Equine Behaviourist urgently required in Cheshire

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angel01

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Hi

Does anyone know of a really good relieable equine behaviourist in the cheshire area.

I have a 16.1hh TB ex racehorse previous owner got him straight from the track and had him for 3 yrs in that time she had done show jumping, Dressage, and cross country.

He is a very lively fizzy excitable strong horse but can be lovely too more so when he is in his stable.

I have problems tying up freaks out and breaks the lead rope.

Hates the hosepipe so washing his feet or running water over a wound can be very dangerous.

He will just about stand for you to get on him when you want to ride.

Almost nearly had me today I was so scared.

EG. was trying to hose his neck which has a bite on it from another horse, mares in season shananagons. well he did,nt want me to to it, had to get 2 other people to help me out one trying to hold him me trying to hose his neck and another was trying to k eep him calm well OMG he did not like it and reared up so high thought he was going to come crashing down on me, ive never been so scared like this since ive had him 8 months ago,

I feel that he has never settled down since coming from his previous yard, the thing is though he is such a dream when he is in his stable its when he gets outside his true colours come out,,,,he is ok turning out and coming in I just dont know why what i,m getting very frustrated and very upset

If anyone can help please ill be waiting for your response

Thankyou
 
I don;t know of any behaviourists but I would have thought that NOT doing the things that really freak him out would help a bit! Can you not tie him up in his stable rather than outside? Also - to clean this wound why don't you try bathing it with warm water and cotton wool with some hibiscrub. I think that the answer for this horse is not to challenge him by making him do things which upset him but rather to do things in a gentle way in places in which he feels safe - for instance 3 people and a hose pipe would upset a lot of horses! Take a step or two back and try and see things from his perspective - I'm sure it will help a bit.
 
Did your hourse have these issues with the previous owner or have they developed and got worse with you? I'm not convinced it is a behaviourist you want, more a new approach with handling him.
 
he sounds like my lad unfortunately. im mad about my horse, but if he even starts to raise the head you've lost him. He used to constantly rear when i got him but gradually you get to read the signs, and change your tactics to get an approach that works. you have to work around stuff as the other poster said, and realise that there's some thing you just can't do straight out. my lad has gotten a lot better with time and a lot of it is trust in you, and trust in your relationship.

If he starts to raise the head above a certain level i take a step back, distract and calm him and think of another approach that would work. he doesn't act up out of badness, its genuinely when he is out of his comfort level. it used to occur a couple of times a day but now its stopped and we can work around it. There is always a way to work around whatever situation you are in. my lad hated being tied so i had to stand with a lunge rope through the tie ring and gradually get him used to it, and get him enjoying standing still by putting a haynet or feed there.

you can work around these problems, dont lose heart. its not his true colours, its his coping mechanism for when he can't handle situations.
 
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Sorry, I don't know of anyone but I agree with other posters about working through things steadily with him. Perhaps just one person work with him so as a relationship and trust can be built, he will feel less pressured and therefore he can be more relaxed. Start small instead of overwhelming him with the big things. Perhaps use a spray bottle on him before working up to a hose or something? And obviously work this up from his hearing the noise until its on him, using different settings etc to just gradually win him round. Just short sessions are probably necessary with him as he probably feels so overwhelmed and unsettled its difficult for him to take anything in. I agree with putting the lead rope through the tie ring and building him up from there too. Just little steps and short sessions so as it can all sink in much faster, all in a relaxed way and allow him personal space and room to get away, watch for any warning signs. You'll get there with him. :)
 
charmeroo said:
I don;t know of any behaviourists but I would have thought that NOT doing the things that really freak him out would help a bit! Can you not tie him up in his stable rather than outside? Also - to clean this wound why don't you try bathing it with warm water and cotton wool with some hibiscrub. I think that the answer for this horse is not to challenge him by making him do things which upset him but rather to do things in a gentle way in places in which he feels safe - for instance 3 people and a hose pipe would upset a lot of horses! Take a step or two back and try and see things from his perspective - I'm sure it will help a bit.
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Hi

I did use hibbi scrub in the stable after hosing it down, I had to hose it down with COLD water because the wound had swelling and felt heated,
 
Different kettle of fish but my youngster hates the hosepipe-so I just don't use one. For wounds I fill up a bucket and hold soaked sponges against her. For feet I use a bucket and then a cup to pour water. For baths, bucket and sponge/special brush that holds shampoo and water in it.

She also hates being tied up and we are lucky that she doesn't need to ever be, but I would like her to learn so ive started tying her for nice things like feeding, and not bothering when its something she'll stress out at.

Rather than wasting money, I think you will improve him loads by just working through things slowly and finding alternatives if he will go sky high. Xxx
 
before going down the behavourist route have you a good freind who may help you out on these issues??just someone being there not even doing anything but standing chatting to you can really help --strange but true

it sounds as if he needs you to be the strong one for him

gradually introducing these things slowly slowly approach in a quiet calm enviroment so you and him can connect with each other and he can learn that everthing you want him to accept is not going to harm him

it will take time but it will also be worth it in the end

i have found that most do eventually make very honest horses in time but you really have to know when he's about to react to something and quickly take a differant approach

i do find it quite strange about the hosepipe though as most racing yard swill down after exercise with them --so maybe something in the past as created this
speak with the last owner to see if she can shed some light on the issue she maybe able to help
 
I agree slowing right down and working slowly is a good plan.
Not strictly behaviourists but have a look at this list for help. http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/content/view/47/116/

Having someone experienced and independent is often a great way to get support and see things you might be missing as well as forming a plan of how to proceed. We spend money on riding lessons, dentists, chiros etc. why not on handling? We all have something new to learn imo. What's the point of struggling on when you really want to help a horse and find a way to do that.
 
Caroline Booth is a good horse person in Nantwich who does call outs. PM me if you would like her contact details.
 
I had a horse that hated the hose pipe. She would rear and kick out.

I never hosed her! I used a bucket and sponge, was careful to not flick water around and she was fine.

If it was me I would not have put him in that position. Cornering him with 2 people holding him down and forcing him to endure something he's told you he doesn't like is asking for trouble and I dont blame him for that reaction! Why couldn't you tie him up in his stable where he's happy and bathed it gently with cotton wool. Poor boy. Forcing a horse through it's issues is not the way, you have to work with them. Sounds like your the one with the problem not the horse. Sorry to be harsh but at the end of the day it's common sense?!
 
Op, have a google of advance and retreat, and try applying that to the hosepipe situation. You may well get better results starting small ie a short length unconnected, then long unconnected then a trickle.

With the tying up scenario try threading the rope through the RING and NOT tying it, you can hold the other end to start to work incrementally until it is safe to tie to twine again.

Keep safety first and be quick to reward a try in the right direction. If it escalates to rearing you are getting into an adrenaline fuelled battle, and horses dont learn half as well that way, so do your best to keep both of you calm.
 
I feel that you have become scared of the horse and he knows it, stable manners are good, he is relaxed. Do you tack him up when tied up in his stable, this is a routine he would know about.
Use a bucket and sponge to wipe over his eyes, etc before and after exercise. when he is quiet, but I would leave the hosing for a while, use a bucket and sponge him down every day, esp in sweaty places. don't make a big fuss, just make sure you "have the last word"
If you have to cold hose try sedalin, it should not occur too often.
 
You don't need a behaviorist, just an experienced hand to help you deal with your sensetive horse. Changing your management will make all the difference. Don't hose him and don't tie him up and already you've solved half your problems. Many racehorses are never taught to stand ny a mounting block so you just need to use time and patience to solve that particular issues.
 
I have to agree with advice given re not doing things that upset him. If he really hates the hosepipe use an ice pack or cold sponge as suggested. My wb won't tie up so I don't do it outside his stable.
If you are nervous of him doing these things he is probably picking signals up from you. As he sounds as if he is a nervy fella anyway it certainly won't be helping.
Slow and sure is always the best way. Good luck with him.
 
Ask an experienced person to help you on.. use a mounting block, and to help you walk away from the block.
I think you should take a few lessons, preferably three days in a row, your instructor will help you with him if you ask, and after three lessons you can discuss progress.
When he was in racing he had a strict regime, some horses need this, so no petting or treats, just make it clear what is required and use a tone of voice that is firm but kind, no baby talk lol.
You could try him on a magnesium calmer for thirty days, it usually takes ten days to kick in and is expensive, but what the heck, you have an expensive hobby.
 
firewell said:
I had a horse that hated the hose pipe. She would rear and kick out.

I never hosed her! I used a bucket and sponge, was careful to not flick water around and she was fine.

If it was me I would not have put him in that position. Cornering him with 2 people holding him down and forcing him to endure something he's told you he doesn't like is asking for trouble and I dont blame him for that reaction! Why couldn't you tie him up in his stable where he's happy and bathed it gently with cotton wool. Poor boy. Forcing a horse through it's issues is not the way, you have to work with them. Sounds like your the one with the problem not the horse. Sorry to be harsh but at the end of the day it's common sense?!
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Hi

I must be then he is my first horse and i did have a very experienced person with me who also has an ex racer, the problem was that all the other 29 horses had been turned out and he was being that way because he wanted to get out to the mares which he is mounting at this time,,, you really need to have been there that day to see why he did what he did,,,

but ta for the advice
 
Hi

Just wanted to say a very big thankyou to all that have replied so far.

I do appreciate what you are all saying and suggesting.

the is my first proper owned horse have always only ever loaned, my last loan horse was an ex race horse but alot older so movement was slower than him obviously because he is alot younger.

I am confident around him but i do freak out when he does things like rearing, doing a 360 while ive got hold of him ( still recovering from pulled ligaments in my arm) from him doing that. running off before ive taken the head coller off, all this I would call naughty and no respect in my opinion.

Ive loaned different breeds of horses and like Tb the best, i could of bought a cob, ( a plodder ) id of been bored after a few weeks so i bought one that I could work with.

I went to veiw him 3 times before i made this decision to buy him and i TELL you he was a completly different horse but then the previous owner did everything with him in the stable, so I am trying my best for him to overcome his fear of being outside like other normal horses do.

At the end of the day we both have to overcome our fears riding him is a dream he is always good never does anything wrong, its just standing outside is the worst problem

so thankyou to you all xxxx
 
Quick suggestion to your last post!! If he's a bit naughty on the ground - always lead him in a headpiece and bit with a newmarket coupling to the bit (or a lead rope through both rings on the bit)! This will give you loads more control on the ground and stop him pulling you about!
 
You just need patience. Nobody is going to cure your horse overnight, no matter who you give money to.

Try and work out exactly what it is that spooks him. It might be something about your yard that he specifically doesnt like, maybe something rattles or something drips on him? Take it slow, stop trying to force him to do anything and I am sure you will manage fine in the end. xxx
 
flamehead said:
You just need patience. Nobody is going to cure your horse overnight, no matter who you give money to.
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Of course not, the 'work' is always for the owner to do. However, having an independent, experienced person to the yard to see him is ime a huge help especially in how to approach the difficulties in the present situation.

Getting advice from those around you can be a big problem as it's often conflicting and contradictory and you can end up just confused trying to do all you've been advised to do...
 
horses can change a huge amount in personality going between new yards and new owners. Different herds, different feeds, turnout, routine can all unsettle a horse.

I second the other posters advice about who to take advice off on your yard. When I was going through the horrors when my lad first arrived, i had a couple of experienced people who basically told me i shouldn't pander to him, i should be more forceful and i shouldn't let him 'win' a scenario. I can understand what they mean on the one hand, as thats the approach that would have worked with my older horse.

My exracer now is a completely different kettle of fish, was more sensitive, not a bad bone in his body though. If he is acting freaked out its because something is genuinely scaring him. If a horse rears, i believe he always has rearing in him as a default somewhere. So its important to be confident to deal with rears.

You get used to seeing them coming a mile off when you know the horse. he will never just rear immediately, there will always be warning signs where hes giving a warning. Once you can read them and deflect the rear you will get over the problem. the chances are he will settle once he gets into a routine and gets to trust you.
 
paddi22 said:
horses can change a huge amount in personality going between new yards and new owners. Different herds, different feeds, turnout, routine can all unsettle a horse.

I second the other posters advice about who to take advice off on your yard. When I was going through the horrors when my lad first arrived, i had a couple of experienced people who basically told me i shouldn't pander to him, i should be more forceful and i shouldn't let him 'win' a scenario. I can understand what they mean on the one hand, as thats the approach that would have worked with my older horse.

My exracer now is a completely different kettle of fish, was more sensitive, not a bad bone in his body though. If he is acting freaked out its because something is genuinely scaring him. If a horse rears, i believe he always has rearing in him as a default somewhere. So its important to be confident to deal with rears.

You get used to seeing them coming a mile off when you know the horse. he will never just rear immediately, there will always be warning signs where hes giving a warning. Once you can read them and deflect the rear you will get over the problem. the chances are he will settle once he gets into a routine and gets to trust you.
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HI

I think the reason why he reared was because he was moving around alot while trying to hose the wound in is neck another member on the yard very very experienced came over to help and she suggested putting the lead rope around his nose and then through his head coller personally i knew straight away he would not like this, you could tell he was scared and i think thats why he reared up to try and get away from the pressure being put on by the lead rope,,, this owner has a different aproach to mine, i am patient and maybe too soft with him and need to toughen up with him,,, she is very dominant and will give a smack where it is necessary i personally dont like that aproach,,, i am soo confused everyone has different opinions to throw at you itrs difficult to find which is the best thing to do
 
go with your gut, you know what's best for your horse. it's difficult i know, when other people are stepping in to help you, especially if you feel they are more experienced or if you feel vulnerable.

i don't think you can ever be too patient or soft with a scared horse - being scared is different to being bolshy (the issue in the field with the headcollar does sound like naughtiness tho).. you know he is good in the stable, and when he is ridden, so isolate what issues he has and try a few different approachs. with my lad, if his head went up and he got a certain look in his eye i'd take a step back and approach a different way.

mine went through a stage where he wouldn't go back into a stable. people suggested pushing him and slapping him from behind but i honestly know he would have reacted badly to that. instead id walk forward a step, he'd throw the head, id stop calm him down, wait a few mins and try another step forward. after a few tries the problem disappeared.

if anyone gives you grief or tries to steamroll you into taking their advice just calmly say 'we tried that approach and it didn't work, im doing it this way now as it seems to work instead'.

find someone experienced on the yard who understands your approach and use them to help you as much as possible.
 
angel01 said:
HI

I think the reason why he reared was because he was moving around alot while trying to hose the wound in is neck another member on the yard very very experienced came over to help and she suggested putting the lead rope around his nose and then through his head coller personally i knew straight away he would not like this, you could tell he was scared and i think thats why he reared up to try and get away from the pressure being put on by the lead rope,,, this owner has a different aproach to mine, i am patient and maybe too soft with him and need to toughen up with him,,, she is very dominant and will give a smack where it is necessary i personally dont like that aproach,,, i am soo confused everyone has different opinions to throw at you itrs difficult to find which is the best thing to do
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The going in all guns blazing approach seldom works - let alone with a highly strung little horse like yours.

Good luck with him - do it your way, the quiet way.

And remember - if he's relatively new to you that will add ten fold to his stress levels.
 
What charmeroo said.

I've handled very clever, nervy horses. Would totally agree that the situations in your original post are avoidable.

If horse doesn't like hose then you can always use sponge and bucket or similar.

if horse doesn't like being tied then don't do it. Varying your routine a little can go from having a horse who gets scared/bored before every time you ride to one who looks forward to your routine.

Definitely get an instructor. They don't have to be anything fancy, I had a BHS instructor who was great with a highly strung one, but they do have to be in-tune with both you and horse. If horse doesn't look relaxed and happy by the end of the session don't have them back. And never be afraid to say 'no' to ppl like the lady on your yard (even if they are your professional) who do things that scare and upset your horse.

Yes, your horse is scaring you. But he doesn't mean to, he is doing it because he is scared. He needs you to be brave enough to admit you need help (like you have) and then choose the right calm, confident way of dealing with him. He doesn't sound nasty at all. He just needs your help.

Good luck.
 
I have a very difficult TB mare that I bred. She has always been handled correctly but does have a mind of her own. I find that you cannot bully her into anything. I put the rope over nose once to lead out and she threw herself on the floor in temper:D She is getting better with age-20yrs this June :)
 
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