Equine Brain Tumours - any experience??

BBP

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Mine has just had a head CT as we were concerned about similar. His behaviour had become much more erratic overnight in May. Head shaking, hypersensitive to noise, strange eye reflexes, attacking other horses (very sweet horse), panicking in the field, scary out hacking, miserable to trot and canter in the arena. His test was clear so I'm still looking for the cause without any real idea of where to look. But he has never ever shown aggression to people. I have no doubt you are doing the right thing by yours if he is. But if they don't find a tumour don't go thinking you've done the wrong thing, whatever the cause you can't risk you or your staff.
(I should add that the cause of his aggression to other horses was the death of our old mare, the moment her body was loaded he flew across the field with teeth bared going at any horse who came near, after a few weeks this stopped and he is back to his friendly self)
 
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Clodagh

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He will go to the kennels but I wouldn't trust those there for an answer. If my vet - who is doing the nasty on him - isn't confident about his ability to find the abcess, then I will take the brain (or the head) to 3 Counties the next day. I am taking a horse anyway for a retained testicle to be removed - so it's not a special trip. And I NEED to know!
And if my vet prefers to use one of the dart guns he uses to sedate lions and the like at the Safari Park, that's fine with me.

I would have to know too, but LOL at you maybe taking his head to Three Counties. A few years ago I took 2 forelegs to an equine surgeon to look at. You have to hope you don't get car trouble.
Also, and I am sorry I didn't say the first time, I am glad you are on the mend.
 
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I have known a couple with brain tumours. The first was a perfectly normal horse the one day he stood resting his head against the wall in the morning, by afternoon he was gently banging his head off of the wall, be evening he had started to properly hit his head. He went down to the Vet school and was pts on arrival. A pm showed a small tumour but it would have got worse. All in less than 24 hours from being normal to dead.

Another colicked on the Friday, given drugs, fine on Saturday so got ridden out. Saturday afternoon a week bit colicky again so given some buscopan. Same again on sunday. Monday perfectly fine and totally normal. Tuesday looked like a serious colic. He would lean against the wall and then just slide down it and slump to the ground. He struggled to get up. Over the next hour and half he did it 3 more times - vet was there the whole time checking on him whilst doing other things. No drugs made him any better or worse, there was nothing to feel on a rectal sp he was hand walked for 10mins where he gradually became more and more ataxic so he went down go the Vet school. The moment he stepped off of the truck he colapsed in a heap and was pts on the spot. A pm revealed a very large tumour. When you think bck on him he had had random bolting episodes but alwaysbwhen he was ridden a certai n way so for 3months we put it down to quirkyness.

The other one was found in the morning with his head in pieces where he had smashed if off of the walls of his stable. He had almost bust his door in 2 as well. He died before a vet could get to him. He was 100% fine at 9pm feeds and checks and he was found at 7am. A pm was never done but there could not really be any other explanation for a horse to suddenly start smashing his head to pieces on the walls of his box.

Op you are doing the right thing. Even if it isn't a tumour your lad doesn't sound like he will have any quality of life when he is so aggressive.

That was the one thing about all 3 of the above. Not one of them would turn a hair on a human being, they were all so very lovely, sweet horses and didn't bother others.
 

debbielinder

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My old mare was put down due to a brain tumour. She was always a feisty little thing but started being difficult when ridden so we looked into it and thought it was her teeth so the dentist was booked and she was given time off until he could get here. But within a week she started occasionally walking into things,box walking and banging her head on the wall. But one morning I came in and she had cut her face to bits and was literally running round the stable the vet was called and the ambulance was on its way to transport her to leahurst but I made the decision to put her down there and then. However I was told by my vet that when the have brain tumours or similar problems putting them down by injection can cause them to react badly and throw themselves around which unfortunately she did it wasn't nice at all but I'm glad I did it couldn't put her through any more
 

Meandtheboys

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I knew of one that had a tumour on autopsy. The horse wasn't aggressive, but constantly walked in small circles when turned out and wore a track in it's field.

Yes I had a 2yr old that did this - looked like a quad bike had done donuts in the field - vet said 99% certain a tumour, she actually started to self harm herself but had no idea was she was doing - again so young it was heartbreaking but the right decision
 

JanetGeorge

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That was the one thing about all 3 of the above. Not one of them would turn a hair on a human being, they were all so very lovely, sweet horses and didn't bother others.

Brain tumours will have different results depending on exactly where they are. Same with my meningioma (benign tumour just outside the brain). I met two people in hospital who'd also had them removed - and their symptoms were VERY different to mine.
 

angelish

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I've know a couple with brain tumours , both loading problems if gone to work with , one I discussed in a post on here as I was suspicious of its behaviour , both just acted "Odd" neither reacted like a normal horse , the first one was just more difficult than normal and didn't react how they should (it's difficult to explain) I wasn't as experienced then and couldn't figure it out and thought it was something I hadn't worked through properly with the horse , there was no aggression from him though , he started bolting and got more and more unpredictable to ride and was eventually pts

The other more resent one was a lovely little mare , so sweet and kind to meet her , the kind you would trust with your granny out hunting she seemed to have a really lovely temperament
I was called as she wouldn't load , I loaded her but wasn't happy with her , she kept banging her head in the ceiling of the trailer like a mad thing it was really strange behaviour and made me feel uneasy as she also wasn't reacting as she should and seemed to have no self preservation at all , which to me seemed not to tie in with her seemingly sweet temperament , I told the owner to send her back (shed recently bought her for her daughter ) there is no way I'd put a child on her
That's the one I posted about in here and she was eventually found to have a brain tumour and was pts
She wasn't agresive either but was poss pts before she got to that stage

It is also worth checking there liver as I have come across a case of a gelding that had been the most trustworthy kind horse all his life and suddenly quite violently kicked out for no reason and it was linked somehow with liver disease but he was quite an old horse and had other symptoms , standing strange/difficulty peeing etc
 

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Dear Janet
Sorry to hear about your youngster.
I had a lovely TB that I owned from the age of 3. Although he liked to be opinionated at times he was always very easy to catch, ride and handle and kept to himself in the field. I never had any problems with him until at the age of 14 he had a sudden change in behaviour and became very aggressive overnight. He would round up the mares and not allow their owners to catch them. He would charge at little children that were in the field to catch their ponies and rear up at them. He would actively seek out and chase horses and their owners and once he had them cornered he would kick, bite and basically all but try and savage them. He also started galloping full speed into the electric fences and was a danger to himself and everyone else. My vet suspected a brain tumour so I quickly had him PTS before he seriously injured or killed someone.
P.S. vet refused to use a needle to PTS as he said horse might react badly so he was PTS by gun.
 
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ladyt25

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My only concern would be if it was found it wasn't a brain tumour and the behaviour was something treatable instead. An ex work colleague had similar issues with her daughter's piny who suddenly became very aggressive and totally different form the pony they bought. The vet suggested PTS as dangerous but they just couldn't accept this pony had changed so dramatically (they had done all the standard tests associated with mares changing behaviour).

Anyway, I can't remember the actual diagnosis but it turned out it was some chemical deficiency (I want to say magnesium). They started her on a supplement and, within a very short time scale the pony returned to her normal lovely self.

From the sounds of the responses on this post though there seems to be a fair few incidences of brain tumours. Very sad :(
 

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Well - this one has earned himself another week (a least). Third time proves it - and he's only had 2 violent episodes - both of which could be explained by the fact he hasn't had turnout - he's just been led out as we couldn't catch him. Today he was turned out - and was easy to catch and bring in. He DID freak a bit at the heavy machinery working on the manege - but EVERYTHING did!

It WAS my staff who persuaded me to give him another chance - so I've told them THEY are responsible for any injuries he inflicts!
 

JanetGeorge

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If you are giving him another chance, will you have him looked at by vet?

lol, vet isn't THAT keen to go near him. I'll just give him a week and see if he continues t be good to turn out and bring in. If he IS, he'll get more time - but probably no need to subject the vet to terror yet!

The farrier might be first - he needs his hind feet trimming!
 

Illusion100

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I've known of more than I'd like to but only had the misfortune of handling/working with a small handful personally.

I have no idea how I walked away alive. One second they were nice as pie (so to speak, they tended to nap/rear/generally be on the more difficult side) then BOOM, they went into serious attack mode and were downright dangerous, then 'snap' and they went back into whatever they were doing before their episode as if nothing untoward had happened.

Personally I consider these horses too dangerous and unpredictable to PTS via injection, shooting is safest for all involved. Their minds aren't their own at times which makes them lethal, the violent episodes/behaviour are known as 'Red Mist'. They never get better and always get progressively worse.

The last Professional I know of that went into examine a horse with a suspected brain tumour was kicked unconscious in the stable and suffered a compound fracture to her leg, several broken ribs and broken collar bone and shoulder. As strange as this sounds, she was very lucky.
 

Tern

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lol, vet isn't THAT keen to go near him. I'll just give him a week and see if he continues t be good to turn out and bring in. If he IS, he'll get more time - but probably no need to subject the vet to terror yet!

The farrier might be first - he needs his hind feet trimming!

Sorry I can't help re having experience with tumours.

However, if vet needs to come you may want to muzzle and/or hobble with front attatched to back.. just for everyones safety.
 

SusieT

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has the vet seen this horse? checked his eyes? examined him for pain? if he's only three and not getting turned out then I have to say I'd find it odd to not address other issues before pts - horses kick and freak and do stupid things so just because its unusual doesn't mean it's not rectifiable
 

JanetGeorge

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JanetGeorge

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has the vet seen this horse? checked his eyes? examined him for pain? if he's only three and not getting turned out then I have to say I'd find it odd to not address other issues before pts - horses kick and freak and do stupid things so just because its unusual doesn't mean it's not rectifiable

MY horses don't kick and freak. Bloody things are SO friendly they're a ruddy nuisance. BUT - he is being given one more chance. When you're responsible for the lives and safey of other people, sometimes a hard decision MUST be made.
 

fatpiggy

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My only concern would be if it was found it wasn't a brain tumour and the behaviour was something treatable instead. An ex work colleague had similar issues with her daughter's piny who suddenly became very aggressive and totally different form the pony they bought. The vet suggested PTS as dangerous but they just couldn't accept this pony had changed so dramatically (they had done all the standard tests associated with mares changing behaviour).

Anyway, I can't remember the actual diagnosis but it turned out it was some chemical deficiency (I want to say magnesium). They started her on a supplement and, within a very short time scale the pony returned to her normal lovely self.

From the sounds of the responses on this post though there seems to be a fair few incidences of brain tumours. Very sad :(


Unfortunately sometimes we have to make decisions that occasionally do turn out to be wrong. My mare had epilepsy which I know was controlled by her hormones, but she also showed some signs of brain damage. Quite a few people asked me if I would ever have a PM done to find out what was really going on , but I always said no. Ultimately she was PTS due to the complications of old age. Supposing I had found out that I had been pumping her full of anticonvulsants when something else could have easily have been treated? I was lucky as the drugs worked 99% of the time and she led a full and very normal life. Sometimes it is better not to ask - what you don't know, you don't worry about.
 

julie111

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Sorry you're in this position. I had to have a 4 year old mare pts for the same reason a few years ago. She would have frequent episodes of rearing up at you, lashing out, tried jumping over me in the stable (I still don't know how I managed to get out in one piece). The kindest and safest thing is pts x
 

Suelin

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We had one with a brain lesion. It was the saddest thing I ever saw. We tried to get him comfortable enough just to be a field ornament but it turned out to be impossible so we had to PTS in the end. We were heartbroken, he was only 12. He just got too unpredictable and then downright dangerous both to us and himself. Awful because he wouldn't have hurt a fly when he was right.
 

Pigeon

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I am feeling really scared by this thread. We recently bought a lovely little mare who is sweet, kind and affectionate and a pleasure to ride. The last two weeks she has been bolting, in-hand and when ridden, we can't even lunge her anymore! She was also mounting our other ponies. She was scanned by the vet and he found a false pregnancy. We hoped she would improve but she is getting worse. We thought it might be seperation anxiety but she bolts even when the other ponies are around. But she doesn't show any aggression and is still a sweetie, no lameness either. She bolts and runs round and round in a panic. We did recently move home and she is now kept at home with our other ponies all of whom have settled and are their usual sweet selves. I was thinking it could be a brain tumour as this mare has suddenly changed, with no warning. Am I overreacting?

Could it be something wrong with her ovaries? Have you had them scanned?
 
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SusieT

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so in other words no? no vet exam? Jumping straight to a brain tumour is a bit sensationalist tbh when its far more likely to be a sight problem or even just being confined. Every horse is different even when you've dealt with hundreds!
 

JanetGeorge

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so in other words no? no vet exam? Jumping straight to a brain tumour is a bit sensationalist tbh when its far more likely to be a sight problem or even just being confined. Every horse is different even when you've dealt with hundreds!

You were SO right! I wasn't up to date with his handling in the past 8 weeks - I'd spent part of it in hospital - but the night before I was AGONISING and started quizzing the staff. Found out he HADN'T been turned out - just walked in hand - because they thought they'd never catch him. So postponed the putting down and made up a very small grass enclosure for him. He's been MUCH better the last week - still nervous about being caught but gives in quickly to a food bowl. We'll continue to be very careful with him, but in the next few days he'll go to a bigger field!

I felt SO guilty about nearly rushing the gun with him that I bent strongly in Lucy's direction today. Lucy is a 5 year old IDxTB who was going beautifully - then she started giving random EVIL bucks! I sent her to have spine x-rayed after our new physio suggested Kissing Spines MIGHT be present. Sure enough - she's got KS AND arthritis associated with it. The arthritis makes the prognosis relatively poor - but what the hell - I'm throwing EVERYTHING at her - what's £1500 after all. SHE has a funny older sister who I was planning to keep as a brood mare. She turned out to be an equine virgin - the only way you could get NEAR her cervix was to dope her heavily - otherwise she had a closed door just inside! So she's coming back into work! But the oldest brother is a very successful police horse in South Wales - not a problem at all! And several other brothers are just as good! Bloody horses!
 

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Sorry to hear about Lucy but I have to say, if somone had kept my horse in for 8 weeks apart from a bit of in-hand walking, their feet wouldn't have touched! I do hope the decision maker was the who was caught by the horse.
 
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Naughty naughty! It's not fair on youngsters to be kept in! Poor lad! I am glad you have got pretty much to the bottom of things and are giving him another chance to prove himself now you are back in full control! Sorry to hear about your other mare.
 

JanetGeorge

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They had a reason - he was incredibly hard to catch in the stable - they thought they had NO chance in a field! But the enclosure I made for him was teensy - about 10 yards x 50. It's worked so far - I STILL don't understand why he's SO nervous!

I guess when you have as many as I have, you HAVE to have the occasional odd-ball!
 

Pearlsasinger

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They had a reason - he was incredibly hard to catch in the stable - they thought they had NO chance in a field! But the enclosure I made for him was teensy - about 10 yards x 50. It's worked so far - I STILL don't understand why he's SO nervous!

I guess when you have as many as I have, you HAVE to have the occasional odd-ball!

Then he could have stayed out!

If they weren't all different they wouldn't be half so fascinating.
 

JanetGeorge

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Then he could have stayed out!

If they weren't all different they wouldn't be half so fascinating.

They were afraid we'd never catch him again! I have to say, most of mine are VERY similar. In fact the ones by my young stallion are SO close together it's hard telling them apart if they're black/dark brown. He HAS had the odd chestnut which helps. But when I go to the field to get ONE, I have to have my list that says: 2 front socks, a star; or no white! And in the bigger group of mares & foals (5 of them - all mares grey) there are 3 I can't tell apart unless they go to Mum - and they're at an age when they don't do THAT often!

I have to say, though, I've had FAR more than my share of bad luck this year. Losing a gorgeous 5 year old to small colon dystrophy - which NONE of the very experienced vets at the vet hospital had seen - was ghastly!
 
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