Equine Clothing That Closely Resembled Police Uniform

kikadi said:
Hey guys I think this is ridiculous!! Older have managed to increase our own safety through drawing drivers attention. Please sign this e-petition to prevent police being able to prosecute us for wearing these! I need 100,000 signatures so het family and friends signing too :) http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/45785
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Brill idea!! ive shared it on a few pages too :D we can help the POLITE keep being POLITE LOL
what happens once the petition finishes??
 
In case anyone is into reading the law, here is the Police Act 1996 Sec 90.
The way I read it, you have to be intentionally trying to impersonate a police officer. All riders are doing is trying to impersonate someone who doesn't want a car to hit them!
90 Impersonation, etc.E+W.
(1)Any person who with intent to deceive impersonates a member of a police force or special constable, or makes any statement or does any act calculated falsely to suggest that he is such a member or constable, shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or to both. .
(2)Any person who, not being a constable, wears any article of police uniform in circumstances where it gives him an appearance so nearly resembling that of a member of a police force as to be calculated to deceive shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. .
(3)Any person who, not being a member of a police force or special constable, has in his possession any article of police uniform shall, unless he proves that he obtained possession of that article lawfully and has possession of it for a lawful purpose, be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale. .
(4)In this section— .
(a)“article of police uniform” means any article of uniform or any distinctive badge or mark or document of identification usually issued to members of police forces or special constables, or anything having the appearance of such an article, badge, mark or document, .
[F1(aa)“member of a police force” includes a member of the British Transport Police Force,] and .
(b)“special constable” means a special constable appointed for a police area. .

So long as you are not intending to impersonate, carry on wearing your yellow hi-viz. Polite does not say Police, it's a different word.
Happy bedtime reading:p
 
The other thing that Rod the Plod seems to have not considered is that mounted police branches are being closed quicker than one can say and there are not many left. If they all disappear, we will be free to wear this stuff since the very act of being on a horse with it on will automatically mean it can't possibly be a police officer!!

One thing tho- in some rural and semi rural areas the police have set up volunteer equine units where riders are trained and outfitted !! And patrol the countryside and report rural crime and dodgy behaviour. Eg in Hertfordshire there is one which my friends belong to. They are allowed to wear the real thing!! Maybe worth considering suggesting to a local force if you are very keen to wear police stuff and help the community at the same time.

Here's a link to an article about it - look at that lovely police clothing!!
http://www.rsnonline.org.uk/services/mounted-police-combat-rural-crime
 
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I wonder if anyone in the team which has decided that 'polite' clothing, and possibly anything yellow :rolleyes: has put any thought into why there is a market for such clothing, and why riders choose to wear it...

Surely if riders are wearing this clothing to attempt to protect themselves from inconsiderate drivers, this should be looked into? Seems to me to be a knee jerk reaction to something, rather than actually looking for the root of the issue.

These drivers must surely be breaching the highway code by overtaking without appropriate speed or clearance - surely this is more of a problem than riders wearing potentially similar hi-vis safety clothing? Drivers who overtake horses without due care may well be doing the same to other vulnerable road users e.g. cyclists - so they are much more of a real danger (and to the anti-horse section of the public) than a rider wearing a polite tabard!

I think driver education is just not good enough - on the couple of occasions I've been able to talk to someone who has overtaken badly, I have tried to explain why. E.g. lady tried to overtake me on narrow country lane and I knew pigs would be up against the upcoming gate, so asked her to wait for about 25metres until past pigs - cue much huffing and revving as she 'waited' until I explained why, and pointed out that if the horse spooked as she was overtaking, not only would she be injuring my horse, but 550kg of cob sat on her car would most likely cause significant damage...she got my point!
 
EstherYoung said:
I saw my mate with the tack shop last night. Basically what happened is this:
- Copper stops one of her customers wearing a 'polite' tabard, tells customer that there is new police guidance which says that a person wearing such a tabard could be deemed to be breaking the law and she was told to go home and swap it for another tabard. Copper also asked customer where she bought it.
- On finding out that she bought the tabard from my mate, copper then goes round to my mate's tack shop and explains to her that she shouldn't be selling them. He also gives her a copy of the ACPO police guidance (which my friend bought with her last night for me to see). It was all very amicable and the copper was acting in an 'advisory' capacity rather than reading the riot act, but my friend now has a load of tabards that she doesn't know what to do with.
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Hmm, an amicable jobsworth... Shouldn't he spending his time trying to prevent actual crime??
 
Elsiecat said:
I've said it before and will say it again.
I am just as much breaking the 'law' (there isn't any case law in place against POLITE clothing) as anyone going to a fancy dress party as a copper. Often these fancy dress outfits have the actual word 'POLICE' written on them.

As long as me and the ned don't turn up at a football game and try and copy the actual police then I'm not impersonating either.

It's fancy dress on horse back and I won't be getting arrested for it. It wouldn't hold up in court. The CPS wouldn't bother. The Police can't just decide an item of clothing is illegal (or they'd have banned hoodies, balaclavas, burkas where only the eyes are visable etc) these things have to go through parliament and a new law be made.

Going for a hack later with me stuff on :)
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...orse-riders-told-not-to-wear-polite-bibs.html

Quoted in the Telegraph! :D
 
galaxy said:
Statement from the BHS

http://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/p...lothing-that-closely-resembles-police-uniform
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Interesting the different responses from the Polite people and V Bandz.

V Bandz have taken the message on board while Polite seem happy for customers to find themselves in court to clarify guidelines for their product.

Isn't it enough that the police advise against wearing the stuff ? However I haven't seen anyone locally wearing the stuff for ages, so maybe its now a non issue.
 
horserider said:
Interesting the different responses from the Polite people and V Bandz.
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From the Cavalleti website (pinched from another forum):

"You may be aware that the equestrian industry is currently having a bit of a brouhaha over Equisafety's POLITE range of hi vis rider and horse wear.There are letters and comments and magazine articles flying back and forth regarding whether or not this should be worn by riders and whether or not riders are 'impersonating' police officers. There appears to be no definitive answer from anyone: the industry's trade association (BETA); Trading Standards; BETA's legal advisors; the Association of Chief Police Officers - Lead for Mounted Police; Equisafety.... all have commented in one way or another but no-one has stated CLEARLY or categorically that these POLITE products should not be worn. We at Cavaletti have thought long and hard about this. All our personal experience and the comments (albeit anecdotal) we have had from our many customers, is that this is a product that WORKS in slowing down traffic that is passing horses and that can only be a very good thing. So we think that a logical approach and common sense should prevail - riders are not going out with the intention to commit a crime (one of the deciding Police criteria is: You should consider the motive of the defendant where the impersonation involves a threat to the safety of any person, or to property, or is done with a view to financial gain, and then a prosecution should follow. Hardly relevant to a rider out on a hack). Riders are simply trying to protect themselves and their beloved animals, and frankly the safety of all horses on the road is the most important thing to us. Be Safe and Be Seen has long been our mantra and therefore, on this basis, we will continue to provide the POLITE range to customers who want to wear these innovative and effective products."

Eminently sensible response, imo.

V Bandz have taken the message on board while Polite seem happy for customers to find themselves in court to clarify guidelines for their product.
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I'd be astonished if anyone was taken to court over this and believe it would reflect badly on the CPS if they did this. I would gladly donate £100 to a worthy equine charity if this ever happened.

Isn't it enough that the police advise against wearing the stuff ?
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I think need to be more definite one way or another - either state it is prohibited and that people will be prosecuted if they wear POLITE tabards, or say it's okay - not this vaguely threatening stuff.

However I haven't seen anyone locally wearing the stuff for ages, so maybe its now a non issue.
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Hasn't it always been a non issue?!
 
fburton said:
I think need to be more definite one way or another - either state it is prohibited and that people will be prosecuted if they wear POLITE tabards, or say it's okay - not this vaguely threatening stuff.


Hasn't it always been a non issue?!
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The police can't say it's prohibited they don't have the right to go round saying want people can or can't wear .
They can't say how a magistrate will interperate the law there is no case law in that as far as I am aware no rider has been taken to court for impersonating a police officer.
Why are they wasting time on this it's just mad.
I have not sure if I said on this thread or another had three drivers say I looked like the police ( except one did not use a polite name for them ) two thought itbwas amusing one was annoyed .
I was Not wearing polite stuff but can say yes You could say I looked like a mounted police person from a distance so what as you say it's a non issue.
 
I can't see why there's confusion.
Police say- don't wear it. They have other priorities that require police time, plus the considerable cost to the tax payer for prosecuting but the statement issued leaves the door open for an occasion when further action is warranted.
 
horserider said:
I can't see why there's confusion.
Police say- don't wear it. They have other priorities that require police time, plus the considerable cost to the tax payer for prosecuting but the statement issued leaves the door open for an occasion when further action is warranted.
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The police can't take it on them selves to decide that these tabards are unlawful type of clothing if they want to arrest a rider let them they will look pretty stupid.

Why on earth would anyone amend their behaviour because of this statement people should take their own choices .
While I agree totally with you about police time and costs but the remedy for that is very much in their own hands it will be the polices choice and the polices choice alone if they arrest someone .
 
Personally I can't believe the Police have nothing better to do. We got burgled recently and the Police never even bothered to come round. Nice to know if I go hacking in yellow gear with Polite written on it they will be here like a shot to arrest me.
 
It is NOT up to the police to dictate what any-one wears when participating in a hobby. If they really feel that riders are impersonating a police officer, they should arrest someone and let the judicial system decide. Parliament makes our laws and judges/magistrates interpret them in various circumstances, all the police do is uphold the law - make sure that we obey the law nd arrest us if we don't. CPS decide whether it is in the public interest to persue a case - I'd be very surprised if they decided to prosecute a horserider under those circumstances.
 
I asked my hubby what the general thoughts were, on this clothing, around his work place......his exact words were 'Yeah right, because that would be the main topic of conversation!' (followed by a snort) So I do think the Police are a little less concerned than we seem to think they are!! I do believe there are a few members of the general public that have seemed to have got on their soap boxes about it and are making complaints. I spent some moments, recently, convincing a woman I work with, that the little patchy pony that trundled passed our work place, was not a police horse......(yes some people really do think they are mounted police!!) She was quite shocked when I explained, and really didn't think it should be allowed!!!
 
I'm at a loss to understand the magic of these clothes. If it is argued that no one can mistake a rider, even momentarily, for a police officer, then, what is the advantage over plain Hi Viz ?

The whole point of the design is surely to fool a motorist into thinking they are about to pass the police. Does the word Polite have some advantage over the phrase 'Please pass wide and slow' ?
Do the chequered strips shine more brightly than Hi Viz and ordinary reflective strips?
If this were so, why don't road workers on motorways, who have one of the most dangerous jobs, wear the stuff ?

Logic says, the reason for wearing this range is because it looks like police clothing, therefore imitating a police officer and hoodwinking the public.

BTW, just wondering where all the one post only new members went ? The thread has an unusual number of them.

The best way to improve your chances of not being wiped off the road, is to wear Hi Viz, ride a horse you can control, ride in good visibility, on roads that are sensible to ride on and not during rush hour.
Pretending to be a police officer just further alienates the public, who may feel irked by momentarily being fooled. We depend on other road users for goodwill.
 
horserider said:
I'm at a loss to understand the magic of these clothes. If it is argued that no one can mistake a rider, even momentarily, for a police officer, then, what is the advantage over plain Hi Viz ?

The whole point of the design is surely to fool a motorist into thinking they are about to pass the police. Does the word Polite have some advantage over the phrase 'Please pass wide and slow' ?
Do the chequered strips shine more brightly than Hi Viz and ordinary reflective strips?
If this were so, why don't road workers on motorways, who have one of the most dangerous jobs, wear the stuff ?

Logic says, the reason for wearing this range is because it looks like police clothing, therefore imitating a police officer and hoodwinking the public.

BTW, just wondering where all the one post only new members went ? The thread has an unusual number of them.

The best way to improve your chances of not being wiped off the road, is to wear Hi Viz, ride a horse you can control, ride in good visibility, on roads that are sensible to ride on and not during rush hour.
Pretending to be a police officer just further alienates the public, who may feel irked by momentarily being fooled. We depend on other road users for goodwill.
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I like your thinking!
 
horserider said:
I'm at a loss to understand the magic of these clothes. If it is argued that no one can mistake a rider, even momentarily, for a police officer, then, what is the advantage over plain Hi Viz ?

The whole point of the design is surely to fool a motorist into thinking they are about to pass the police. Does the word Polite have some advantage over the phrase 'Please pass wide and slow' ?
Do the chequered strips shine more brightly than Hi Viz and ordinary reflective strips?
If this were so, why don't road workers on motorways, who have one of the most dangerous jobs, wear the stuff ?

Logic says, the reason for wearing this range is because it looks like police clothing, therefore imitating a police officer and hoodwinking the public.

BTW, just wondering where all the one post only new members went ? The thread has an unusual number of them.

The best way to improve your chances of not being wiped off the road, is to wear Hi Viz, ride a horse you can control, ride in good visibility, on roads that are sensible to ride on and not during rush hour.
Pretending to be a police officer just further alienates the public, who may feel irked by momentarily being fooled. We depend on other road users for goodwill.
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^^ this.

Actually I won't wear any hi viz that has writing on-I don't want anyone trying to read small print on my back while they are driving! (I do have a tabbard with a caution symbol on it I use for leading youngsters in hand, we are out in the sticks though) The company here has a questionable business manner, their rival company has been somewhat more responsible about the whole thing.

This bit bears repeating We depend on other road users for goodwill

We have 5 livery yards in the area, I can count on one hand, the amount of riders that ride appropriately and politely on the roads around me. I am a rider and it hacks me off.
 
horserider said:
I'm at a loss to understand the magic of these clothes.
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And I am at a loss to understand why some (including the police, apparently) think it is an issue at all. The officious letter is concerned with the impersonation side and not anything to do with safety.

If it is argued that no one can mistake a rider, even momentarily, for a police officer, then, what is the advantage over plain Hi Viz ?
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As you go on to say, the whole point of the design is to make think motorist think, if only momentarily and maybe only at a subconscious level, that the police are there - and in that moment, they instinctively jerk themselves out of whatever automatic mode of driving they are in and pay attention to what they are doing. The instant reaction would be to moderate their speed. I know, because I have the same reaction whenever I glimpse a chequered pattern on another vehicle.

Personally, I think the colour and pattern are more important as visual cues to "watch out!" than the word POLITE, which is clearly designed to look like the word POLICE. But if it adds to the effect for some people, then it is probably useful and it would have an advantage over "Please pass wide and slow".

I think one can get too hung up on the deceptive aspect. "Hoodwinking" strikes me as an unnecessarily emotive term. Yes, in a sense it is designed to "fool" motorists - but not to make fools of them. (Otherwise you might as well put "Ha ha, fooled you!" on the front of the tabard.) The imitation is intended only to make roads safer for riders, horses and motorists. It isn't intended to impersonate for any nefarious purpose, which is why I believe the CPS would never bring a prosecution unless there was good evidence that the rider had intended something other than self-protection.

I agree that simply wearing Hi Viz gives the best boost to safety. Let's face it, you'd be bonkers not to. Whether the additional measure of resembling the police gives any extra safety is unproven. Clearly people think it helps. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of some 'alienation' being caused, but would be surprised if it caused a reduction in road safety overall. There will always be some drivers who are irked no matter what. On the other hand, it has been said that some drivers are perfectly okay with the tabards. They don't bother me, as a driver, at all - why would they? What's important, imo, is whether any additional irkage of being "hoodwinked" doesn't make accidents more rather than less likely. If that was shown to be the case, I would change my mind and condemn the tabards in a flash.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
This bit bears repeating We depend on other road users for goodwill

We have 5 livery yards in the area, I can count on one hand, the amount of riders that ride appropriately and politely on the roads around me. I am a rider and it hacks me off.
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Agreed. However, I believe the most important factor in obtaining goodwill is how riders behave on the road towards other road users - basic consideration and courtesy - far more than whether or not they happen to be wearing something that resembles police gear.

"I don't want anyone trying to read small print on my back while they are driving!"

That's a fair point.
 
I fail to see whether a tabard says Police or Polite, is going to make a scrap of difference. If a car driver is close enough to read the writing, they will either be going at a sensible speed, or they wont and the chances are that they'll hit the horse anyway, regardless of how a notice is written. The chequer pattern, on the other hand, increases distance awareness and makes for perfect sense.

What is written on the back of clothing is of no relevance that I can see.

Alec.
 
The very first time I wore a Polite tabard (&the matching hat band),a woman driving a convertible Mercedes was bombing up a hill towards me (I had seen&heard her coming at speed,due to me riding downhill, towards her). As she got within 20-25ft of me,she instantly killed her speed and,what do you know,dropped the mobile phone that she was chatting on,(like a hot brick),into her lap&looked extremely stunned&sheepish. I rode on,smirking to myself. Yes-she absolutely thought I was a police officer but yes,she definitely killed her speed as well. Tho it helps that I was on a big,bay horse,seeing as she was approaching me forwards,it was the chequered pattern on the hat band&tabard that did it,not the wording...
 
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