EPSM Horse and turn out.

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George123

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Hi,

If there is anyone out there with an EPSM horse, I would be interested to hear from you regarding how much excersize/turnout your horse gets..

My horse has now been on the EPSM diet for 3.5months, she has improved in a lot of way but is still not 100%. I know this can take 4-6 months but I am wondering whether I can help her further by changing her routine.

Currently, she is out at night and in during the day - I did this to avoid her grazing when the sugar levels are high. My mare was suspected of EPSM in Spring as her condition was bought on/accelerated by the spring grass so I have always tried to keep her off the grass.

Now though, I am wondering whether more excersize will help her. She Comes in around 7AM and then I ride her between 2 & 4PM everyday, straight from the stable...She has good days and bad days and the good days seem to be when I ride her earlier, which would make sense I guess as there is less time for her to get stiff. She is stabled with a magnetic rug and she is hacked everyday between 1 & 3 hours. She is still struggling to canter, especially up hills - she takes off as though she wants to go and then just runs out of steam after about 5 strides....this is an improvement though!

Anyway, I am contemplating turning her out for a couple of hours before I ride her to see whether that helps her, but it seems like a catch22 as I also dont want her to have more grass....Our paddock is pretty bare now though.

Does anyone have any experience whether more or less turnout v grass works for your horse?

Thanks for reading this lenghty post!

George :-)
 
I had various little rules for my horse, he was a shiverer not diagnosed with EPSM, but I followed the diet etc and it helped him no end.

Min of 8 hours turnout (i very rarely managed to find a yard that would turn out pm)
Magnet boots on back legs overnight (to help with circulation)
MSM on loading dose.
Never ride straight out of the box (at least an hours turnout)
Keep as fit as his body would allow, which was prolly 5 days mixed work.
Clipped during winter as he seemed to find work easier when cooler.
Over rugged at all times.

With these rules I turned him from a horse vets said wouldnt be ridden to a successful low level affiliated dressage horse. Unfort I lost him this year to cushings of all things, but not EPSM!

Hope that helps x
 
Dany Hi!

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear you lost your horse.....In the end, I guess you were beaten but it certaily sounds as though you had sorted the routine...It's very interesting reading as is similar to what I have "ended up" with...

My horse has been having 12 hours turnout overnight since Spring and during the day I use a magnetic rug,

I also noticed the over-rugging thing as she was much worse when she was cold..

Interestingly, today I have started turning out before I ride as it's the only non-ideal part of our routine..By the time I get back up the yad to ride, it's quite often 4PM which means she has been stood in since 7 and being ridden straight from the box....A couple of weeks ago, I rode her in the morning straight from the field and she seemed much better, so ut will be interesting...

It's such a catch22 tho, as daytime turnout means increased sugar levels in field....luckily it is very bare now, so that should help!

Thanks for your post,

George :-)
 
To be honest I didnt have to worry about the grass to much, there was one instance were my vet thought he had grass sickness, but I think it was a case that the grass had been grown on very peaty earth and was too rich. So after that, I made sure he wasnt put out on quality pasture.

How are you finding the diet?

Good luck, these horses can be managed easily once in a routine.
 
Last year Marley tied up 3x and a very unpleasant experience. He was then diagnosed with PSSM which is the same thing I believe, bloods were sent of to the states for analysis. Anyway since last year he has not tied up. Out regime is as follows
Rough strip grazed during the day, I move the strip over a little so first thing in the morning they get a few mouthfuls of fresh grass (just being soft) then in dry paddock overnight with very well soaked hay, never stabled. Supplements he has unmollased sugarbeet laced with Benevit(multivit) and a good dose of salts. He is exercise 4/5 times a week for about 2 hrs a time. He has not tied up since. Oh and he is a lot slimmer than last year. Good luck you need to find what works for your horse.
What breed is your horse and is he overweight. I say this because last year Marley was exercised less, on much richer grazing, fat, and was not receiving the supplements so whether its just a fluke or its working because of the change I just have to hope so. Good luck I know its a worry and frustrating getting it right.
 
My boy has shivers which got noticably worse after 4 months box rest for colic surgery.

He is out 24/7 for as long as weather allows- he usually comes in November time overnight for afew months until weather is better then he's back out again.
The turnout helps him loads and having a big stable to move around in I believe helps alot too. He's ridden/ lunged 5 times a week- mostly hacking in summer and seems to be doing well on this.

Sounds like your mare is better off mobility wise with more turnout too, different situation but along similar lines, my boy is worse being shod behind after being stabled and still compared to coming to the farrier straight from the field.
 
glosgirl said:
Hi,
I'm sorry that I can't help with your post. Just wondering what EPSM is?
Click to expand...

Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy (sp!) also known as PSSM Polysaccharide
Storage Myopathy. Google it there is loads of information in the USA as it is often associated with quarter horses, and (allegedly) certain bloodlines.

Relatively new news to the vets in the UK. They usually like to do a muscle biopsy to test for it in this country. Animal Genetics will do a hair test but the muscle biopsy is probably the better test.
 
Thanks everyone!

I tried a little experiment today and broke her routine slightly....She is usually out overnight and bought in @ 7 and then stays in with magnetic rug till around 3-4PM and I then ride her...I have been doing this as her EPSM seemed to come about when the spring grass came through so I have been very wary of putting her out in the day due to higher sugar levels in the grass.....

Tho, this does seem like a catch22 as standing in doesn't help....She has been on the diet for 3.5 months and has been doing well...Has definately improved but is still not back to the way she was...So today I turned her back out at 1:30 and then bought her back in around 5 and rode her straight away, so she had been exersizing in the field rather than standing in the stable....She really was tonnes better!

So I think I am at the conclusion that more excersize but increased sugar is better than less excersize and reduced sugar...

So I am going to stick with this routine for a bit and see whether it makes much difference in the long run. If it does, I shall start turning her out earlier and earlier and then 24/7 - at least for the remainder of the summer....

My horse is a warmblood (Dutch x Selle Francais) 16.1hh 8YO Mare - She has done very well on the diet, she isn't fat but looks great, she is now well muscled and trim..She is ridden most weeks everyday - all hacking between 1-3 hours with the occasional jump, she hasnt been inthe school for 4 months now tho I do school out hacking...

I was just getting a little paranoid that at 3.5 months into the diet she should be 100% normal....But I think going by what others have experienced, I maybe being a little impatient!

George
 
Hey George

Thats great to hear a little turnout beforehand has made an improvement to the ridden work. Im not sure my boy ever became normal on the diet, he improved a little bit everyday for years, but still had the odd sticky day.

Have you thought about adding MSM to the diet? I really would recommend it to anyone with this condition, as it really helps the muscles repair and normalize. Ive always been on livery yards and in turn been at the mercy of the person who makes the feeds, but always new when they hadnt put it in (took 4 days to come out of the system) So I know it was helping.
 
Wow, thanks for that Dany - It's these littel things that you could never know about if it wasn't for these forums!!

Great, I have just been online and ordered MSM....

Thanks everso much for all your input....

George :-)
 
My pleasure, I hope it helps, please stay in touch and let me know how it goes x

Just one last thing, I always gave the loading dose, you go through it much quicker of course, but if you buy the equine america tub for £14.99, it should still last you a month x
 
Our EPSMer is also a native so has to have restricted turnout due to lammy risk. He has to have restricted turnout with a muzzle when the grass is lush. He is just now going out without the muzzle and goes out around 7am and comes in about 6pm.

He only needs extra oil in winter as he seems to have the variant that is more starch sensitivity. His feeds have to be 3.5% starch, any more than that triggers an attack.
Black oil sunflower seeds are an excellent alternative to veg oil and he loves them.

Definitely over-rug, he is always in a rug even in the warmest weather and doesn't sweat despite being a hairy. In cooler weather he is always warmed up with a fleece quarter sheet on. I competed him successfully for almost 3 years in affiliated dressage up to medium level so it is possible to compete these horses. He is retired from competition now as he has developed arthritis secondary to a severe pedal bone rotation a few years ago. Still ridden but needs a sachet of bute 3 times a week in cooler weather.

use magnets with him with good effect. Also worth trying Alcar powder fed at 1g per 100kg bodyweight.

It took over 6 months to see the full benefit of the diet with him and another 2 or 3 years to get him back to his previous level of work. Consistent exercise seems to work best with him as he is at his best when ridden most days. long warm ups and long warm downs.
 
With Marley I think of it like this.... think of his muscles being a sugar bag, what you need to avoid is that sugar bag becoming full to critical point, so no grain what so ever, you only need to feed oil if your horse needs condition and more energy for the workload as this oil will replace the calories that sugar would give and train the muscles to use the oil for energy rather than sugar (there is a scientific explanation ). So how can you decrease the sugar, strip graze and let this wonderful hot sun burn off the short bits so they basically eat standing hay or use a muzzle (check out dinky rug muzzles), all hay should be soaked really well. But no carrots, apples, grain and polos. Salts are essential. How does this compare with the current diet? And good luck getting to 24/7 turnout that is going o be a huge plus and take the pressure off you to exercise so much, specially in the winter when they run around to keep warm.
 
Thanks everyone,

Dany - Wow, what a result, it was the Equine America MSM I ordered!! Nice one, it has already been sent too so I will start her on is asap and stick with the loading rate as you suggest :=)

Again today, I turned her out for a few hours before riding, so rode her straight from the field rather than the stable...She was sooooo much better again.....We went for a canter inthe field...I managed to kick her on and she actually went, I could almost call it a gallop!!! She would only usually manage 5 strides before grinding to a halt....So this is good....

I'm going to stick with this now and gradually work towards 24 hours....

Daisy2 - thanks for your input - Yes, she has added salt and electrolytes and I soak the hay for a min of 12 hours, I also soak it with salt to make it more palatable...She no longer has apples/carrots etc :-(

LGD - Thanks and it's great to hear about the level you managed to get your horse working at, well done!! I bought this horse to event, she was a showjumper - fingers X'd she will get a caner/gallop back!!!

George
 
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