Equine Dentistry

AdorableAlice

AdorableAlice

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Thoughts learned friends please.

In my work I get to view a lot of horses. It has become apparent that many owners are preferring to use so called EDT's instead of equine vets to maintain mouths. I am not interested in why, it may be cost or convenience etc, it matters not. What does matter is the amount of mouths that have been power tooled to such an extent that the teeth are now rounded off and unable to grind correctly. In the past two weeks I have seen two yards using differing EDTs and both have horses with smooth rounded teeth. One yard said to me they thought their horses had been made sore by the dentist as their horses were quidding after the work had been done and not before. Those horses are not sore they simply had billiard ball teeth courtesy of power tools.

In any horse this has a considerable impact as the years go by but for the older ones is can be a disaster.
In years gone by a horse was kept comfortable, today it seems the normal for teeth to excessively rasped - why ?
 
I have just had my two done today by a EDT, partly because my vets don't do dentistry work anymore!! I asked a few years ago and they said they have a preferred EDT they use and they just sedate if required. I am not overly keen on their preferred person so use my own EDT who is fab with the horses, but they both needed sedating so had vet and dentist here this morning!

I admit mine does use power tools however I have never noticed mine to struggle eating afterwards. I do remember though that up until the last few years power tools were not used and it was just hand rasping.

I do tend to have mine done yearly rather than 6 months preferred by others. Have heard stories of dentists over rasping the teeth and then by the time they are veterans there is nothing left!

Interesting to see what others think..
 
I have the vet coming to do the teeth on my two on Friday - I must admit I would usually use our EDT but he is so booked up in advance I have not been able to book him within a reasonable time - I have also NEVER seen him or heard of him using power tools - he is extremely popular locally, hence never being able to book him. My vets have only done the teeth once but I was happy with the service - again no power tools, just hand rasping.
 
I do use an EDT, but that is because I tend to have teeth done at vaccination time, and a few times I had a vet fresh out of the box, who did not appear (to me) to be very comfortable with the tools etc. I usually now have the vet have a look at vaccination time if they look comfortable and competent with injecting, and in the other 6 months have an EDT.

I have to fight not to have power tools. I can see their use if the horse is neglected and way out of line, but surely if the horse is done every 6 months a hand rasp should be sufficient. One EDT was booked through her mother, and when I said I wanted hand rasping not power tools she squealed down the phone "Do you want your horse to die a terrible death?" Er, no.... Hence him being seen every 6 months!

I am guessing that the power tools are easier on the arms. Personally I prefer hand tools.
 
My vet is a BAEDT, he doesn't use power tools except in very exceptional circumstances, has never used them on mine, just a simple hand rasping.
When i got the (late, RIP) CF, his teeth had been recently done in the month before i got him, power tooled like marbles poor chap, he only required a couple of little sharp points to be hand rasped a yr later. ...
 
I use a dentist because he doesn't sedate and has no problem whereas the vet always sedates regardless. I also know that the one I use is used by some vets on their own horses. Can't get better recommendation than that.
 
Oh God, this stresses me right out. I have a young horse and I want his teeth checking but don't know what to do for the best. Vets were always useless for teeth. Then I used an unqualified horse dentist for years without issues. Then I had a couple of horses who did have issues, was told how incompetent he was :( …. Back to vets who were also EDTs. Then just an EDT.

I can't help thinking whichever way I go I'll regret it in a couple of years.
 
I don't think that the problem is with power tools per se. It is how they are used. A less skilled and more gung ho operator may well overdo the smoothing off.

I currently use an EDT who uses power tools. His motto is very much 'less is more'. He works closely with local vets, one of whom also does a lot of dentistry and who would most definitely diss the EDT if his work was substandard (which it never is).
 
I've had an EDT qualified vet scalp a horse's teeth with power tools so badly there was nothing to take off for two years.

My gut feeling is that far too much intervention is going on with horse's teeth these days.

I've seen research that opening diastemas is causing problems of rotting teeth years later due to enamel removal to widen the gap. 'Wave mouth' treatment seems equally contentious.

I've been struggling to find a vet who won't use power tools since mine retired and my horses are now on two years, but are showing no signs of having the slightest issue. I'm going to get my non EDT vet to do them when the jabs are due soon.

And since when did horses routinely need doing every six months? I'm afraid that sounds like work creation for dentists to me.
 
Tiddlypom said:
I don't think that the problem is with power tools per se. It is how they are used. A less skilled and more gung ho operator may well overdo the smoothing off.QUOTE]
Kind of this...... I use an EDT who only uses power tools if she can't hand rasp eg we have an oldie on the yard with slightly wobbly teeth so hand rasping not feasible. She feels that you have a better 'feel' for the teeth with a hand rasp. Mine are checked every six months but don't need much work. She is very happy to talk through what she does and you can have a feel of sharp points etc. I use a EDT because I have always felt her training was better than a vets. Maybe I'm wrong there but I witnessed one of the younger vets in my practise (no longer with them) who put a gag on horse and had his mouth like that for ages. My EDT hand rasps without gag mostly so more comfortable for horse. She just opens regularly to check progress and feel.
I have worked in a Riding School though where another EDT comes in and does the yard of 40 in 2 short days with power tools and very little care taken.
Its like farriers these days too though. We have one visit our yard who bangs a set of shoes on in 1/2 hour with a 'one size fits all' mentality. No care taken whatsoever. Cheap though! Wouldn't let him near my horses if he was the last farrier on the planet!!!
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It took me years to find a good equine dentist and the guy i have know i trust 100% and is highly qualified. I would never use a vet for teeth. I don't think their vets teaching covers it intensively enough. We had to get a horse sedated for the dentist and a highly qualified vet from an equine hospital came to do the sedation and basically stayed on and asked the dentist for information about exactly what, where and why he was doing things, almost like a student. I remember at the time thinking 'thank god i didn't ask the vet to do his teeth!' Current dentist said he wouldn't touch powertools with a bargepole, that it just doesn't give the finesse needed. Having had ****** dentists and vets miss issues over the years I'm glad i ended up finally with a decent one.
 
Interesting comments and worrying. The comments have come from experienced people who know what an equine mouth should be, but there are zillions of owners out there that do not know and as their horses get into the oap stage are going to be in trouble.

Of course there are excellent EDTs that work alongside equine vets and I would have no problem with using one if I had to, but there must be a lot of not so excellent EDT's that are having a major impact on the horses they are seeing.

It is certainly pitiful to watch a friends horse, just 10 yr old, chewing and chewing at his haylage and unable to break it down enough to swallow. It is wrong but what is the answer.
 
Tiddlypom said:
I don't think that the problem is with power tools per se. It is how they are used. A less skilled and more gung ho operator may well overdo the smoothing off.

I currently use an EDT who uses power tools. His motto is very much 'less is more'. He works closely with local vets, one of whom also does a lot of dentistry and who would most definitely diss the EDT if his work was substandard (which it never is).
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Totally agree, power tools in the wrong hands can do a lot of damage, used correctly they can cause a lot less stress to the horse and are less likely to cause soft tissue damage. Often in older horses manual rasping can cause problems as the *drag* of the rasp can further loosen teeth that are expiring whereas a power tool used judiciously would not cause a problem. There's a time and a place for both types of rasping, a good EDT will know which to use when.

There are a lot of unqualified people practising equine dentistry or those that have gained a *qualification* after a very short course either here or abroad. A BAEDT qualified EDT will have had to produce a portfolio of 300 cases, evidence of suitable training and references from a vet and a qualified EDT before they undertake the rigorous BEVA/BVDA exams that they need to pass to become qualified. Once qualified they have to undertake regular CPD to remain a member of the BAEDT. The exam is not easy to pass and many fully qualified vets also sit it as well as EDT's.
 
We had our pony's teeth rasped this morning by the vet. Our usual was unavailable so they sent someone we've not met before. I was less than impressed I have to say - she was extremely quick to sedate. Esme didn't freak out but was a bit tense - manageabley so - as she's never had her teeth done before (came from a gypsy yard in June). I let her sedate as I could see she was nervous (the vet that is) so I felt it would be a better experience for Esme if both her and the vet were more relaxed. She wanted to use power tools but I insisted she just use the rasp, which was more than aqequate and the job was done very quickly once Esme was sleepy.

Unfortunately this evening Esme suffered a choke episode. It was probably the fact that she was able to eat quicker with her new smooth teeth, but I have to say I will resist sedation more strongly in future.

I agree with you AA and others that power tools are just not necessary in most cases and can be easily over used.
 
The BAEDT (British Association of Equine Dental Technicians) have a mentor scheme. Trainees buddy up with a qualified and experienced EDT, and shadow them.

Here is my EDT, the guy on the left, checking the work of his trainee. This was a 22yo loan mare who had a mouthful of razor blades, it was not known when or if she was previously rasped. Both men took great care to take as little as possible off, whilst making her more comfortable.

image.jpg2_zpsxuwlgvpv.jpg


It's worrying to hear that there are subsstandard dentists out there, I thought that equine dentistry was much better regulated these days.

I'd prefer a light touch with power tools than a heavily operated manual rasp.
 
It is something that I was mulling over this morning, my vet uses power tools and my sensitive horse needs sedating, my EDT did only use hand tools but at his last visit used a power tool and finished with a hand rasp all the horses were fine and easy to do as usual.

My own horse was not done then as he had got out of sync and nothing required doing but he is now at 12 months and I am dithering, vet to sedate for EDT? vet to do teeth and sedate? or risk EDT not being able to do him if he tries and fails with the power tool? He is just about able to cope with hand tools but after a bad mouth injury, nothing to do with having teeth done, I don't want him upset too much, so any recommendations for an EDT in the Somerset area who uses hand tools and is patient???
 
be positive said:
It is something that I was mulling over this morning, my vet uses power tools and my sensitive horse needs sedating, my EDT did only use hand tools but at his last visit used a power tool and finished with a hand rasp all the horses were fine and easy to do as usual.

My own horse was not done then as he had got out of sync and nothing required doing but he is now at 12 months and I am dithering, vet to sedate for EDT? vet to do teeth and sedate? or risk EDT not being able to do him if he tries and fails with the power tool? He is just about able to cope with hand tools but after a bad mouth injury, nothing to do with having teeth done, I don't want him upset too much, so any recommendations for an EDT in the Somerset area who uses hand tools and is patient???
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I can strongly recommend Vicky Hammond http://www.equinedental.co.uk/ She has been doing my lot for nearly 6 years and I am sure there are quite a few other forum members who use her. She is lovely with the horses, big or small. In fact my smallest is the one that has needed more work than any as he has ended up needing two extractions, one caused by a diastema. She is Somerset based, but travels up my way and beyond periodically. Tell her Niki with Cam, Milligan etc. recommended her. x

ETA Vicky does use power tools on mine as they are fine, but she is the sort of person who would use what is appropriate. Have a chat with her. x
 
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be positive said:
It is something that I was mulling over this morning, my vet uses power tools and my sensitive horse needs sedating, my EDT did only use hand tools but at his last visit used a power tool and finished with a hand rasp all the horses were fine and easy to do as usual.

My own horse was not done then as he had got out of sync and nothing required doing but he is now at 12 months and I am dithering, vet to sedate for EDT? vet to do teeth and sedate? or risk EDT not being able to do him if he tries and fails with the power tool? He is just about able to cope with hand tools but after a bad mouth injury, nothing to do with having teeth done, I don't want him upset too much, so any recommendations for an EDT in the Somerset area who uses hand tools and is patient???
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If it was me and I was happy with my EDT I would explain this to him and ask him if he would use hand tools and if so I would book him
 
Arzada said:
If it was me and I was happy with my EDT I would explain this to him and ask him if he would use hand tools and if so I would book him
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I did sort of broach this but he was not really listening, he said he has never had a problem and I think he will want to try the power tool, the horse may be fine but with his history I just don't want to risk upsetting him, he is still very unsure about his mouth being handled and I don't want him to have another bad experience at this stage.

I am going to contact Vicky Hammond as I have heard good things about her previously, thanks for reminding me niki.
 
I has one bad and one nightmare experience with EDT's the nightmare left a beautiful talented kind mare maimed for life after that only a vet who done dentistry training gets near my horse .
 
Flame_ said:
Oh God, this stresses me right out. I have a young horse and I want his teeth checking but don't know what to do for the best. Vets were always useless for teeth. Then I used an unqualified horse dentist for years without issues. Then I had a couple of horses who did have issues, was told how incompetent he was :( …. Back to vets who were also EDTs. Then just an EDT.

I can't help thinking whichever way I go I'll regret it in a couple of years.
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I feel your pain. I'm not sure which way to go!
 
I think power tools on the whole are less stressful for the horse, but clearly not if the operator is gung ho and leaving a horse with a mouthful of marbles.

I think a lot depends what area you are in - in areas with plenty of good EDTs vets probably don't see enough teeth to become really experienced or make it worthwhile investing in specialist training and equipment.

We are lucky to have an extremely good EDT come to our yard. He uses power tools and hand tools as necessary, explains what he's doing and encourages the owner to look and feel and understand. Nothing ever needs sedating, he is very patient and calm and they all accept what he's doing. There are horses on the yard in their 20s and 30s who he's been doing for years, and none of them have dental problems.
 
I have a great EDT (as was his dad before him) who I have had for years and trust, I wouldn't use anyone else. He is also incredibly patient and understanding with the nervous youngsters I've had previously.

I have also used an awful EDT in the past who did more harm than good, and a vet who was completely incompetent, and nervous of horses.
 
I am quite lucky in that the veterinary practice I use has two vets who are also qualified EDTs and I think a third one has now qualified too. One of the two original vets in particular is excellent and now does teeth almost exclusively. He's who I'll be asking for when they're due in a few months. I do find equine dentistry a massive worry - it's much harder for me to know if a good job has been done than with a hoof trim etc. All I can do is monitor how they're eating before and after.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Maybe we as owners should do away with 'due to be done' and replace it with 'if needed' ?
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See, I agree with this. If your bobbo is eating well, not dropping food & not showing any signs of discomfort, is it fair to stress them by getting their mouth held open & horrible stuff put in their mouths? I'm terrified of the dentist & I am a rational human!
 
AdorableAlice said:
Maybe we as owners should do away with 'due to be done' and replace it with 'if needed' ?
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The problem I have with this is that horses are such stoic animals. My mid 20s Sec A had seemed 'fine' for years, no quidding, nothing. Since he has had a couple of extractions, I can really see how much better he is and he chomps merrily through anything he gets. Maybe I am a bad owner, but he never lost condition and always managed to eat, but in hindsight, he was probably managing, rather than being comfortable. Personally I think it is all about finding a professional you trust and that cares about the horses.
 
nikicb said:
The problem I have with this is that horses are such stoic animals. My mid 20s Sec A had seemed 'fine' for years, no quidding, nothing. Since he has had a couple of extractions, I can really see how much better he is and he chomps merrily through anything he gets. Maybe I am a bad owner, but he never lost condition and always managed to eat, but in hindsight, he was probably managing, rather than being comfortable. Personally I think it is all about finding a professional you trust and that cares about the horses.
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You can get their tongue out and have a feel, bit risky mind ! It is all down to trusting the professionals I suppose, which is why I use a vet. I doubt many EDTs will come onto the yard and tell you nothing is needed.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Maybe we as owners should do away with 'due to be done' and replace it with 'if needed' ?
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I do wonder about this, but then I worry that they might be in discomfort and I wouldn't notice until it became really obvious. My old mare in particular doesn't tend to make a fuss. Sometimes it is really hard to know what to do for the best. I fret every year when it comes to dentist time :/
 
AdorableAlice said:
You can get their tongue out and have a feel, bit risky mind ! It is all down to trusting the professionals I suppose, which is why I use a vet. I doubt many EDTs will come onto the yard and tell you nothing is needed.
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As you say, it's down to trusting the people you work with. And I mean very much that. But I wouldn't go to my GP with a toothache. As soon as I have anyone here that starts dictating and not listening to the person (me!) that looks after the horses the other 364 days of the year, then my trust goes completely. I am the same with cold callers! My EDT is lovely, she genuinely cares, and I am not being naive when I say that.

I should add that I don't think I know better than any vet/EDT etc. But anecdotal information is useful and should be taken into account when looking at issues. x
 
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