Equest pramox yes or no?

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Nikkimac23

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Was recommended to use equest pramox to worm my mare but I’ve read some worrying things about it

what’s a good safe alternative
 
I would get a worm count kit plus an equisal kit from either Westgate or Poo post and find out what you need to worm for.

If you just worm for anything then all you do is increase resistance and put unnecessary chemicals into your horse. If you get a worm count done before worming (if it is needed) you will know the level of worm burden. If it is very high then it may affect the wormer you use or indicate that potentially you could have a problem that needs a resistance test to make sure the wormer has worked.
 
Rather than just worming you’ll need to get a worm count and a saliva test done. That way you can use the correct wormer for what you’re dealing with, if you need one at all.
There is currently a major problem with resistance to the key ingredients in wormers, and the industry is trying to move away from the old way of regular worming without counts.
In terms of wormer, Pramox is excellent but only if that is what you need. It can cause colic if you worm without knowing the true worm burden. This is the right time of year for it, but I would definitely worm count first.
 
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I wouldn’t worm anything with unknown history without a fecal egg count and a saliva tapeworm test. If you’re unable to do this, start with a dose of 5 day fenbendazole 10% (panacur is the equine brand but it’s waaaaaay overpriced.)

after a while (few weeks) you can do a double dose of strongid p for tape worms.
 
The only time I've dealt with colic due to worms was using Pramox on a little cob who had come from a low end dealers. Poor thing was riddled but was zapped alongside the rest of the yard one night and was in a right state the following morning.

Vets told me never to use Pramox on a horse with an unknown worm history because it was too potent if they had a high burden.

You're better to test first. With the pony I couldn't get near when I bought my fields I did a DD of strongid P in a bucket of food. The poo in his paddock the next day was grim and he had liquid diarrhea for 48 hours. I felt awful for him.
 
Starzaan said:
In terms of wormer, Pramox is excellent but only if that is what you need. It can cause colic if you worm without knowing the true worm burden. This is the right time of year for it, but I would definitely worm count first.
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Personally I think this (Starzaan's post) about sums it up.

We worm count then worm with Pramox as needed. Over the past 18 months, of the 10 horses on the yard, we've used Pramox for two. They had borderline counts (i.e. still pretty low). Over the four years I've been on the yard I've not seen anything react badly to Pramox. This isn't supposed to be hard evidence for anything - it's a tiny sample - I just thought I'd say it to give some balance. The problem with threads like this is that the people who reply tend to be the ones who've had a bad experience, so with my scientist hat on I worry that readers will go away with a very distorted view of the risks of Pramox in a healthy adult horse with no reason for a high worm burden.

That said I don't know why anyone would worm without first worm counting / saliva testing, given the resistance problem that's becoming increasingly obvious.
 
TOO EARLY FOR WINTER WORMING

And please don't use moxidectin for anything else! If a burden exists (and now is a good time to do tapework test, too), use an Ivermectin (+ praziquantel if tapeworm positive) wormer now, and after the harder frosts in early Jan, you can use a Moxi-based wormer. Ideally you would blood test to see if it is required, however that is a step too far more many (financially if nothing else) and so that is the right time of year to treat for encysted redworms that cannot be counted and encysted after evading or reinfecting post-Ivermectin.
 
MissTyc said:
TOO EARLY FOR WINTER WORMING

And please don't use moxidectin for anything else! If a burden exists (and now is a good time to do tapework test, too), use an Ivermectin (+ praziquantel if tapeworm positive) wormer now, and after the harder frosts in early Jan, you can use a Moxi-based wormer. Ideally you would blood test to see if it is required, however that is a step too far more many (financially if nothing else) and so that is the right time of year to treat for encysted redworms that cannot be counted and encysted after evading or reinfecting post-Ivermectin.
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I was completely gobsmacked yesterday. A very big local practice has just recommend worming an entire yard of 40 horses, many of which they don’t even know, (one of which colicked in July), without testing, in early November, with Pramox.

This is wrong on so many levels I am finding it difficult to believe, but I got it in writing from the person they said it to.
.
 
ycbm said:
This is wrong on so many levels I am finding it difficult to believe, but I got it in writing from the person they said it to..
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Can you or your friend contact the practice via email (so it's written down) to query the logic behind it? It's frustrating - for average horse owners (me included) who are trying to keep on top of best practice and have some understanding of what's the best thing to do, it's very confusing when vet practices make recommendations like this. No wonder there is such a problem.
 
ycbm said:
I was completely gobsmacked yesterday. A very big local practice has just recommend worming an entire yard of 40 horses, many of which they don’t even know, (one of which colicked in July), without testing, in early November, with Pramox.

This is wrong on so many levels I am finding it difficult to believe, but I got it in writing from the person they said it to.
.
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That's really bad :( Our vets have cleaned up their act over the last few years, but I also hounded them relentlessly. I am a client but have good knowledge + contacts at Moredun. In the end I managed to get the vets to update / modernise their thinking and advice to other clients, but it shouldn't have been up to me!
 
SEL said:
The only time I've dealt with colic due to worms was using Pramox on a little cob who had come from a low end dealers. Poor thing was riddled but was zapped alongside the rest of the yard one night and was in a right state the following morning.

Vets told me never to use Pramox on a horse with an unknown worm history because it was too potent if they had a high burden.

You're better to test first. With the pony I couldn't get near when I bought my fields I did a DD of strongid P in a bucket of food. The poo in his paddock the next day was grim and he had liquid diarrhea for 48 hours. I felt awful for him.
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So the vet was out to scan my horse and he took a worm count for me it’s come back very high ! He’s recommended the pramox but I’m really not keen to use it given the other stories especially on horses with a high count
Would the green equest be ok to use?
he’s not saliva tested her
Just to add of you haven’t seen my other post she is in foal also ?
 
Yeah
HappyHollyDays said:
I had a real ding dong with my vets who insisted on Pramox for mine even though one of them has colicked twice when I’ve used it before. In the end I won because I wasn’t going to risk my horses life but I felt it shouldn’t have been a battle in the first place.
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It seems a lot if people use it I’m glad I’d read the few threads on here as I’d bought it ready to use
Not willing to take the risk
 
Nikkimac23 said:
So the vet was out to scan my horse and he took a worm count for me it’s come back very high ! He’s recommended the pramox but I’m really not keen to use it given the other stories especially on horses with a high count
Would the green equest be ok to use?
he’s not saliva tested her
Just to add of you haven’t seen my other post she is in foal also ?
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My mare is in foal and I'm reluctant to use Pramox even though low worm count. Vet is doing a blood test for tapeworm = £££ but at least I'll know for sure if she needs to be treated for tapeworm. If not, then the green Equest should do all the rest.
 
Marigold4 said:
Nope, 100% sure the blood test is for tapeworm. There are currently two ways of testing for tapeworm: blood test and saliva test.
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yes I've had blood tests for tapes so very likely that. I thought it was always tested for that way before the equisal tests were invented.
 
ycbm said:
Of course it was but now there's a saliva test why pay so much more for the analysis of blood?
.
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I have no idea in this case as it was Marigold's horse and her vet.

I had them before the equisal test in one case and in the other as the horse was in hospital in an emergency and that was what they did.
 
I bought a young pony a few years back. It had a bout of mild colic. Previous owner had said pony wormed regularly, so I didn't think worms. Second bout of mildish colic, tested with Equisal, low tapeworm burden. Third bout and old school vet said do blood test = high tapeworm result. Wormed pony for tapeworm; no more colic. I believe my old school vet is not the only one who is sceptical about the saliva test.
 
Marigold4 said:
I bought a young pony a few years back. It had a bout of mild colic. Previous owner had said pony wormed regularly, so I didn't think worms. Second bout of mildish colic, tested with Equisal, low tapeworm burden. Third bout and old school vet said do blood test = high tapeworm result. Wormed pony for tapeworm; no more colic. I believe my old school vet is not the only one who is sceptical about the saliva test.
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Interesting!. I have a lot of faith in old school, (with caution) Old school relied on observation ,deduction and logic. No modern gadgets slavishly followed. (Hell, spell check tried to put in Lavishly ,but I guess that also works,lol)
 
Bob notacob said:
Interesting!. I have a lot of faith in old school, (with caution) Old school relied on observation ,deduction and logic. No modern gadgets slavishly followed. (Hell, spell check tried to put in Lavishly ,but I guess that also works,lol)
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The Equisal is 80% accurate so I guess my one was one of the 20% inaccuate/false negative results. Vet's experienced instincts were proved to be right.
 
ycbm said:
Of course it was but now there's a saliva test why pay so much more for the analysis of blood?
.
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did you ask this question for a reason? In view of M's reply about equisal do you have reasons to doubt the test? I have wondered about it, I have had a few strange results. Just curious:).
 
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