Epileptic dog, any advice?

henmother

henmother

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Hello, hope you can help. We adopted a 4yo patterdale terrorist from a local dog rescue who we were told was epileptic and had dairy intolerances. We were vary wary because our other rescue, a Lakeland terrorist does enjoy her treats and all treats seem to contain dairy of some form or other! I do make my own treats which are ideal for walks and stuffing in a kong while we are at work. She was checked at our vets who said just to monitor fits, be aware of cluster fits and take her back if she starts to have them regularly. Since we got her, she's fitted maybe once every 5/6 weeks. I'm kind of reluctant to put her on meds, vet said the pheno may control fits but can cause damage to the internal organs. :( it seems the cure is sometimes worse than the disease.... I've tried to read up a bit online and seen a lot of people suggest honey in meals? I suppose what I'd like to know, what do you feed your epileptic dog? When did you start meds and was it pheno? I know fits can be fatal and wonder if its best to stick her on the meds now in case she did have a big one? She has to be caged when we are out as we can't be sure the Lakeland wouldn't attack her if she fitted, what are your experiences of dogs and their behaviour towards another fitting? Sorry for the rambling on, and thankyou.
 
I used to have a Lakeland terriorist who had fits sometimes would go over 12 months without one or could have 2-3 together if I was around I would just hold and reassure him I never went to the Vet with it Tod lived to 16 and half years and was the best working Terrier I have ever owned.
 
Our schnauzer x is epileptic. She has a few over a few weeks and then doesn't have any for a few months. The vet advised not to go on meds yet. Stress seems to make her worse. Her fits last upto 10 mins and her consciousness varies. Apart from that she is fit and healthy and leads a normal life.
We don't separate her from our other dog. Obviously we don't know if she has fitted whilst we are out, but there's no evidence of any problems. When we have been there, other dog has ignored her.
 
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I've had quite a bit of experience with epileptic Norwich Terriers. The breed has a serious problem with the condition. When I lived in the US, I imported several Norwich from the UK, most of which were epileptic to some degree. I had 2 dogs on pheno for many years. I, too, was reluctant to start them on the drug for the same reasons you have. However, when my oldest was fitting several times a week, I felt I had to take action. I started him on pheno when he was about 5 years old. In his case, he needed a rather high dose to be effective. My other medicated dog had the odd seizure when he was about 2.5 years of age. By the time we moved to the UK, he had several, well-spaced episodes while he was in quarantine. After he came home, he started having them more frequently. On the day he had 4 within several hours, he, too, was put on the drug.

Different dogs metabolise pheno differently. My older boy was on 120mgs daily, after several months of trial and error, in terms of dose. That amount could easily knock out a much larger dog. But, because his body utilised the drug so efficiently, he needed that much to have any affect. He was never sleepy, lethargic or sluggish on the drug. He did have the odd break-through seizure, but the intensity of the fit was greatly diminished.

My other dog was, ultimately, put on 60mgs a day. This dog used to vomit violently after his seizures before taking the drug. The pheno completely eliminated the heaving when he had the odd break-through seizure. He was lively and active on the drug, with no indication of lethargy.

It was important for the boys to have periodic blood tests to monitor their liver function, among other parameters. It was also imperative that neither of the boys were left uncrated when no one was home. The older of the two was quite the dominant male (even among my Golden Retriever boys). If he went down with a seizure, the other Norwich would roll up their collective sleeves and attack him.

Once the boys were put on the medication, they had it for the rest of their lives. Both boys lived to almost 16 years of age. Considering my fears about them being on pheno for so long, I'd say that's a great age (even for a dog not on the drug).

As worrying as it is to have an epileptic dog, with proper management both at home and with your vet, your dog can live a long, productive, happy life.
 
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Thanks for your replies, I am hoping they'll lessen once she settles in proper. I really want her out of the cage, I imagine the lakey swanning around flicking her the v's :p I've read suggestions of putting honey in feed. She is fit and healthy apart from the awful fits :( just hang in there with her you think, stay away from the meds for as long as poss. Thankyou. Out of interest, what do you feed your dogs? Been recommended Burns but prefer to give them meat and mixer, they lovevlicking the gravy of their beards, or wiping it on me :p
 
I thought I might add that the Goldens did not have epilepsy, in case there were questions as to my husbandry.

Henmother, it is important that you catalogue your dog's seizures in terms of when, where, what were the circumstances, and how long each seizure lasts. The intensity and length of time of the fit is of paramount importance to know, because what you want to avoid is a very long, uninterrupted fit known as status epilepticus. That can be very dangerous. Usually, epilepsy medication will help prevent this. Discuss this with your vet.
 
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I read some research ages ago about helping epileptic dogs by giving vitamin E. Has anyone else heard this? It was in connection with collies who can be prone to epilepsy.

One word of advice, about the crating. We had a terrier crated in a good strong crate when a thunderstorm hit. Terrified, manic dog. Another of our dogs attacked the crate - maybe to get at the terrified dog who would have been yelling, I'm sure, or to let it out, which is doubtful - the heavy crate was pulled across the floor and both dogs sustained injuries requiring vet intervention despite terrified one remaining crated. So might be advisable to crate in a room alone?
 
I've had 3 epileptic dogs, - they were a black Labrador, a chocolate Labrador and a (probably) Dandie Dinmont x Basset Hound (he was a rescue dog). These were from 20 years ago to about 8 years ago, so things will have moved on, but:

a) The epilepsy of all the dogs was fairly certainly caused by their vaccinations. I have only just started vaccinating my dogs again, on the reassurance of my vet that the drugs used have been changed

b) The treatment then was Mysoline (the same drug is, I understand, used for humans too). The black Lab and the rescue dog were on a very low daily dose. the chocolate boy, who I acquired as a young dog, was already on high dosage. His condition got worse and worse until he went into permanent epilepsy (I think it's called status epileptic or something like that, and tragically had to be put down

c) The Mysoline didn't affect them at all. The Lab had it for 10 years and died aged 15 - the rescue was on it for about 8 years, and was 13. They had active and I hope happy lives, very rarely fitted once they were on medication, and had no side effects. I would strongly recommend your dogs being on medication - a low dose will act as a preventative

d) I was told, and it appeared to be true, that a dog will never have a fit while it is active (e.g. out on a walk or romping with another dog). Certainly in mine it ALWAYS happened when they were resting. To that end I would be very unhappy about leaving your dog in a cage. the confined space will make it very difficult for it to move round, and then to recover properly afterwards. On the whole dogs do not hurt themselves while having fits. They may (mine never did) bite someone by accident, but that is honestly the owner's fault. The golden rules are:
 
Sorry, computer blipped!

Golden rules:

stay calm
stay quiet
be with your dog if you can - they'll often go under a table, so not always possible!
turn off TV, radio
turn out bright lights
it IS OK to stroke your dog, but be careful
at the start and end of an attack they can hear you so speak to and comfort them
don't offer any food until they are fully recovered
allow them access to water - they will be very thirsty
they will be very tired afterwards, so just allow to rest that day

But hopefully, on medication, you will rarely, if ever, have to do any of this. I do hope it works out for you.
 
One of our dogs is epileptic and he is on medication he takes two tablets twice a day. Our vet told us not to feed him on raw chicken as chicken contains a lot of protein which will increase the fits. Before we knew this we fed our dogs on raw chicken for 5 days as we had just started the raw diet, and on the 5th day he had 5 fits so we stopped feeding it.

When he is coming out of the fit and gets up to walk he staggers and falls over and bangs into things because the vet said he is unable to see, which is upsetting to our other dog and to us and must be to him too. While he is having the fit he always pee's him self and once he gets on his feet he also squats and does a poo, he never pee's or poo's in the house normally as he is house trained and we never tell him off as he doesn't know what he is doing. The vet also said put him in a quiet darken room which we do and also we mustn't touch him because he might bite as he doesn't know where he is or who we are, so we leave him alone and don't touch him but one of us does stay with him.

As epilepsy is a serious neurology complaint which they can die of if their heart gives out, I recommend you take your dog to the vet for treatment.
 
Without the tablets he was fitting up to five fits a day but with the tablets he's had one fit in the last six months which is good. If the tablets shorten his life he is 9yrs old now at least he has had a good and happy life.

We took them off the raw and now feed them both on IAMS which they both like and it's easy for us to pick up their poo.:)
 
RutlandH2O said:
I've had quite a bit of experience with epileptic Norwich Terriers. The breed has a serious problem with the condition. When I lived in the US, I imported several Norwich from the UK, most of which were epileptic to some degree. I had 2 dogs on pheno for many years. I, too, was reluctant to start them on the drug for the same reasons you have. However, when my oldest was fitting several times a week, I felt I had to take action. I started him on pheno when he was about 5 years old. In his case, he needed a rather high dose to be effective. My other medicated dog had the odd seizure when he was about 2.5 years of age. By the time we moved to the UK, he had several, well-spaced episodes while he was in quarantine. After he came home, he started having them more frequently. On the day he had 4 within several hours, he, too, was put on the drug.

Different dogs metabolise pheno differently. My older boy was on 120mgs daily, after several months of trial and error, in terms of dose. That amount could easily knock out a much larger dog. But, because his body utilised the drug so efficiently, he needed that much to have any affect. He was never sleepy, lethargic or sluggish on the drug. He did have the odd break-through seizure, but the intensity of the fit was greatly diminished.

My other dog was, ultimately, put on 60mgs a day. This dog used to vomit violently after his seizures before taking the drug. The pheno completely eliminated the heaving when he had the odd break-through seizure. He was lively and active on the drug, with no indication of lethargy.

It was important for the boys to have periodic blood tests to monitor their liver function, among other parameters. It was also imperative that neither of the boys were left uncrated when no one was home. The older of the two was quite the dominant male (even among my Golden Retriever boys). If he went down with a seizure, the other Norwich would roll up their collective sleeves and attack him.

Once the boys were put on the medication, they had it for the rest of their lives. Both boys lived to almost 16 years of age. Considering my fears about them being on pheno for so long, I'd say that's a great age (even for a dog not on the drug).

As worrying as it is to have an epileptic dog, with proper management both at home and with your vet, your dog can live a long, productive, happy life.
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Thankyou, for your informative post, 4 fits in one day must have been horrible. The lady at the rescue said the pheno can transform the dogs into zombies! Before we took her on I spoke with my vet at great length who said its possible she may need to be put on the drug but said that as long as they are infrequent and short, medication may not be necessary yet. Other than the fits she is happy and healthy. She is caged for her own safety , to protect her should my other dog turn,and the cage is huge. She never weed,poos or vomits with her fits but I am prepared for that to maybe happen down the line. 16 is a fantastic age! Thank you for your reassurance that the drug isn't as bad as I had thought.
 
HappyHooves said:
I read some research ages ago about helping epileptic dogs by giving vitamin E. Has anyone else heard this? It was in connection with collies who can be prone to epilepsy.

One word of advice, about the crating. We had a terrier crated in a good strong crate when a thunderstorm hit. Terrified, manic dog. Another of our dogs attacked the crate - maybe to get at the terrified dog who would have been yelling, I'm sure, or to let it out, which is doubtful - the heavy crate was pulled across the floor and both dogs sustained injuries requiring vet intervention despite terrified one remaining crated. So might be advisable to crate in a room alone?
Click to expand...

Oo, vitamin E , that sounds interesting, I've heard of people feeding honey but not vit e, I shall look into that. The dog has separation anxiety, I don't know if separating the dogs would stress her out more and bring on a fit. She wears a thunder shirt in her cage and she did have the adaptil for her first month. It's certainly something for me to bear in mind though, many thanks.
 
Rose Folly said:
I've had 3 epileptic dogs, - they were a black Labrador, a chocolate Labrador and a (probably) Dandie Dinmont x Basset Hound (he was a rescue dog). These were from 20 years ago to about 8 years ago, so things will have moved on, but:

a) The epilepsy of all the dogs was fairly certainly caused by their vaccinations. I have only just started vaccinating my dogs again, on the reassurance of my vet that the drugs used have been changed

b) The treatment then was Mysoline (the same drug is, I understand, used for humans too). The black Lab and the rescue dog were on a very low daily dose. the chocolate boy, who I acquired as a young dog, was already on high dosage. His condition got worse and worse until he went into permanent epilepsy (I think it's called status epileptic or something like that, and tragically had to be put down

c) The Mysoline didn't affect them at all. The Lab had it for 10 years and died aged 15 - the rescue was on it for about 8 years, and was 13. They had active and I hope happy lives, very rarely fitted once they were on medication, and had no side effects. I would strongly recommend your dogs being on medication - a low dose will act as a preventative

d) I was told, and it appeared to be true, that a dog will never have a fit while it is active (e.g. out on a walk or romping with another dog). Certainly in mine it ALWAYS happened when they were resting. To that end I would be very unhappy about leaving your dog in a cage. the confined space will make it very difficult for it to move round, and then to recover properly afterwards. On the whole dogs do not hurt themselves while having fits. They may (mine never did) bite someone by accident, but that is honestly the owner's fault. The golden rules are:
Click to expand...

My dog has never fitted during exercise, it's always been when resting, she starts to slaver loads , looks at floor and her tail stump points down. We put her on the floor - if on settee, and put a blanket under her and just talk her through it. I'd never put my hand near her mouth. My other dog mostly sits watching her , she's anxious when dog is fitting its almost as if she's worried for her.
A low dose as a preventative , I'd never thought of it that way. I'm surprised the vet didn't suggest, I will ring them and have a chat. Thankyou.
 
henmother said:
Oo, vitamin E , that sounds interesting, I've heard of people feeding honey but not vit e, I shall look into that. The dog has separation anxiety, I don't know if separating the dogs would stress her out more and bring on a fit. She wears a thunder shirt in her cage and she did have the adaptil for her first month. It's certainly something for me to bear in mind though, many thanks.
Click to expand...

This is one link that might be useful but not the research paper; will try to find original. Looks as if Vit E might be helpful from this link though.
http://www.canine-seizures.freeservers.com/vitamin_supplements.htm
 
Dear OP
My little terrier is epileptic. She was prescribed pheno (tiny dose), and the fits stopped but she was asleep most of the time.
I have stopped the medication myself, and she has about 1 fit every 3-4 months that I see. They last 2-4 minutes and she's a bit tired afterwards, but is soon back to her usual self.
I have the medication just in case it got worse. Then I'd re-start it again, but she seems fine at the moment.
good luck with yours.
 
Generally, pheno shouldn't cause the dog to become a zombie. If it does, it usually means the dose is too high. The key words here are generally and usually. I knew of a Golden bitch that was practically sleep-walking on 30mgs. That dose wouldn't have had any affect on either of my Norwich. Again, not all dogs metabolise the drug in the same manner. It is most important to administer the drug through trial and error to come to a satisfactory result. I have heard of the vitamin E protocol, but have not had any success with its application. Remember, vitamin E has to be balanced with selenium. Selenium is toxic in higher doses, so that must be balanced as well. Without a specific cause, these seizures are referred to as idiopathic epilepsy. If you find that your bitch is having seizures more often, or with more intensity, putting her on the drug can help to avoid the possibility of the very dangerous status epilepticus. If you find she is having fewer and less intense fits, the prospect of medicating her will be diminished. Good luck whatever you decide.
 
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