EQUI-AMI thoughts?

Horsekaren

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a bit of a pondering thread.

Has anyone used one of these? what did you make of it?

My thoughts are starting to turn to winter with dark evenings and im trying to think of a few quick things i could possible incorporate into my boys work. Ive decided he is only going to be ridden 3 times a week, one day we do ground work and respect training in the round pen (backing up, change of direction ect)

If i was to incorporate the Equi ami i wouldn't be just lunging him in fast circles, i would most likely do a lot of walk using the entire arena or field, a few circles ect, the odd pole on the ground to maneuver.

Does this trap the horse? does it actually encourage them to work softly and does it help develop the correct muscles?

does anyone have any videos of it that arnt advertising? (i can never tell if the ones you see on youtube are from reps)
 

Littlebear

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I think of all the aids you can use to lunge with this is one of the better options, its not dissimilar to a pessoa expect that it has a joint in the middle that stops the front end being pulled by the hock action.
 

Wheels

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If you are doing lunging in straight lines, squares, over poles, hexagonal shapes and a few circles and you choose the right amount of pace and energy then you will not need the equiami

All pics I've seen of it being used show an overbent and / or shuffly steps so I would avoid it personally
 

Goldenstar

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Much much less damaging than a Pessoa .
If you want to use some like that it’s a better choice .
However if you what to buy something I would take a look at an an equicore
 

PapaverFollis

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If I feel I need to use something for lunging I use a Chambon paired with a tail bandage round the bum. I generally long line and find I don't feel the need for an auxiliary aid when doing so. But have used a Chambon to good effect in the past (Granny the giraffe!)
 
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I used equiami on my old TB, helped with muscle development and way of going definitely, without over-bending. But he actually loved lungeing, too. (He was an odd-ball). Never used the riding aid so can't speak for it.
 

tallyho!

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Why don't you spend the winter actually learning an art? Instead of lunging your horse in some sort of contraption round and round and round - try some books on proper classical lungeing - try Klaus Schoneich for a starter for ten. Then get a decent one on in-hand work on the bridle - plenty to shop for on Amazon.

Forget gadgets people!! Proper lungeing is WAY more fun, more rewarding and in fact is a true workout for you and the horse! :)
 

Melody Grey

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Not a user of gadgets myself (never found a need for them), but do sometimes use elasticated side reins loosely between the legs for a general suggestion of ‘long and low’ which I finds works well
Most of the time.
 

sbloom

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Better than the Pessoa but nowhere near as good as full on in hand work such as straightnesstraining.com or the Manolo Mendez DVDs. Restricting the head down or in really isn't needed and generally does not generate the right connections across the body. Gillian Higgins stuff on anatomy and biomechanics is useful here.
 

Goldenstar

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Better than the Pessoa but nowhere near as good as full on in hand work such as straightnesstraining.com or the Manolo Mendez DVDs. Restricting the head down or in really isn't needed and generally does not generate the right connections across the body. Gillian Higgins stuff on anatomy and biomechanics is useful here.
I have lost count of how many times I have tried to explain to vets that you don’t need to use a Pessoa or an Equi ami to get the result you need to develop a horse .
 

tallyho!

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It’s quite important for the anatomy of a horse in motion to be able not to just stretch down, but also out.

That allows the nuchal ligament to work properly... if the throatlatch is too narrow the hyoid cannot be free and everyone knows that the hind legs step under much better when there is freedom in the muscles that attach to it - they are bizarrely all connected to the pelvis.

ALL horses I see that have been trained using a gadget that impinges the hyoid (bone and it’s associated attachments) never step under well. I can always tell when a horse has been trained with one.

You lose very much all lateral swing out of the rib cage too, which adds to the problem.

Some may see a nice “round horse” when trained with devices but I’m afraid once you see the problem, you never unsee “the gadget hunch”.
 

sbloom

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It’s quite important for the anatomy of a horse in motion to be able not to just stretch down, but also out.

That allows the nuchal ligament to work properly... if the throatlatch is too narrow the hyoid cannot be free and everyone knows that the hind legs step under much better when there is freedom in the muscles that attach to it - they are bizarrely all connected to the pelvis.

ALL horses I see that have been trained using a gadget that impinges the hyoid (bone and it’s associated attachments) never step under well. I can always tell when a horse has been trained with one.

You lose very much all lateral swing out of the rib cage too, which adds to the problem.

Some may see a nice “round horse” when trained with devices but I’m afraid once you see the problem, you never unsee “the gadget hunch”.
This. We have lost our "eye", we don't know what is correct musculature any more.
 

Goldenstar

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I can always tell when I am riding a Pessoa horse you feel it in hand and in the fixed way the muscles work .
I can see the logic in the equicore systems but it is fundamentally different that should be used as a physio lead tool .
The use of resistance bands is well understood in human athletic development and has a roll in horses .
The equicore also does not act on the front of the horse which lets the neck stretch out naturally .
Not all horse can stretch with the nose out naturally from the start with many it’s training goal to develop the horse so he can do this .
Development of the horses core takes time to do and time to learn how to do
 

ycbm

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One of the best orthopedic vets in this area found C6 changes in the neck of a friend's young horse, and in the course of the diagnosis said they believed if they xrayed them they would find C6 changes in 50% of them. They attributed this to training in draw reins, but made no connection with Pessoa use. Pessoa use seems to me to be more common these days than draw reins and those vets recommend it to everyone and specify it for most rehabs.

You couldn't pay me to put a horse in any device that connects its mouth directly to its hind legs.

.
 

sbloom

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One of the best orthopedic vets in this area found C6 changes in the neck of a friend's young horse, and in the course of the diagnosis said they believed if they xrayed them they would find C6 changes in 50% of them. They attributed this to training in draw reins, but made no connection with Pessoa use. Pessoa use seems to me to be more common these days than draw reins and those vets recommend it to everyone and specify it for most rehabs.

You couldn't pay me to put a horse in any device that connects its mouth directly to its hind legs.

.
Agreed yet so many vets and physios recommend them for rehab, a classically, biomechanically correct in hand programme would be the only way to go in my opinion. All horses would benefit from this, used intensively after a break in work, or weekly as part of the overall work schedule, and used more often for heavy riders (including those who are relatively heavy for their saddle on short backed horses).
 

Goldenstar

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You can use draw reins to great effect if you are an educated rider who knows want you are trying to achieve .
Draw reins can be damaging but their use can be helpful .
The Pessoa which is being used for something it was designed for is IMO always damaging and teaches the horse nothing useful .
The Pessoa was developed to use in canter and canter alone .
 

Horsekaren

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Didnt hate it, I did walk him around in it outside of the pen then thought id do a few mins of trot. i felt like the meanest person ever when i put it on him, felt like i was tying him up. But he actually seamed really happy in it once he got used to the ropes. He was happily going forward and listening, stretching ect.

Not something i plan on doing often but just thought it seemed ok for a play with every couple of weeks or so.

Am i using it right? it was a lot loser at the start :) it didnt go tighter than where it was there. He seems to be tracking up better (not completely) but we know he is weak behind at the moment but looks like he is really giving a good effort? I know he could be a bit more forward but seems to be a huge improvement on the last time i lunged (months ago)

He didn't fall in or out and looked pretty balanced.

Would this help his topline? do we think he is already looking stronger behind? i do! It seems you cant underestimate a great instructor and simply walking. We school for 30 mins at walk, yeild, shoulder in, turn on the forhand, halting alot! finnished with maybe 2 mins or trot on each rein and to me he is starting to look better than he ever has! body/ expression and attitude :)

 

Horsekaren

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When you say balanced... what do you actually mean?
I might be using the wrong word but he isn’t falling in and out, he didn’t drop shoulders in or out and when he goes to spring onto his forehand to drag himself along it looks like it just caught him? Maybe I’m wrong

He looks like he has a kind of swing behind?
Just curious really, if it doesn’t look like it’s doing any good I won’t both :)

I like the movement of his Hinds when he comes back to walk, he really steps under, a few months a go that would of been a walk in front and a short choppy jog behind :/
 

tallyho!

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I think if you really wanted to develop him the correct way as you said in your OP, you would definitely be better off with in-hand or lungeing for correct movement. Have a look at Klaus Schoneich book on correct movement in horses.

From that book you will be able to see why such a gadget is unable to promote correct moving postures. They seem a good idea at first but trust me on this, very little good can come from forcing a horse to move like this repeatedly. There will never be any lift, any engagement because it just isn't possible in that position. This is why in all classical dressage it is considered rollkur.
 

Nudibranch

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Have you considered why you are posting? I don't agree with your assessment of how he is moving. But I guess you're not looking for alternative ideas so can't really add anything.
The posters above are correct imo.
 

Horsekaren

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I think if you really wanted to develop him the correct way as you said in your OP, you would definitely be better off with in-hand or lungeing for correct movement. Have a look at Klaus Schoneich book on correct movement in horses.

From that book you will be able to see why such a gadget is unable to promote correct moving postures. They seem a good idea at first but trust me on this, very little good can come from forcing a horse to move like this repeatedly. There will never be any lift, any engagement because it just isn't possible in that position. This is why in all classical dressage it is considered rollkur.

Interesting, so this is essentially just encouraging him to go with his head down whether he is stretching or just being held awkwardly low. Its hard to see (for me anyway when you read so much about long and low being great for them)
I want him to lift and be as uphill as he can, i was worried this might be doing the opposite. I've only used it once as was unsure.
What confuses me is why there are so many gadgets out there when they are all detrimental to the horse ... It annoys me.

I would love be able to lunge him correctly without anything but i really get confused. I push him forward and he will stretch but he wont be tracking up and will be quiet a steady eddy in his trot.

I have had a look into straightness training so i may dabble with that :)
 

sbloom

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It's not even about that, biomechanics is a massive and complicated topic, and even if you get what looks to be uphill work it will be compromised. He will be uphill over time as you do the correct work to build every part of his body, but especially the thoracic sling, which gadgets like this compromise.

I would try the straightness training but really read the theory side of it, watch people like Klaus Schoneich, he too has a theory section in his book and that he presents at his clinics, and then maybe some biomech lectures like by Horses Inside Out. It's the how and why, not just the "what", in terms of what to do.

I was once taught to lunge correctly (basic lunging, I thought I knew what I was doing, I didn't!) and even then it took twice weekly for four weeks until we had stretch and rhythm, that was with no gadgets at all.
 
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