Equ-Streamz - Your Experiences?

[acorn92x]

Well we respect that and understand.

There is a significant cost to manufacture the material (it is made in the UK) and we are a business with overheads like any other business. £80 in the great scheme of owning and managing a horse is very little! One of the very largest distributors was pushing us to make them £139.99 per pair - we resisted. Our aim was to provide a solution to that is available to most that own a horse.

I appreciate your honesty here and the fact that you have be very straight about the tests etc that the bands have undergone does make me more inclined to give them a go. £139.99 is quite frankly a ridiculous sum of money and I understand the need for your business to make money like any other. I know owning horses is expensive business and £80 is a reasonable sum if the product works but again, it's the lack of testing that stops me from investing. At the moment anyway - I get paid on Wednesday so who knows what might happen! This message does lack a direct focus and is beginning to ramble so Matt, I do appreciate your understanding and very honest posts!

 

[jojo5]

Hi Matt - can I ask - does the money back guarantee extend to Youstreamz? I have an arthritic condition which leads to painful joints and headaches and would love not to take so many painkillers. However, I am a little sceptical about this product's efficacy in my case - other products such as magnets have not worked. If by any chance your product worked for me, I would be only too happy to endorse it anywhere, but would also like to know that I could be reimbursed if it did not work. Am happy to message you with private contact details as necessary.

 

[PStarfish]

Being curious I have just taken a look. Whether it works or not, the main thing that struck me was that you could not see what you are buying - no images of the bands themselves (unless I am missing something). Might be worth some images on your website.

 

[blitznbobs]

Tbh I think it's snake oil but I think the same about magnets and lots of people swear by those ... If you don't believe in them don't buy them... I'd love to know the physiology of their mode of action and where is your evidence published? I'd like to read it... Then I can make a more educated view than - it works cos we say it works... I have opinions but evidence can change my opinion...

Ps a clinical trial doesn't have to cost much all you need is your bands some horses with sore joints and some dummy bands... And a couple of blood tests in the grand scheme of things not much money ...

 

[ihatework]

Tbh I think it's snake oil but I think the same about magnets and lots of people swear by those ... If you don't believe in them don't buy them... I'd love to know the physiology of their mode of action and where is your evidence published? I'd like to read it... Then I can make a more educated view than - it works cos we say it works... I have opinions but evidence can change my opinion...

Ps a clinical trial doesn't have to cost much all you need is your bands some horses with sore joints and some dummy bands... And a couple of blood tests in the grand scheme of things not much money ...

I think you would be surprised at how much even a relatively small clinical trial would cost (a credible trial that is!)

 

[Matt at streamz]

Hi Matt - can I ask - does the money back guarantee extend to Youstreamz? I have an arthritic condition which leads to painful joints and headaches and would love not to take so many painkillers. However, I am a little sceptical about this product's efficacy in my case - other products such as magnets have not worked. If by any chance your product worked for me, I would be only too happy to endorse it anywhere, but would also like to know that I could be reimbursed if it did not work. Am happy to message you with private contact details as necessary.

Yes, as i say it is not a "standard protocol" but i would be happy to authorise a return if you do not receive any benefit.... if you do buy one then drop me an email matt(at)streamz-global.com with the reference number and i'll put it on our CRM system... Good luck and thanks for being open minded

 

[blitznbobs]

I think you would be surprised at how much even a relatively small clinical trial would cost (a credible trial that is!)

And the publish evidence is published where?

 

[Matt at streamz]

Tbh I think it's snake oil but I think the same about magnets and lots of people swear by those ... If you don't believe in them don't buy them... I'd love to know the physiology of their mode of action and where is your evidence published? I'd like to read it... Then I can make a more educated view than - it works cos we say it works... I have opinions but evidence can change my opinion...

Ps a clinical trial doesn't have to cost much all you need is your bands some horses with sore joints and some dummy bands... And a couple of blood tests in the grand scheme of things not much money ...

I agree; if someone doesnt believe then we fully respect that.

You are (unfortunately) incorrect with your "all you need is" comment. If only it was that easy. A clinical trial is a particular type of clinical research that compares one treatment with another. To be accepted as 'clinically approved' we must work with a registered/authorised research organisation. We cannot do a clinical trial ourselves. We can do 'field/study trials' ourselves which we have done and continue to do.

Here is one we did on 40 horses with inflammation/mobility issues. All of these are on FB so if you have any questions aim it at our FB page and the owners will hopefully give you the answers...
https://www.quicksurveys.com/s/n6LFd5

We are working with various organisations such as the Eden Project and FERA to establish clinical studies with what impact the bands have on plants. We are in consultation with NICE regarding clinical trials with the NHS on our human band, and have just established routes to do the same with horses. As i say in previous posts, we are trying, and we are making progress - but, this takes time, money and patience.

Blood tests do not show up any clinical evidence, we would need to test on a molecular level. The MOST IMPORTANT thing for us to prove from the start was "do they work?".... the unanimous answer is YES.

 

[jojo5]

Matt - thanks for getting back to me and for offering the money back guarantee. I am going to private message you from this forum with my email address, and a couple of other questions.

 

[ihatework]

And the publish evidence is published where?

Sorry, I don't understand your question to me in the context it was posted.

 

[blitznbobs]

Sorry it wasn't directed at u

 

[Matt at streamz]

Being curious I have just taken a look. Whether it works or not, the main thing that struck me was that you could not see what you are buying - no images of the bands themselves (unless I am missing something). Might be worth some images on your website.

VERY TRUE - how ridiculous... thank you.
PS.. they look great! (see facebook)

 

[Matt at streamz]

And the publish evidence is published where?

Published via Toluna i believe... ? I will ask my colleagues.

 

[JFTDWS]

Where's JFTD when you need her?

I've been out photo-ing all day. This thread hurts my head.

Placebo effect. Regresssion to the mean. Look it up, people

If companies like this want to be taken seriously by the scientific industry, perhaps they could consider actually attempting not to make claims of efficacy without a decent double blind, having reasonable rationale behind their product (not mind numbing pseudo-science, ta) and not fall into the painfully common trap of declaring something is "natural" to imply it has no side effects. Where do you think NSAIDs came from originally anyway? This is one of my biggest pet hates - drives me crackers!

#despair

 

[JFTDWS]

Blood tests do not show up any clinical evidence, we would need to test on a molecular level. The MOST IMPORTANT thing for us to prove from the start was "do they work?".... the unanimous answer is YES.

1. The most important question you need to answer first is that they are safe. That's the first rule of treatment - prove it won't accidentally have a negative effect. Safety, then efficacy. And if you claim it can have an effect, it stands to reason it is at least potentially possible for it to have a detrimental effect - overdosing, perhaps?

2. Blood tests include loads of molecular tests. Even routine bloods test for certain molecules... Perhaps you mean atomic? Are you claiming your bands change molecules? Or amounts of molecules? Or the make up of molecules? Oh lordy, just seen the bit about the cyclotron... That's me out!

 

[Matt at streamz]

FINAL THOUGHTS

As a successful product proven to help many professional and non-competing horses (including with equestrian charities) we duly 'bow out' of this post...

I am happy to answer any questions but have no motivation to assist any negatively minded individuals, with very little understanding, and certainly NO ACTUAL BASIS TO DISCUSS about our product. We are a reputable business and if anyone who would like to know or discuss anything with us then feel free to call our office and talk to one of our team....Facebook says it all; do you see any negative posts or comments about the bands? Nope - because they ACTUALLY WORK!!!

Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful.

 

[cptrayes]

Trouble is Matt, you haven't PROVEN anything and its disingenuous to claim that you have until you have. You have some anecdotal evidence, you have no proof.

 

[undergroundoli]

Someone asked if the placebo effect works even if you are skeptical.

In Bad Science, which I heartily recommend to people, like me, who have arts backgrounds and brains, the author discusses the placebo effect and quotes research that strongly suggests it works no matter how sceptical you are. IIRC the studies used pills. The greater the intervention the stronger the placebo effect is (fake operations have fantastic success rates). I imagine most sceptics would see a pair of rubber bands as a pretty minor intervention.

Matt I'd be really interested in how you blinded your study with the 40 horses and how you decided which horses where in the two groups.

 

[Copperpot]

I would try them for the horses tbh. I spend a fortune on supplements, hock injections and tildren so what's £80 as a punt to see if they help. I guess if you don't try, you don't know.

When the horses were stabled I used magnetic boots for one that got filled legs with success.

If people want to use them and feel they help, then good for them. For those that don't want to, don't. Simples.

 

[ester]

I don't like the well if it isn't hurting anyone and only costing ££ attitude tbh. I had to move away from people having a mojo conversation at west wilts last Friday along the lines of well it is only £30 so if it doesn't work ... I sort of see that £30 as unfairly gained by the company using sales and marketing spiel for a product which doesn't work.

The website information and basic errors do make me worry that about the scientific understanding of the people currently involved in the company and as JFTD says safety should always be the number 1 concern.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful.

As you seem to have so poor a knowledge of the 'science' behind your product, I assume that you are more of a marketing bod?

Please can I pass on a little tip. Do not p1ss off any potential customers reading this with smart @rse comments like this. Very unprofessional, and also very revealing.

 

[Swirlymurphy]

As you seem to have so poor a knowledge of the 'science' behind your product, I assume that you are more of a marketing bod?

Please can I pass on a little tip. Do not p1ss off any potential customers reading this with smart @rse comments like this. Very unprofessional, and also very revealing.

This. Without a doubt.

 

[JFTDWS]

FINAL THOUGHTS

As a successful product proven to help many professional and non-competing horses (including with equestrian charities) we duly 'bow out' of this post...

I am happy to answer any questions but have no motivation to assist any negatively minded individuals, with very little understanding, and certainly NO ACTUAL BASIS TO DISCUSS about our product. We are a reputable business and if anyone who would like to know or discuss anything with us then feel free to call our office and talk to one of our team....Facebook says it all; do you see any negative posts or comments about the bands? Nope - because they ACTUALLY WORK!!!

Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful.

Firstly, please stop making claims you cannot support. There are no published, peer reviewed, double blind trials, therefore you have no basis for that claim beyond anecdotal evidence. And the plural of anecdotes is not data.

Secondly, I would be careful who you are suggesting has "little understanding". I'm fairly willing to bet Ester and I have at least one bioscience degree more than you apiece and god knows how many years of experience in this field between us. If you claim to have made a wristband which acts like a cyclotron, I suggest you revisit your high school physics and question your own understanding of your "product".

Thirdly, facebook is not a well respected medium through which to publish scientific data.

Fourthly, who controls what is posted on your facebook page? I run pages and I know that I have the power to delete spam, irrelevant or undesirable posts, as do most companies who use social media. #shwmaegate

Finally, I have a life, I make many differences to other people's lives in the course of it (sometimes they're even positive) and I do many useful things. Debunking bad science is one of those things

 

[Matt at streamz]

Firstly, please stop making claims you cannot support. There are no published, peer reviewed, double blind trials, therefore you have no basis for that claim beyond anecdotal evidence. And the plural of anecdotes is not data.

Secondly, I would be careful who you are suggesting has "little understanding". I'm fairly willing to bet Ester and I have at least one bioscience degree more than you apiece and god knows how many years of experience in this field between us. If you claim to have made a wristband which acts like a cyclotron, I suggest you revisit your high school physics and question your own understanding of your "product".

Thirdly, facebook is not a well respected medium through which to publish scientific data.

Fourthly, who controls what is posted on your facebook page? I run pages and I know that I have the power to delete spam, irrelevant or undesirable posts, as do most companies who use social media. #shwmaegate

Finally, I have a life, I make many differences to other people's lives in the course of it (sometimes they're even positive) and I do many useful things. Debunking bad science is one of those things

None of these relate to the original post.

 

[cptrayes]

I see the results everyday - and plants dont get placebo (scientific proof that the material increases cell growth by 21.7% ADF, cellulose, and ADL, lignin.

Yes they do unless there is no human intervention in looking after those plans at all, or the humans are in a double blind trial.

There's a wonderful study showing how mastitis in cows is reduced by homeopathy. Trouble is, it can't be repeated if the farmers don't know which cows are on it and which aren't.

 

[ester]

None of these relate to the original post.

Threads do tend to evolve and develop on here, that is rather the point. More questions come up, more discussions happen - generally the nature of an internet forum.

 

[Matt at streamz]

This. Without a doubt.

Personal attacks on me are not the purpose of H&H public forum.

 

[cptrayes]

Personal attacks on me are not the purpose of H&H public forum.

Oh Matt. If I had any respect for you or your product it's certainly gone now. That comment was made in response to you telling sceptics like me to 'get a life'. There has been not one word of personal attack against you, just the lack of professionalism in your insulting post.

While I'm here, please remove the claim that 100% of horse owners recommend your product from your site, it is not true.

And you might also like to correct 'arterial fibrillation', the correct term is 'atrial fibrillation'.

 

[hairycob]

I don't any personal attacks on you, just knowledgable people questioning the basis of your marketing.

 

[blitznbobs]

What's that bloke who writes that bad science blog?? Can't remember his name...