't engage with the staff at all.
I was advised to take her home, when we got there it was as if a switch had been flipped and she was back to normal. Vet thought the seizure must have been caused by a virus, she never had another and lived to be 15, so at least 7 more years possibly more.
I.hope your dog is ok.

Thank you, I’m also hoping it could be a virus or infection. 🤞🏼
 
My neighbour looks after her daughters border terrier which has seizures, he has been on medication but they still would occur. In January they started him on a gluten free diet and (touch wood) he has not had one since.

Apparently it is a thing, with border terriers.

Yes I’ve seen that it can be quite common in terriers, Interesting about the diet - I have read something that they’ve recently discovered diet can be linked. He hadn’t had anything different but he was in the garden with me wandering around whilst I was doing the stables but that’s pretty usual. I *think* he had been cheeky and gone to the vegetable bed and dug up some carrots because there was carrot in his 💩 but again that’s nothing that hasn’t happened before. Carrots are naturally grown with no fertiliser used either. He does have a sensitive tummy and cannot tolerate beef etc so his treats mainly consist of fresh chicken (usually frozen in kongs to keep him occupied) and the odd dog treat. I had given them a couple of dog small chew type treats this week that I had bought but nothing he hadn’t had before. I was paranoid he had stolen something like my medication from the house or something - of course he hadn’t and they weren’t even in his reach - but when in the Vets all I wanted to do was go and double check. Whatever the outcome, I will appreciate every day and the time I get with him even more.
 
One of my previous dogs suffered from grand mal epilepsy and had cluster seizures.

The seizures started when she was 5/6. She was managed on Epiphen (phenobarbitol) and Epilease (potassium bromide) and I had a supply of rectal diazepam for prolonged seizures. She lived until she was 12.

I think there are newer drugs now, Pexion?
 
skinnydipper - Glad to hear that she lived to a good age.

My friend has just had a go at me about not being very tidy.This is quite common when she is stressed which understandably she will be because of the dog. She also said I was being paid to look after the dog so thinks that covers my feelings I think!! I get she’s stressed but I’m sick of everything being taken out on me. Who is there for ME? It was traumatic for me to go through and tbh I’m still getting over it. I’m hardly seeing him now she’s back and although he’s in good hands I miss him. She also bought me an Apple Watch as an early Christmas present before she went away and because I sent her a message yesterday saying it doesn’t work so I’ll have to give it her back she said I’m selfish! In hindsight it’s not something I should have text at such a stressful time but too late now. Sorry to right this on here, I literally have nobody I feel I can talk to about it. Just feeling a bit lost.
 
Update…. I’ve taken both dogs for a small walk but last night and this morning around our land. Just trying to keep him as calm as possible. A further improvement this morning - the meds have reduced slightly yesterday so I think he’s not quite as lethargic. He was trying to play with toys and dig this morning - I obviously didn’t let him do this in case it gets him too wound up but it was nice to see as he always brings me his toys normally so we can play. He did run back to the door to go back in to my friend when we got back so he is obviously still feeling quite needy but it’s good to see him feeling better. I was obviously watching him like a hawk as I’m paranoid he’s going to have another seizure. I’m sure I’ll relax with time.

Recent photo of him on a walk just a few weeks ago…
 

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On Wednesday evening, my Dalmatian suffered four severe cluster seizures, with each one getting progressively worse. The first one was very mild but two hours later he had another so I took him to the Vets. Bloods were all normal, they sent me home with some Diazepam and said ring back if he has another one. I had been home about ten minutes and he had another one - worse this time. I managed to administer the diazepam in time and once he had calmed down we went straight back to the Vets. I had also managed to capture part of this one on video as per vets request so she could confirm it was a seizure - she said it definitely was and quite an aggressive one. :(

She said she would give him some anti convulsion medication and monitor him for a while there and then would send us home again - it was so scary and I was home alone as everybody else was on holiday. She said we could wait a while to make sure the medication was working. Four hours later I nipped out to my car to clear a bigger space for him to lay down - I was only gone about 5 mins. I went back expecting to see him very drowsy but unfortunately he was having another seizure - the worst one yet but luckily we were at the vets this time. I managed to hold him so the Vet could give him some strong medication via IV. It was absolutely heartbreaking.

We ended up staying another three hours and once he was very calm and sleepy I took him home with more tablets for him to take. I watched him constantly the following day and he was very wobbly and disorientated particularly after each dose of meds but with each dose the side effects were getting less and less.

Three days later he is almost back to normal except for sleeping a lot and there has been no more seizures thank goodness. Other members of the household are now home too which makes things a bit easier. He is on the tablets still though so there is a chance they are stopping further seizures. I've never experienced anything quite so scary if I'm honest.

Been replaying everything but he hadn't eaten anything different and Vet doesn't think it's a toxin because she said he would still have seizures whilst on the meds if it was - and they seem to have stopped for now.

Just wanting to hear of anyone who's had experience with ideopathic epilepsy in dogs. What was the cause and did you manage to manage it long term? He is hopefully having more tests and possibly an mri this week.
Yes, very sorry for you and the dog.
Young collie bitch, exceptionally bright, should have been trialling at top level, but couldn’t ‘cope with the stress of competition’ (as in, prone to fits, which we discovered when we took her). Stress definitely triggered it, including fireworks, possibly initially caused a blow to the head when herding stock? Went permanently onto medication which was very successful, twice per day. No family history, they are rather well-known trials dogs.
Be careful he does actually swallow it - after one fit and I found a cache of tablets behind her bedding! I took over administration from OH….
She lived a very active working life, well into her teens, was the loveliest animal imaginable, very much missed.
Get onto meds asap, two vets warned me that if she came round from a really bad, lengthy episode, I probably wouldn’t have the ‘same’ dog, and maybe preferable to put her to sleep.
Good luck with it.
 
Thank you, he’s on Levetiracetam 500 mg initially 2 every 8 hours but reduced to 2 every 12 hours. I am well aware from reading this can sometimes only be a short term fix though if it’s epilepsy.

Vet has had a conversation with my friend. She’s given three options - 1) mri but it wont show epilepsy it will just show what it isn’t and at his age she thinks it’s very very unlikely it’s a brain tumour or cancer. 2) continue on the medicine 3) stop the medicine and see if it happens again in which case he will need to stay on the medicine. We will be provided with emergency meds before stopping it just in case.

I was always of the opinion that you can’t just stop it and it has to be tapered off, even if they have only been taking it for a few days as it can cause withdrawal seizures so we will be questioning that. I think friend wants to go down this route as she isn’t convinced it’s epilepsy. The medicines do have side effects so obviously if he doesn’t need them then he is better without them, but it is a risk. As he’s not mine I can only discuss it and can’t make the final decision. I think he may end up back on them unfortunately anyway. From what I’ve read thought they can remain seizure free for days/weeks/months and something can trigger it out of the blue. We will be trying to keep him calmer in any case.

He is really quite his normal self this afternoon. Not wobbly at all, wanting to play and responding normally although he’s obviously still on the meds…
 
Thank you, he’s on Levetiracetam 500 mg initially 2 every 8 hours but reduced to 2 every 12 hours. I am well aware from reading this can sometimes only be a short term fix though if it’s epilepsy.

Vet has had a conversation with my friend. She’s given three options - 1) mri but it wont show epilepsy it will just show what it isn’t and at his age she thinks it’s very very unlikely it’s a brain tumour or cancer. 2) continue on the medicine 3) stop the medicine and see if it happens again in which case he will need to stay on the medicine. We will be provided with emergency meds before stopping it just in case.

I was always of the opinion that you can’t just stop it and it has to be tapered off, even if they have only been taking it for a few days as it can cause withdrawal seizures so we will be questioning that. I think friend wants to go down this route as she isn’t convinced it’s epilepsy. The medicines do have side effects so obviously if he doesn’t need them then he is better without them, but it is a risk. As he’s not mine I can only discuss it and can’t make the final decision. I think he may end up back on them unfortunately anyway. From what I’ve read thought they can remain seizure free for days/weeks/months and something can trigger it out of the blue. We will be trying to keep him calmer in any case.

He is really quite his normal self this afternoon. Not wobbly at all, wanting to play and responding normally although he’s obviously still on the meds…
Well at least he’s happier atm.
My understanding of the epilepsy meds my collie took was that these are permanent, lifelong. Therefore, a mental shift and commitment is required rather quickly from the owner, if intending to keep and manage the dog. Being in denial won’t help at all, plus admits the possibility of more and more damaging seizures, interim.
If you stop or even taper the tablets, fits will definitely start again - witness what happened when my collie was discovered to have been surreptitiously spitting out the morning dose, which my (unobservant) husband was responsible for!
I can’t see an MRI will produce anything more than an inflated bill, tbh.
It’s clearly epilepsy, confirmed by your and the vet’s first hand observations, what more evidence is required?
anyway keep your fingers x’d for him.
 
Well at least he’s happier atm.
My understanding of the epilepsy meds my collie took was that these are permanent, lifelong. Therefore, a mental shift and commitment is required rather quickly from the owner, if intending to keep and manage the dog. Being in denial won’t help at all, plus admits the possibility of more and more damaging seizures, interim.
If you stop or even taper the tablets, fits will definitely start again - witness what happened when my collie was discovered to have been surreptitiously spitting out the morning dose, which my (unobservant) husband was responsible for!
I can’t see an MRI will produce anything more than an inflated bill, tbh.
It’s clearly epilepsy, confirmed by your and the vet’s first hand observations, what more evidence is required?
anyway keep your fingers x’d for him.

Thank you. I know, I don’t understand why Vet is now going down the path of stopping them tbh but I didn’t hear the conversation. Yes don’t think we will go down the mri route, as it won’t show anything else andnot to mention this is likely to cause him more unnecessary stress. My friend thinks he was overstimulated because he goes everywhere with me and I’m on the go a lot. I wouldn’t say he was particularly excited that day if I’m honest and he had been asleep all morning. Even if it was from overstimulation from what I can see the dog is already likely to get epilepsy and is predisposed to getting it at some point in its life and this can bring a seizure on but not directly cause one. It will be impossible to keep him calm all the time forever too. I can more or less certainly say if he has another seizure he will be on the medication again anyway. She wasn’t here so didn’t witness it, but I for one do not want to go through that again and I don’t want him to either. She hasn’t made any decisions yet anyway so maybe she will change her mind. It won’t be stopped suddenly either way I can definitely say that much. I’ll keep this post updated.
 
Thank you. I know, I don’t understand why Vet is now going down the path of stopping them tbh but I didn’t hear the conversation. Yes don’t think we will go down the mri route, as it won’t show anything else andnot to mention this is likely to cause him more unnecessary stress. My friend thinks he was overstimulated because he goes everywhere with me and I’m on the go a lot. I wouldn’t say he was particularly excited that day if I’m honest and he had been asleep all morning. Even if it was from overstimulation from what I can see the dog is already likely to get epilepsy and is predisposed to getting it at some point in its life and this can bring a seizure on but not directly cause one. It will be impossible to keep him calm all the time forever too. I can more or less certainly say if he has another seizure he will be on the medication again anyway. She wasn’t here so didn’t witness it, but I for one do not want to go through that again and I don’t want him to either. She hasn’t made any decisions yet anyway so maybe she will change her mind. It won’t be stopped suddenly either way I can definitely say that much. I’ll keep this post updated.
From what you have said I would stop the meds now and see what happens, he might never have another fit or he might have so few that he’s better off not taking them. The medication has serious side effects and I would try very hard not to go down that route.
 
We had a spaniel with epilepsy. No known cause, just started out of the blue one day around the age of 7, with multiple seizures. He had to be put into a medically induced coma, which we didn't think he would wake up from.

He lived happily until 13 1/2 on epiphen and only ever had 2 further seizures, during times of excitement (a child's party, even though he was safely closed in a room away from the excitement and noise)
 
From what you have said I would stop the meds now and see what happens, he might never have another fit or he might have so few that he’s better off not taking them. The medication has serious side effects and I would try very hard not to go down that route.

This is what we are thinking. If he doesn’t need the meds that would be perfect as the side effects are so severe and he isn’t even three yet so it’s a long life on meds. Obviously if that is our only option he will have them. There’s so many other things it could be - although bloods came back clear there’s still a chance he ate something in the garden or it was an infection.
 
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