Equine Rescue France is formed!

[EMWSanctuaries]

for the long term foresee-able future there will continue to be a market for meat of all kinds, horse, cow, pig, sheep, poultry etc
The issue isn't the slaughter, although as mairi points out, it isn't always a clinical procedure.
The issue is, and has been for many years, the long distance transportation of heavily pregnant mares, foals and old horses.
The ILPH grounds for raising awareness are well known and documented,we've all seen the terrible images of the horses arriving at slaughter houses In Italy. EQUINE MARKET WATCH Sanctuaries UK, support the ILPH campaign whole-heartedly.

EMW Sanctuaries UK, with funds purpose generated in July, were able to take one 18 year old Percheron mare from a fattening farm in france. That mare, Cybelle, is in a secure safe home for life and, as with all EMW equines, does have a loan contract beneath her should anything go wrong, if that happens she will come back to one of our sanctuaries and remain with us, safe and secure.
Cybelle arrived with many problems, full of worms, infected leg wounds and very stiff from the long journey, she also had teeth problems, was shut down and depressed.
All these things take time to remedy. She is only now coming out of that depressed state.
Our policy is that we will not take in any horse, pony or donkey as a deliberate financial act unless we A) have the funding and B) have the home (pre-checked, suitable and approved) ready and waiting.
If EMW Sanctuaries UK took in every horse from sad and disturbing circumstances we would be stacking equines 10 deep within weeks - that is not quality of life.
EMW Sanctuaries are very much supporting Equine Rescue France as they are working within their own country for the benefit of equines in that country and have first hand knowledge of conditions, regulations and re-homing issues.
The best way to deal with issues regarding equines for the meat trade is to campaign and lobby both Euro MP's for the EU, and UK MP's for UK concerns. The UK meat market does exist and is equally as disturbing as issues abroad.
By raising awareness the hope is that all animals will get the dignity of local slaughter instead of gruelling journeys of many 1000's of miles.
EQUINE MARKET WATCH Sanctuaries UK
"We will NOT look away"
WORKING IN MARKETS, AUCTIONS AND HORSE FAIRS for the benefit of equines in the UK

emw.

 

[ISHmad]

The great thing about your french mare is that she has the safety net of EMW behind her should anything go wrong with her loan home. And this is fantastic and the reason why you are one of the various horse charities that I am quite happy to support.


And Equine Rescue France is to be commended for what they are doing too. There is no doubt that they will continue to campaign for an end to the tortourous journeys these poor equines face, prior to slaughter. Sherman posted some really good and informative details on this thread, and is clearly dedicated to helping to improve things.

I will continue to support the ILPH too, and their Hook Not Hoof Campaign, as this is the real issue here which is being addressed so well by EMW and Equine Rescue France. Lobbying MP's and the like is something I am more than happy to do as well.

It is worrying to see two rescue horses already being moved on, or at least their owners wanting them moved on after the considerable disruptions in their lives. Lucky Cybelle to always have sanctuary with you if she needs it EMW.

 

[blueberry]

What wonderful work you are doing!!

Due to the awareness Sultan's Rescue and interest has raised, many people in our local area have contacted our shop expressing a desire to want to 'do something' either monitary or otherwise. We have and will continue to direct people to organisations such as yourselves and the ILPH.
This offers the opportunity for the biggest difference to be made.

 

[minkymoo]

[ QUOTE ]
The ILPH as you are all aware have hoof not hook campaign underway, so please support this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume that you meant the Hook NOT hoof rather than the other way around!!

 

[minkymoo]

[ QUOTE ]
We all know horses are not cattle or sheep, they don't stand a chance of emerging from the meat wagons in good shape. The actual slaughter in some countries is cruel and makes horses suffer needlessly.
/quote]

TBH as an animal lover I find this slightly distasteful. I genuinely feel that any live export of any animal is fairly revolting and I don't think any animal emerges from meat wagons in 'good shape'. Long distance movement of meat should be done as carcasses and not as live animals regardless of whether it is a cow, sheep or horse.

 

[S_N]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We all know horses are not cattle or sheep, they don't stand a chance of emerging from the meat wagons in good shape. The actual slaughter in some countries is cruel and makes horses suffer needlessly.
/quote]

TBH as an animal lover I find this slightly distasteful. I genuinely feel that any live export of any animal is fairly revolting and I don't think any animal emerges from meat wagons in 'good shape'. Long distance movement of meat should be done as carcasses and not as live animals regardless of whether it is a cow, sheep or horse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absabloodylutely!!!!! Hear, hear!!!

 

[Suzibn]

I was not trying to be evangelical. Just trying to make a point.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Sounds a rather barbaric and cruel way to kill a horse to me

 

[ISHmad]

This highlights why it is so important that there is back up to any rescues, just like EMW are providing to their french rescue mare who is now out on loan:

http://ihdg.proboards91.com/index.cgi?board=area41&action=display&thread=1189777235

Anyone's circumstances can change, but this is the third one now that we know of already that is possibly going to need moving on again.

 

[lisacarrera]

We are working on this being a possibility. Still alot of logistics to sort out.

These are still private owners and no horse is owned by any of these sites. However we are looking into possibilities at present and in the mean time helping owners and offering support after should they hit any difficulties whether change of circumstance, unforeseen bills, health and otherwise. Had we ever intended to have become a rescue site in such a large scale this would have been done before the site was born, however this was not the case, it was the plight of a few horses that grew. We couldnt shut down and let many go to slaughter without trying to help them. We are constantly taking on more volunteers in order to cope to the best of our ability with this, whilst getting together a better system as well as looking into setting up as an officially. Just like ERF it came about after we (ES, NV and now ERF which has been founded by the one of the lovely ladies from NV) worked closely to get as many out as possible. However i agree a safety net would be much needed should things go wrong and we are looking into all of these things.

The mare that is for rehoming does in fact have a safety net, she was bought by a lady who has a rescue rehab and is currently at a loan home.

The lady who is now in difficulty due to her situation has also been offered support where we and ERF have offered to help with logistics of paperwork so she can keep her horse. As well as other options.

Regards
Equine Section

 

[lisacarrera]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The ILPH as you are all aware have hoof not hook campaign underway, so please support this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume that you meant the Hook NOT hoof rather than the other way around!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes ofcourse, it does not let you eddit after several minutes. Im sure most people knew what i meant. Writing justifications and feeding a baby can sometimes get abit complicated, but there we are.

Regards Equine Section.

 

[blueberry]

Is it fair to presume that the individuals -who, for whatever reason- are needing to rehome their rescue horse are not responsible enough to ensure they will re-home them suitably?

I believe that everything has the right to life (although i accept there are situations/illness etc that affects this).

What these horses were offered is a chance that no-one else was offering them.
Thanks to all individuals involved in theses rescues a large amount of horses have now the opportunity to that right.

No-one deals with a 'meat man' in the purchase of these horses and none are bought from a 'meat man'.
They are mainly farmers who volunteers are working endlessly with to intervene and to allow them to be sold privately but for the same value as 'meat'.
In fact it is more trouble for the famers to sell these horses in this way. It is far more easier for the farmers to sell them all at once and to go all at once on that '5 star luxury horsebox' to another land.

There is no con, in this particular situation-the horse is weighed on a weighbridge, we recieve the weighbridge ticket and you are advised of the value of the 'meat' per kilo. You make the calculation and pay that price.



Many people re-home their horses-should they also be critisized?

 

[lisacarrera]

Re the emotional con comment, that is your worry , view and opinon. I respect that, there is alot of dishonesty when it comes to the plights of animals, it happens alot even with charities. But guys i have a young family to raise single handed youngest a baby of 14 weeks old, i am here everyday with a few others fighting the corner of these horses and all i have to gain is a very large phone bill and a smile for everyone we save, and a broken heart when i have to place the ones we lost in rainbow bridge just like i did today. If no-one rescued another horse we will still be here that wont change we will be happy with what has been saved and continue to use the plight of the horses to end live export for slaughter. I understand as a unrecognised bodie many will be and are critical/sceptical but to be honest we have nothing to gain from this, All organisations start of as non profit/volentary before the can get charity status. I personally dont want to go down that route of getting charity status. So will are setting up as non proffit.

 

[lisacarrera]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it fair to presume that the individuals -who, for whatever reason- are needing to rehome their rescue horse are not responsible enough to ensure they will re-home them suitably?


[/ QUOTE ]


We have made it clear to everyone that if they find themself in trouble for what ever reason dont be ashamed to say and stuggle on alone when together we can come up with a solution. On my forum people can talk freely and help/advice is offered in any areas its available.

Unfortunately but i hope this is not the case, i think people will now keep quiet or not as forth coming about any issues they may be having after reading threads like the one we are on now.

Equine Section

 

[Suzibn]

Here, Here, Equine Section,
A good point is raised here. I have been in the horse business for over 50 years now, both in the USA and here in England.
If no one rehomed due to financial circumstances, ill health, or simply because they wanted to move up a step to a better horse, or from pony to horse without a "safety net", there would be no Horse and Hound, Friday Ad or other mags chock full of advertisements for "sound, healthy, no vices, novice ride", or" 5 star Dressage Horse, schoolmaster" (oh, I'm sure the dressage horse described will just love his life in a livery yard with people pulling on his mouth and sending confusing signals his way).
I have an idea! Why don't we all just get out of horses period. We'll do it the PETA way, no more horses for anybody because someone might "mistreat them". Then we won't have to continue this rediculous conversation full of malicious accusations, unfounded rumours and half truths.
Won't we all be happier then?
Suzibn

 

[lisacarrera]

Crikey i really shouldnt rush and type with 1 finger. Id never make a secretary

back to front upside down inside out. Well its not for the want of trying!

 

[Suzibn]

Typing skills do not have a great deal to do with loving horses, being an accomplished horsewoman, rescuing 70 equines or having a big heart. If all it took was typing skills then there would be an awful lot of office workers out mucking stalls!
Love ya
Suzi

 

[blueberry]

Of course they will ensure that their rescued horses are suitably re-homed (to add to my thread)! and there is no harm in admitting they may need help, in fact it is commendable that they feel they can (lets remember that it is on a like minded, supportive forum that they are doing so)

Sometimes circumstances change beyond our control.

They are responsible and caring adults -as they have already proved by saving a horse in the first place.

 

[Tia]

Responsible people consider their long term situation before they leap in and take any animals into their care.

 

[blueberry]

It can also be said that responsible people also think before they speak or type as that may be.

In a perfect world everyone would have the foresight to see into the future but then again in a perfect world this would no be even an issue because in a perfect world there would be compassion for all living things and live export (which is the point of topic) and inhumane butchering would not exist.

So really what i am saying is that no-one is perfect and these individuals are not answerable to you or anybody else for that fact.

 

[Tia]

Oh goodness, PMSL! I certainly don't expect them to be answerable to me or anyone else....that's funny!

Nope, people are purely answerable to their own conscience and of course they are answerable to any living being in their care. Let's hope they think a bit harder about the consequences of having children eh?

 

[peter1959]

[ QUOTE ]
Responsible people consider their long term situation before they leap in and take any animals into their care.

[/ QUOTE ]
such a shame we do ot have a crystal ball to hand, who knows what is around the corner? Shame we are not all in the

very secure position as others as it seems

 

[peter1959]

to those people such as myself who have the pleasure of having children. Children are a blessing and many adults who have not borne them are very selfish indeed!

 

[ISHmad]

[ QUOTE ]
We are working on this being a possibility. Still alot of logistics to sort out.

These are still private owners and no horse is owned by any of these sites. However we are looking into possibilities at present and in the mean time helping owners and offering support after should they hit any difficulties whether change of circumstance, unforeseen bills, health and otherwise. Had we ever intended to have become a rescue site in such a large scale this would have been done before the site was born, however this was not the case, it was the plight of a few horses that grew. We couldnt shut down and let many go to slaughter without trying to help them. We are constantly taking on more volunteers in order to cope to the best of our ability with this, whilst getting together a better system as well as looking into setting up as an officially. Just like ERF it came about after we (ES, NV and now ERF which has been founded by the one of the lovely ladies from NV) worked closely to get as many out as possible. However i agree a safety net would be much needed should things go wrong and we are looking into all of these things.

The mare that is for rehoming does in fact have a safety net, she was bought by a lady who has a rescue rehab and is currently at a loan home.

The lady who is now in difficulty due to her situation has also been offered support where we and ERF have offered to help with logistics of paperwork so she can keep her horse. As well as other options.

Regards
Equine Section

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the rational and sensible reply Equine Section, you, Sherman and EMW have done much to put a balanced view across on this sensitive subject. It gets VERY frustrating when clearly some of the other people posting on here don't bother to read the posts properly to be honest...

My last post said that it was good that the french mare EMW took on has that safety net. And it also said that people's circumstances do change. But good old Blueberry just chooses to ignore that and rant on - again. Which really isn't helping the cause.

What you are looking to do in terms of safety nets/back up's and the like is to be commended. And as other posters on here have said hopefully individuals themselves will think through the longer term implications before jumping in. Because at the end of the day we all know that a horse is a huge financial commitment in itself. No matter how rewarding it feels to have saved one there is still a lot of cost involved which people must be sure they can manage and not just be carried away "in the moment".

A well balanced debate/discussion such as that facilitated by yourself, Sherman and EMW would have been really interesting. The way it has been hijacked by well meaning but ranting do gooders in the interim really doesn't help your case. And I appreciate what you are saying about people perhaps not wanting to disclose any problems too in light of threads like this.

But if you are serious about these rescues then you pretty much have a duty for these issues to be in the public domain for people to make a balanced well informed decision. Good luck with your organisation as it grows, hope that you are able to find a suitable framework which suits everyone.

 

[lisacarrera]

Hi ISH-MAD. We (Our staff) have recently had a discussion about having open threads on our website for the positive and negative surrounding taking a horse. There will be wonderful heart warming stories as well as nightmare situations that we have had to deal with. I do tell people when they ring and ask how easy it is, my answer is always its a nightmare because it really is but we get there in the end (usually) with the exception of the comtois. Also that unless they can go visit they are taking a horse off the cuff, it may be a bargain but it may be the most expensive horse you'll ever take. But yes we agree that it will be an eye opener for all the things that can go wrong. We want people to go into this with a realistic view. And there is so many hurdles to jump walls we hit but we over come these and learn very fast.

We are looking to go non profit, this will then be a safety net for anyone having difficulties e.g. owner illness where they need rest bite, stallions can be cut before going to new homes etc. and ofcourse a permanent rest stop if need be, all sorts of scenarios. But as we cant take donations or ask for funding due to our lack of status we are currently appealing for help from a body who can help us set up, maybe as a sponsorship.

If anyone on here or anywhere has any suggestions on how to make things simpler more effective (apart from lobbying and signing petition as we are onto that) please do come forward, we are on our own forum listening to what people are saying and we have had some excellent suggestions so far, unfortunately most cant be done until were an official set up.



If anyone can help we also welcome this. Im so glad to read on here that so many of you are supporting the ILPH and will be having a petition signing frenzy! brilliant. one hundred thousand signatures are needed, sounds allot but i believe its possible. I have seen plenty of our own horses go off via ireland then from there to France and other EU countries. So by highlighting the horses we do is hitting it in the heart of where it happens, Once we get a ban throughout EU it wont be cost effective to live transport ours through the loophole's either. I don't know if anyone noticed there was a few horses there that looked very much like Welsh section A's

.

If we finaly get our way ( i mean all of us, ILPH all of us) re Live export for slaughter, next step has to be strict laws on breeding and more not less local abotiors, there will always be a need for disposal. Sad but thats the reality of the world.

Kind Regards Equine Section

 

[blueberry]

I am so pleased you are displaying support to the organisations involved in the welfare of horses and the campaign against live export.

in reply to o my critic:
This has, i feel, been a worthwhile debate and of course opinions may differ-as you would expect.
I 'hijacked' this thread very early in the discussion stage to offer an insight into my experience and rationale of rescuing a french rescue horse-of which had relevance to this debate.

You have at times-with an intellectual arrogance attempted to intimidate indivuduals who have joined this thread and others (though not always in a polite or respectful manner).

You have been clearly irritated by my 'rantings' but if people were not passionate to rant on then nothing would ever change for the better in this world.

I, as a child, was brought up in an age where children were seen and not heard. I can remember well the consequence of being the main one out of my siblings who could not 'adhere' to this rule, more so when i felt an unjust.
Four years ago i began to write a book, highlighting concerns i had with the educational support of pupils in mainstream schools (i specialise in autism). I remember being told that the book would cause some controversy but the need to try to make a difference was/is worthwhile enough to continue.

So what i am saying is that as well as myself, we ALL have a right to do what WE think is right, follow our own conscience and feel able to voice an opinion without intimidation, ridicule or otherwise

 

[Suzibn]

Everyone who buys a horse thinks they are doing the right thing, wether it be a show horse at top level, or just a rescue from france. No one can see that they may be struck down with a disease they have no control of and suddenly have to rehome or sell their horses. Interesting to note that rescue horse is up for loan, where-as show horse is for sale. Shows you where the heart is in rescue people.
Suzi

 

[S_N]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone who buys a horse thinks they are doing the right thing, wether it be a show horse at top level, or just a rescue from france. No one can see that they may be struck down with a disease they have no control of and suddenly have to rehome or sell their horses. Interesting to note that rescue horse is up for loan, where-as show horse is for sale. Shows you where the heart is in rescue people.
Suzi

[/ QUOTE ]

IME that is a complete load of TOSH!!!!! Should any of my horses (one of whom is only 1 and pretty much undefeated in his age group in the show ring) EVER come down with a DISEASE (as a pose to condition/syndrome), that was incurable and likely to infect and cause other horses ill health, then I would PTS!!! With regards to any coming down with a condition/syndrome, that was to halt their career/affect their quality of life I would also PTS as that is the kind, responsible and HUMANE thing to do!!! I love my horses - I work bloody hard to keep them and show them and they don't owe me A THING!!!! Therefore I will always do my absolute best by them, even at the end!!! EVERYONE I have ever worked for (and believe me I have worked for some of the biggest names in the in International Horse Industry - Competition horse and Racehorses) has instilled this in me. You tar far too many with your brush my dear and that's made me exceedingly cross!!!!

 

[PapaFrita]

Umm, I think they might've meant the owner coming down with a disease

As for the rest of it, I agree with you

 

[Tia]

I agree with you ISH. The people you mentioned (the ones who are actually running these organisations) really have conducted themselves well in this discussion and have underlined the problems they have met along the way. They show that this is not something they have undertaken lightly and they are fully committed in the long run for doing something to help the plight of these animals and most importantly encouraging any people who haven't already done so, to read and hopefully sign the ILPH petition - I join in with you ISH and commend them. Well done you guys.