Equine Brain Tumours - any experience??

JanetGeorge

JanetGeorge

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www.horseandhound.co.uk
I have a 3 year old whose breeding says he should be an angel - mother and father are well known and I have plenty of progeny of both. He became nervous - for no reason - as a yearling ad has got steadily worse. We brought him in to work quietly on him.

8 weeks ago, he gave me the worse kick I've experienced in a life time - double barrelled me as I was leaving the stable after a quiet 15 minutes. Got both my legs! Then he seemed to be improving a little - would be caught, led around etc. But yesterday, for NO reason, he got very aggressive with an experienced lass who was working with him. Tried to swing and kick her several times, reared and struck out - all for no reason.

I am of the view he has a brain tumour - it's the ONLY thing that might explain intermittent agressive behaviour - and I plan to have him PTS on Wednesday (before he kills someone!!)

But I feel SO guilty (God knows for what!) I need to hear from people who have had a horse with brain tumour - and some reassurance that his intermittently violent behaviour is 'normal' for a brain tumour. In a lifetime with horses I have NEVER come across this - nasty agressive horses, yes - I knew a racehorse like that but it was explained by his breeding - and he was ALWAYS evil. This chap is sweet when he's not trying to kill you!!
 
Yes, when I was 18 a friend had a mad horse. He was great and sweet, then he would be violent. He attacked a bollard, kicked his stable wall so hard he broke his pedal bone, and was generally a hooligan. Or, he was not. Or, he was.

The vet took blood samples that suggested he may be a rig, but they then did a GA operation, made 3 incisions, searched all over, no undescended testicle.

The horse was eventually PTS, and I believe it was a brain tumour that caused the issue, and because of the tumour testosterone was being produced by another gland. It was not 100% definitive, but when all was said and done the horse was dangerous and could not have been happy.

I am sad for your situation, I know you are experienced so it is unlikely to be handling that is an issue, and I think you are doing the right thing.
 
regardless of the cause I would PTS, I have known both a horse and a bull who were PTS and on postmortem brain tumours were found.

The horse was 19yrs and his behaviour became unpredictable, he had always been a steady and calm horse, he started bolting (he was not ever ridden in the years I knew him), biting and was seen attacking inanimate objects as well as people. One of his eyes also started to bulge-the owners did not seek veterinary help and euthanise till he had a siezure though.
The bull (HiTech) the tallest hereford in the UK at the time was very very aggressive and unpredictable, he used to rock the JCB when the hay was being put out in the field if he was of the mind too, he was on loan to the farm we lived on and my (then) husband always used to come home with tales if HiTechs outbursts, the damage caused and the close shaves they had with him, he did not stay long and went to another farm where he severely injured a worker and he was PTS, post mortem again showed brain tumour. his eyes were not right when he arrived with us and by the time he left they were really pronounced and bulging.
 
Many, many years ago I used to ride a horse who, whilst not aggressive was very nervous and a real bolter.She would take off without warning and not stop until she ran in to something. I stopped sharing her as it was causing me to loose confidence. The owner sold her on cheaply and a few years later when I got my own horse it turned out that one of the girls who ran the yard I went too was the girl who'd bought her. She bolted so badly with this girl on one occasions that she actually 'jumped' a car. I think 'jump' in this case means scrambled over the bonnet, but point is even a car didn't stop her.

Result, mare was PTS and discovered to have a brain tumour.

Another case was a gorgeous youngster who was fine until someone tried to sit on him, then he'd throw himself to the ground. He was diagnosed with a brain tumour too.
 
Yes,a friend I knew had a hunting horse that was 8-9 years old,it had been fine up til then and all of a sudden it started doing random strange things- was happily grazing in field and suddenly ran through a fence, sudden violent kicking at stable walls, and broncing/rearing moments out ridden. The equine hospital told her it was probably a brain tumour, and he took his final trip to the kennels.
 
JanetGeorge said:
I have a 3 year old whose breeding says he should be an angel - mother and father are well known and I have plenty of progeny of both. He became nervous - for no reason - as a yearling ad has got steadily worse. We brought him in to work quietly on him.

8 weeks ago, he gave me the worse kick I've experienced in a life time - double barrelled me as I was leaving the stable after a quiet 15 minutes. Got both my legs! Then he seemed to be improving a little - would be caught, led around etc. But yesterday, for NO reason, he got very aggressive with an experienced lass who was working with him. Tried to swing and kick her several times, reared and struck out - all for no reason.

I am of the view he has a brain tumour - it's the ONLY thing that might explain intermittent agressive behaviour - and I plan to have him PTS on Wednesday (before he kills someone!!)

But I feel SO guilty (God knows for what!) I need to hear from people who have had a horse with brain tumour - and some reassurance that his intermittently violent behaviour is 'normal' for a brain tumour. In a lifetime with horses I have NEVER come across this - nasty agressive horses, yes - I knew a racehorse like that but it was explained by his breeding - and he was ALWAYS evil. This chap is sweet when he's not trying to kill you!!
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So sad, just a baby, but I am sure you are doing the right thing. Someone I knew spent £17K on a four year old mare with some dressage points and she was dead within the year. She suffered from intermittant extreme behaviour (bolting, even when led). The vet didn't believe it could be so bad and was reluctant to PTS, until one day she did it in his presence and he went straight back to the car for his gun. Brain tumour have always been considered to be very rare, not withstanding Cushings cases of course, but I can't help but feel that they are occurring more frequently. Perhaps there is an environmental factor involved. Like the OP I knew one horse who could be unpredictable and bit someone very badly on one occasion but his owner, a very experienced horseman and showjumper said he was out of bad blood. Another one, a 4 year old was the worst kicker I've ever come across but no-one knew anything of his history.

OP, don't feel guilty. You would feel infinitely worse if he kicked and ruined the life of someone handling him. I'm sure you have tried everything. Sometimes we just can't fix things as we would like.
 
I have no experience of brain tumours but do know that you are a very experienced owner/ breeder and if your gut instinct says this horse has one, his behaviour certainly suggests something is seriously wrong and his future is in doubt anyway, then you are right to pts before he does some real harm to someone.

You will feel guilty it is natural to do so when you are taking the life of any animal, you need to trust your instincts and know that whatever is making this poor horse behave in this way means he is in pain and you are ended the stress and trauma he must be suffering, look after yourself and all your others who still need you.
 
I knew a young irish horse once who displayed similar symptoms but the owner sold it on, 6 weeks later it ran into a stone wall and killed itself. Brain tumour found at post mortem. I honestly think you are doing the right thing. And so sorry to hear of your own health problem.
 
A friend of mine had a mare that used to rear and go over backwards, get back up repeat and repeat to point where she left her on hack on the field doing it and she went back later to get her. She was an very expensive mare in her day too, when she got vet they found a brain tumour and she was PTS. Wonder if some are too well bred?

Your doing the right thing your horse could seriously injure or even kill you or someone. In my opinion if an animal is showing signs of agression then it must be suffering x
 
A friend bred one always a bit unpredictable to handle it became a nightmare when backed it would behave normally and then flip.
One day it had a turn on the road flipped backwards and fell over a hedge and drop to a field some distance below my friend although hurt was lucky not to be killed .
They had him PTS and a large tumour was found .
Another had a very unpredictable homebred it would suddenly behave in a loopy way it was a form of floating cataract that meant the horse was suddenly experiencing disturbances in vision .
You are doing the right thing .
Very sad poor boy and poor you .
 
Yes, sadly. We bought a virtually unhandled 2yo WBx. He was an angel, really the perfect gentleman for two years. He was backed in the field, loose, and didn't bat an eyelid. You couldn't wish to meet a batter mannered, more polite boy. Then he started to do some 'odd' things, He had to wear a headcollar in the field or he wouldn't leave the gate, when catching him you had one chance to clip the leadrope on without touching the headcollar, or he walked off and you had to start again. Lots of other little things that would be unremarkable in themselves but were starnge when added together.

He was ridden and was wonderful, spook free, go anywhere alone or in company. One day lunging him he went a bit berserk for no apparent reason. Didn't think too much of it, but a couple of weeks later he was trotting quietly and calmly round the school and bucked daughter off.. she got back on and they carried on as if it had never happened. Few months later he did the same, massive buck, no warning, no reason. He had full vet check, went for x-rays and they all admitted 'something' was wrong but couldn't put their finger on it. Some time later I quietly lunged him again and he sort of lost control of all four feet, almost as if he was suddenly lame on all four, this passed in seconds but he started slightly dragging his near hind. We had already decided he was unsafe to ride out and now we decided he was unsafe to ride. This was the stage where our vet said he was certain it was a brain tumour.

He had an episode when he attacked our lovely farrier every time he saw him (previously adored him) and he attacked my daughter one night as she fed him. He has spent the last five years living with his best mate on 12 acres of hilly land in Sussex. If we hadn't had this land he would have been pts. As it is he is ok, looks well and is polite and happy, but will never be ridden again. Any deterioration and he will be pts, much as we all love him. He is still quirky and does some strange things, but nothing dangerous.

Its a sad thing to discover in a young horse and see a life wasted. Ours, like yours JG, was full of potential and such a lovely boy.
 
Is he going to the kennels? I wonder if so if the KH would have a poke about for you, if you would like to know.
Tumour or not you are doing the right thing so don't feel bad.
 
As a teenager I used to ride 3 horses with a friend, the TB was never easy to handle and could take off with the rider on occasion, although you couldn't call it a bolt, she could always be stopped eventually. In our ignorance we just put it down to her breed.
Years later, I met up with the mare and her 2 pony companions again, retired to a field not far away from me. Then I heard that the mare had had to be pts in her 20s and a post-mortem had found a brain-tumour.
I did suspect that a mare I bought as a 4 yr old, who developed severe behaviour difficulties over time had a tumour but actually her problems were caused by food intolerances. Even when she was being fed none of the triggers by us, she was still too unpredictable to be more than a field ornament.
I am sure that you will have considered all possibilities and tbh his behaviour sounds so dangerous that whatever the cause pts is the best solution. I would ask for a quick look by the kenelman, I have always regretted not doing so for another of mine who obviously had a burst tumour somewhere but we weren't sure where - and still aren't!
 
I knew of one that had a tumour on autopsy. The horse wasn't aggressive, but constantly walked in small circles when turned out and wore a track in it's field.
 
Yes, I have known a couple that were found to have brain tumours on post mortem. One was a 2 year old appaloosa filly that was attacking people, other horses and animals in the field. She was extremely aggressive at times, and at others totally normal. The other was a 7 year old dressage horse that I bred that would without warning either collapse or throw himself to the ground, both ridden and in hand. They had different types of brain tumour. Sad, but the best thing is euthanasia.
 
A good friend took on a 3 yr old to back and it was nuts! Very unpredictable (lady is very experienced, been backing and producing for years) She sent it back to the owner who was quite disgruntled, it was PTS soon after and PM was done, it had a brain tumour.
 
Really sorry to read your post - both of your horse's problems and also your own health problems, but I hope your recovery goes well.

Ref your horse, years ago, there was a lovely young mare on the same livery yard as my horse. She was very well bred and doing very well until she started with some very strange and unpredictable behaviour - both ridden and ground work. Would become very aggressive with no warning after being very affectionate. Ridden wise she was going very nicely but with no warning would bolt off, but in strange directions. It was all very worrying and they decided against riding her until they found out what the problem was.

The vet came up and was checking her over and she started to lower her head and although she was still standing she became unresponsive. Then without warning she reared, tried to strike out, got free and bolted. It was so sad - and unfortunately being that the yard was on a working farm she became caught up in some farm machinery which tbh I don't think she could have seen, so the decision was made to PTS immediately. On PM that turned out to be a brain tumour unfortunately, but at least the owner found out what had caused all the problems.

The owner felt in hindsight that she wished she had taken the decision to PTS sooner and not left it so that there was an accident, but these things are always far easier in hindsight.
 
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A friend had a the year old that she showed with good results. But some days it used to throw a complete hissy fit in the ring and some days it won or placed. It never did it except away from home. She had it put down and they found a brain tumour.

From this thread, it sounds as though they are much more common that vets realise.

So glad to hear that you managed to beat your own one JanetGeorge. That must have been very scary.
 
I am feeling really scared by this thread. We recently bought a lovely little mare who is sweet, kind and affectionate and a pleasure to ride. The last two weeks she has been bolting, in-hand and when ridden, we can't even lunge her anymore! She was also mounting our other ponies. She was scanned by the vet and he found a false pregnancy. We hoped she would improve but she is getting worse. We thought it might be seperation anxiety but she bolts even when the other ponies are around. But she doesn't show any aggression and is still a sweetie, no lameness either. She bolts and runs round and round in a panic. We did recently move home and she is now kept at home with our other ponies all of whom have settled and are their usual sweet selves. I was thinking it could be a brain tumour as this mare has suddenly changed, with no warning. Am I overreacting?
 
My old yard owner told us, about once going out in a pony and trap with a very experienced trusted friend, The pony was one of his best, BUT on this particular day he couldn't pull it up, it went straight through red traffic lights nearly killing them all, they got back to the yard and he ran it into a brick wall to stop it! never put it in harness again had the vet out the following week, Brain tumour suspected and pts on the spot.
 
Yes, TGM, he has, thank you. The mounting has stopped since she got a massive hormone injection to kick start her seasons but the bolting is getting worse.
 
How terribly sad, I am sure your judgement is right, doesn't make it any easier though.

Sounds like you are having quite a tough year, sending you a hug :)
 
I used to know a pony who became very unpredictable in her behaviour. She would bolt for no reason both in her field and under saddle; through fences, hedges, across roads etc. She was put the sleep for safety reasons. A post mortem revealed a large brain tumour.
 
I remember and it was over 50 years ago, that a pony in a West End riding school had a suspected brain tumour and it was dealt with effectively, by an increasing level of either cyanide or arsenic in its feed, I forget which, and it worked. Odd, I realise. Any such meds would only be given under strict veterinary supervision, obviously.

Alec.

PS, I'm sorry to read of your troubles Janet. a.
 
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Clodagh said:
Is he going to the kennels? I wonder if so if the KH would have a poke about for you, if you would like to know.
Tumour or not you are doing the right thing so don't feel bad.
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He will go to the kennels but I wouldn't trust those there for an answer. If my vet - who is doing the nasty on him - isn't confident about his ability to find the abcess, then I will take the brain (or the head) to 3 Counties the next day. I am taking a horse anyway for a retained testicle to be removed - so it's not a special trip. And I NEED to know!
And if my vet prefers to use one of the dart guns he uses to sedate lions and the like at the Safari Park, that's fine with me.
 
ycbm said:
So glad to hear that you managed to beat your own one JanetGeorge. That must have been very scary.
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lol, it WAS scarey but the op was a great success and I now feel at LEAST 10 years younger than I did before it. Funny, though, my only follow-up problem is badly swollen feet, ankles and lower leg. THAT was due to some drugs I was on (and stopped 3 weeks ago) but exacerbated by the fact that I ignored doctor's instructions to 'take it easy'. FURTHER complicated by the fact I have developed anaemia - due to the drug I'll be on for at LEAST 6 months - altough I have no symptoms of anaemia other than blood test results!
 
Really feel for you OP. The same happened to my friend - years ago - she had a lovely show pony. Seriously good, and 90% of the time, he was an angel. But then he would just change - no warning - and when it happened he was in danger of serious injury to himself or people round him. The vet witnessed an episode - he ran into a telegraph pole - and PTS. The vet said that what made it different from an 'aggressive' horse was that his sense of self preservation was non-existent during an episode. He would and did hurt himself, and anyone unlucky enough to be in the way. As he was so valuable, a PM was done and a brain tumour found. Very sad, but PTS is the best thing to do.

Wishing you a speedy recovery from your own.
 
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