Epsom Derby meeting and protests

[Rumtytum]

These protestors are similar to pETA in that that don’t want any animsl to be domesticated. So no more dogs, cats, horses, cows, sheep, pigs, Guinea pigs, hamsters, goldfish etc etc

Any one with an ounce of sense knows cats domesticated humans

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Any one with an ounce of sense knows cats domesticated humans

Cats most definitely control humans!

What I love about the people that start on about racing only being for the upper classes is they forget just how many people work with these animals for minimum wage. Just how many people work on the racecourses in various capacities from security to bar staff. They forget just how many people work in betting shops, feed merchants, vets, farriers etc. There is far more to racing than just owning a horse.

These 3000 person £60 a share syndicates are great for racing. They give normal people the chance to "own" a tail hair. But more than that it gives people a community, something to talk about with friends and family, somewhere to go every few weeks. We tend to find that a lot of people who have these shares have a much fuller life because they meet new people. A lot of these owners are retired and it gives them something to do and to look forward too. And if your not one of the lucky few who get an owners badge for that race meeting you can be sure a lot more pay for their ticket in to watch their horse which then brings more money into the sport and thus in in tax.

But these big syndicates are another topic for another day.

 

[Rokele55]

I feel that those who need to 'rewild' animals which have been domesticated for a very long time should possibly 'rewild' themselves to live alongside the animals they want to live in their 'natural state'. Humans were once, after all, also undomesticated.

 

[Kunoichi73]

I feel that those who need to 'rewild' animals which have been domesticated for a very long time should possibly 'rewild' themselves to live alongside the animals they want to live in their 'natural state'. Humans were once, after all, also undomesticated.

I work with a few who still are undomesticated...

 

[reynold]

Animal Rising protester to remain in custody after being refused bail at magistrates' court

The Animal Rising protester who will remain in custody after being refused bail at Guildford Magistrates' Court on Monday. Ben Newman, who was... Read More

www.racingpost.com

The idiot that got onto the track has been remanded in custody until July.

Also at the end of the article information on progress in cases against the protestors at the Scottish GN

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I'm glad the courts are taking it seriously and are making an example of the guy who got onto the track at Epsom. It might make others think twice before being so reckless.

 

[palo1]

IF, just IF we rewilded all the animals, how would those in charge of that ensure that neither we nor the animals didn't then take advantage of any domestic type situations - such as feral dogs/wolves raiding bins or feral horses/deer sticking close to human habitation/eating crops (which might make them ill too...) ? How would all that be policed? I mean if you had a rewilded cat or dog that insisted on coming into your house to sleep on the sofa are you supposed to turf it out? If there were deer that shared your veggie patch would you be guilty of encouraging them? It seems very likely that way back in our history that is exactly what did happen (minus the cat flaps lol) so how would we ensure that we could never 'engage' again in those ways? Who would police our interaction with animals? Would it be a crime to feed hungry hedgehogs or provide treatment to a wounded/sick foal/deer/wolf puppy etc? I guess Animal Rising want the interaction to be entirely one way but I can't see how that could ever work. If we don't have grazing animals our swifts and swallows for example would have less/nothing to eat. In a totally rewilded area with high levels of scrub they would definitely lose out and that isn't something that avid rewilders ever really want to acknowledge or discuss (ie the species that 'lose' because they have evolved to work with a human influencd landscape). Would Mason bees be considered as being contaminated by human contact because of their need to nest in building walls/masonry? I am definitely interested and generally supportive of aspects of rewilding but AR's agenda just feels like really, really shallow thinking to me...

 

[toppedoff]

IF, just IF we rewilded all the animals, how would those in charge of that ensure that neither we nor the animals didn't then take advantage of any domestic type situations - such as feral dogs/wolves raiding bins or feral horses/deer sticking close to human habitation/eating crops (which might make them ill too...) ? How would all that be policed? I mean if you had a rewilded cat or dog that insisted on coming into your house to sleep on the sofa are you supposed to turf it out? If there were deer that shared your veggie patch would you be guilty of encouraging them? It seems very likely that way back in our history that is exactly what did happen (minus the cat flaps lol) so how would we ensure that we could never 'engage' again in those ways? Who would police our interaction with animals? Would it be a crime to feed hungry hedgehogs or provide treatment to a wounded/sick foal/deer/wolf puppy etc? I guess Animal Rising want the interaction to be entirely one way but I can't see how that could ever work. If we don't have grazing animals our swifts and swallows for example would have less/nothing to eat. In a totally rewilded area with high levels of scrub they would definitely lose out and that isn't something that avid rewilders ever really want to acknowledge or discuss (ie the species that 'lose' because they have evolved to work with a human influencd landscape). Would Mason bees be considered as being contaminated by human contact because of their need to nest in building walls/masonry? I am definitely interested and generally supportive of aspects of rewilding but AR's agenda just feels like really, really shallow thinking to me...

i think its to provoke, i dont think anyone would genuinely believe that can happen. itll be absolutely need full proof planning but the idea to me is so funny, i imagine a 10yr sentence for making a deer who is eatng your veggies and be told you were challenging natural life!

 

[humblepie]

I liked the guy on one of the TV interviews who said about going to the zoo to see deer. Now I imagine that in some areas you do and wildlife parks have exotic deer but I heard in another programme that we have more wild deer now that ever or at least since deer records began. I definitely see a lot more. It used to be quite rare now pretty much every day.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I liked the guy on one of the TV interviews who said about going to the zoo to see deer. Now I imagine that in some areas you do and wildlife parks have exotic deer but I heard in another programme that we have more wild deer now that ever or at least since deer records began. I definitely see a lot more. It used to be quite rare now pretty much every day.

There are a lot around here too. A lot of dead ones at the side of the road as well. A tonne of swans too randomly. We only ever really had the nesting pair over the back but this year we have had a flock of 30 odd floating about getting stuck in powerlines and things.

Maybe AR should protest all overhead cables so the birds can't get stuck in them.

 

[humblepie]

Oh wow to all those swans.

 

[Lexi 123]

what people don’t realise is this method works because it brings it into the news and social media. It also will eventually change the public opinion on an industry that relies on the public and public opinion. It would lead to horse racing being banned eventually. I personally can see horse racing being banned in 50 years . it’s definitely not a sport that’s going to survive into the future to be honest I don’t see the horse industry in general surviving .

 

[toppedoff]

what people don’t realise is this method works because it brings it into the news and social media. It also will eventually change the public opinion on an industry that relies on the public and public opinion. It would lead to horse racing being banned eventually. I personally can see horse racing being banned in 50 years . it’s definitely not a sport that’s going to survive into the future to be honest I don’t see the horse industry in general surviving .

it is interesting, theyve even said themselves it isnt a welfare issue they just want horses free - but of course, there are groups out there who are in it for the welfare

AR is just sending a message out in an extreme way

 

[palo1]

There are a lot around here too. A lot of dead ones at the side of the road as well. A tonne of swans too randomly. We only ever really had the nesting pair over the back but this year we have had a flock of 30 odd floating about getting stuck in powerlines and things.

Maybe AR should protest all overhead cables so the birds can't get stuck in them.

Deer numbers in the UK are extraordinarily high and generally that isn't considered a good thing for deer health and vitality or biodiversity. They are hugely destructive to young trees and emerging scrub too and if we are to really improve the UK's tree cover, wood meadow and other important habitats there will have to be difficult conversations had and actions taken wrt deer culling. That isn't that contentious but it might become so if groups like AR and other un-nuanced points of view gain traction with large parts of the population who dont directly come into contact with deer. The problem that deer can cause was one of the primary drivers for the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone; with dramatically beneficial effects but here that isn't really going to work...

 

[Time for Tea]

Deer numbers in the UK are extraordinarily high and generally that isn't considered a good thing for deer health and vitality or biodiversity. They are hugely destructive to young trees and emerging scrub too and if we are to really improve the UK's tree cover, wood meadow and other important habitats there will have to be difficult conversations had and actions taken wrt deer culling. That isn't that contentious but it might become so if groups like AR and other un-nuanced points of view gain traction with large parts of the population who dont directly come into contact with deer. The problem that deer can cause was one of the primary drivers for the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone; with dramatically beneficial effects but here that isn't really going to work...

Well it might if the nations canine population are released to exist on whatever they can catch. I think my German Shepherd would do pretty well. To begin with. Soon the dogs would have eaten everything including all the wildlife. Perhaps they would then start on the homo sapiens

 

[Snowfilly]

Deer numbers in the UK are extraordinarily high and generally that isn't considered a good thing for deer health and vitality or biodiversity. They are hugely destructive to young trees and emerging scrub too and if we are to really improve the UK's tree cover, wood meadow and other important habitats there will have to be difficult conversations had and actions taken wrt deer culling. That isn't that contentious but it might become so if groups like AR and other un-nuanced points of view gain traction with large parts of the population who dont directly come into contact with deer. The problem that deer can cause was one of the primary drivers for the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone; with dramatically beneficial effects but here that isn't really going to work...

Until about 6-7 years ago, seeing a deer near me was incredibly rare. Take a pic, talk about it to family, tell friends where it was so they might be able to see it the next day. They slowly got more common.

This week, I’ve seen three dead on the roadside in different places, all smashed up by cars, and disturbed two small herds in the woods. I’m also damn sure there’s been one in the field at the water because the dogs keep going beserk and they do drink there if it’s icy.

The numbers are terribly, awfully, out of control. I don’t know what they’re going to eat in winter.

 

[Time for Tea]

Until about 6-7 years ago, seeing a deer near me was incredibly rare. Take a pic, talk about it to family, tell friends where it was so they might be able to see it the next day. They slowly got more common.

This week, I’ve seen three dead on the roadside in different places, all smashed up by cars, and disturbed two small herds in the woods. I’m also damn sure there’s been one in the field at the water because the dogs keep going beserk and they do drink there if it’s icy.

The numbers are terribly, awfully, out of control. I don’t know what they’re going to eat in winter.

Yes, I agree. The woodlands/forest is just not regenerating, where I am, and is causing concern to Forestry England. We found 3 roe deer dead this winter on our land, not a mark on them, just curled up. We think they may have been eating laurel. German Shepherd not guilty. I have also seen 50 fallow deer on my paddock furthest from the house. Frequently! I have very little grass as can be imagined. It is a problem.

 

[Gamebird]

Yes, I agree. The woodlands/forest is just not regenerating, where I am, and is causing concern to Forestry England. We found 3 roe deer dead this winter on our land, not a mark on them, just curled up. We think they may have been eating laurel. German Shepherd not guilty. I have also seen 50 fallow deer on my paddock furthest from the house. Frequently! I have very little grass as can be imagined. It is a problem.

Forestry England have a culling scheme where they sell the meat:

Managing deer in the nation’s forests

The UK is home to six species of deer. Red deer and roe deer, which are native, and four introduced species: fallow, muntjac, sika and Chinese water deer.

www.forestryengland.uk

There aren't many meats with higher ethical standards than wild venison which has been stalked and shot - the numbers need to be reduced anyway, so producing the meat for sale is a logical idea.

I buy venison locally from a man who culls for local estates and farms (we're in a fairly wooded county in the east midlands). It might be roe, sika, fallow, muntjac etc. They sell it as joints and cuts, but also sausages, burgers, meatballs, mince, pies, ready meals etc. Good value, healthy, and about as ethical as meat gets.

 

[tristar]

i have seen deer running around totally confused screaming for their herd members who have been shot during the hunt, it haunts me

if i eat meat i prefer it to be from animals that have been monitored for disease and wormed


problem is deer are something special to me personally for some reason, their gentleness, beauty and shyness are captivating

 

[expanding_horizon]

i have seen deer running around totally confused screaming for their herd members who have been shot during the hunt, it haunts me

if i eat meat i prefer it to be from animals that have been monitored for disease and wormed


problem is deer are something special to me personally for some reason, their gentleness, beauty and shyness are captivating

Would you feel the same if a herd of deer was continually eating the grazing for your horse(s) by jumping into the field and grazing it?

 

[Time for Tea]

I agree wild venison is as ethical a meat as you will ever eat. I wish I liked it better. I would prefer to deer fence my field, but I can’t afford to. My patch is on top of a hill, so if I chase off 50/60 fallow deer they jump the fence and start running along the valley bottom, it is a magnificent sight. Particularly if a white buck is leading the way as he sometimes does. They are beautiful, but their numbers do need keeping in check. It isn’t just the grass or lack of it. It is the ticks!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I have acquaintances in Holland and Denmark where wolves have been repopulated into the wild. They are losing sheep, lambs, calfs, foals and ponies to the wolves along with tidying up the carnage of the wild animals they chase down and leave bits of.

It's not a viable solution in this country as even the Highlands of Scotland aren't big enough for a pack of wolves.

 

[Time for Tea]

I have acquaintances in Holland and Denmark where wolves have been repopulated into the wild. They are losing sheep, lambs, calfs, foals and ponies to the wolves along with tidying up the carnage of the wild animals they chase down and leave bits of.

It's not a viable solution in this country as even the Highlands of Scotland aren't big enough for a pack of wolves.

We just don’t have enough space do we? The wolves, I suppose, hunt down whatever is the easiest prey. Not necessarily what they “ought” to be eating.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

We just don’t have enough space do we? The wolves, I suppose, hunt down whatever is the easiest prey. Not necessarily what they “ought” to be eating.

No space is a huge issue in this country. Prey animals take what they want when they want with no discrimination. You can't exactly put up a sign saying "Not Wolf Food" and expect them to respect it.

Culling is the only viable option in this country but then that will cause uproar because Bambi's are just cute and fluffy! Same as Badgers.

I do love a hodgeheg though! But they do plenty of damage in their own right.

 

[reynold]

Holland is actually quite a crowded country population v land area. The polders aren't so crowded but the rest is town merging into the next town. I lived in Eindhoven for 8 months and saw areas from Maastrict to the Belgian/German borders and out into the polders. If they are having those problems with rewilding then it will be even worse over here.

However the townie protestors and pro-rewilding promoters don't tend to make their living from the land so have no actual concept of farming and how it can't afford (arable or animal) the predations of out of control wild animal populations.

The farmer my OH works for (for free as he's retired otherwise they couldn't afford the wages) is 75. His neighbour is 80 and the farm over the back are both in their 70s. All 300-500 acre farms. None of the various children want to carry on the farms. None of the farms make enough of a living for the farmers, certainly not the one my OH helps at. If our farmer was a townie he'd be going to food banks to survive...

The average age of farmers is almost at the point where farming will cease naturally as no-one will want to do it other than the large commercial concerns with little 'heart' for the land and ecology and run by accountants who just see balance sheets. I foresee that as the older farmers die more and more farms will end up being covered in concrete and houses to the detriment of the overall well-being of the population. Even townies need the countryside as a sort of 'natural park' for their amusement.

I saw a figure this week (can't remember where) that the population of the UK will be 80 million by 2035 if immigration (legal plus illegal) continues at it's current rate. ATM we produce less than 50% of the food needed in this country for it's current population. The housing and infrastructure needs for that sort of population growth taken with the loss of farmland to this housing means the % of food produced v loss of land for farming v increased population will probably drop to 30% or so.

We've got a war in europe, wars elsewhere, climate change reducing crop yields, plus impacts of natural disasters on global trade. We should be trying to increase our % of food produced in this country, not reducing it with idiotic rewilding schemes.

 

[Time for Tea]

Holland is actually quite a crowded country population v land area. The polders aren't so crowded but the rest is town merging into the next town. I lived in Eindhoven for 8 months and saw areas from Maastrict to the Belgian/German borders and out into the polders. If they are having those problems with rewilding then it will be even worse over here.

However the townie protestors and pro-rewilding promoters don't tend to make their living from the land so have no actual concept of farming and how it can't afford (arable or animal) the predations of out of control wild animal populations.

The farmer my OH works for (for free as he's retired otherwise they couldn't afford the wages) is 75. His neighbour is 80 and the farm over the back are both in their 70s. All 300-500 acre farms. None of the various children want to carry on the farms. None of the farms make enough of a living for the farmers, certainly not the one my OH helps at. If our farmer was a townie he'd be going to food banks to survive...

The average age of farmers is almost at the point where farming will cease naturally as no-one will want to do it other than the large commercial concerns with little 'heart' for the land and ecology and run by accountants who just see balance sheets. I foresee that as the older farmers die more and more farms will end up being covered in concrete and houses to the detriment of the overall well-being of the population. Even townies need the countryside as a sort of 'natural park' for their amusement.

I saw a figure this week (can't remember where) that the population of the UK will be 80 million by 2035 if immigration (legal plus illegal) continues at it's current rate. ATM we produce less than 50% of the food needed in this country for it's current population. The housing and infrastructure needs for that sort of population growth taken with the loss of farmland to this housing means the % of food produced v loss of land for farming v increased population will probably drop to 30% or so.

We've got a war in europe, wars elsewhere, climate change reducing crop yields, plus impacts of natural disasters on global trade. We should be trying to increase our % of food produced in this country, not reducing it with idiotic rewilding schemes.

I also noted that cheerful statistic somewhere this week. I think it was said that 18 cities the size of Birmingham would need to be added.
Statistical speculation I sincerely hope! I agree such an increase would be to the detriment of everyone‘ s well being. Really that’s an understatement.
On plus side, I met a young man last week, he’s at agricultural college doing a farming course. He is full of energy and enthusiasm with a huge work ethic (going to need it I’m sure) and he can’t wait to start work on his uncles farm in Yorkshire. If I see him again I will ask him his opinion of rewilding schemes. They must be covering the subject at agricultural college these days.

 

[Highmileagecob]

I wonder if the Epsom rent-a-mob will turn up at Appleby to protest about the ponies on the flashing road? For those who have never been or seen, this is a long straight road at the top of Fair Hill where the trotters and pacers are raced.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I wonder if the Epsom rent-a-mob will turn up at Appleby to protest about the ponies on the flashing road? For those who have never been or seen, this is a long straight road at the top of Fair Hill where the trotters and pacers are raced.

No they won't. They have been asked this numerous times and they completely ignore the subject. Because they know the minute they arrived they would have the bejesus kicked out of them then tossed into the river.

 

[reynold]

Five animal rights protesters who got on the course at Doncaster plead not guilty to public nuisance charge

Five animal rights campaigners who delayed racing by getting on the course at Doncaster last month and attempting to make a sit-down protest pleaded... Read More

www.racingpost.com

The Doncaster protesters face a 5 day trial but not until March 2024

Seems this long delay between crime and court is now 'normal' as the JSO idiots that blocked the M25 for several days in 2021 have only just been in court.

 

[Velcrobum]

Animal Rising protester to remain in custody after being refused bail at magistrates' court

The Animal Rising protester who will remain in custody after being refused bail at Guildford Magistrates' Court on Monday. Ben Newman, who was... Read More

www.racingpost.com

The idiot that got onto the track has been remanded in custody until July.

Also at the end of the article information on progress in cases against the protestors at the Scottish GN

I know I am late to this but I am glad he has been remanded in custody, with luck he will might just decide the action he took was not worth further jail time. I wonder how the threat to sue the man who disrupted the snooker is going??