Equisal tapeworm test

FP we can't jump straight to the conclusion that it's a resistance problem though it may be. There is also under dosing to consider and the fact that we may find some horses need more frequent tapeworm treatments and others never need any. There is lots to discover with this exciting new test.
 
If you were using one wormer a year it would not be Equimax. This does not treat encysted redworm. It should be Equest. If you used Equest Pramox that would also treat tapeworm. Fine if it works for your horse. What if you have a horse who needs tapeworm treatment more often than that? How will you know? My own pony had praziquantel in March but still had a 'high' tapeworm result in the summer which I would never have suspected or known about. Conversely the other horses in the herd did not, and still do not need worming for tapeworm. Lots to consider.
 
Borderreiver said:
There is lots to discover with this exciting new test.
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But you work for Westgate.

So, just clarify, with egg counts and the new test for tapes, are you saying there is no need to worm at all or would you still need to worm at least once a year ?

Sorry, just seen your post. now I'm even more confused. How often would you need to test for tapes then ? Once, twice, or even three times a year ?
 
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MerrySherryRider said:
But you work for Westgate.

So, just clarify, with egg counts and the new test for tapes, are you saying there is no need to worm at all or would you still need to worm at least once a year ?

Sorry, just seen your post. now I'm even more confused. How often would you need to test for tapes then ? Once, twice, or even three times a year ?
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You would still need to worm once a year to cover encysted and bots and would use equest for this. The benefit of not using pramox (which would do tapes as well) is that you are not putting praziquantal into the horse's body just for the sake of it.

The cost of the tapeworm test is pretty high if you have more than 1 horse but I am not sure ATM how often you would need to test and how long the results would last for. Also what if you have a high tapeworm test. Would you treat and then do a reduction test as for redworm. And how soon afterwards would you do a reduction test which could prove pretty costly. OTOH how do you know if the equitape has actually worked if you don't test?
So many questions.
 
MerrySherry Westgate is my business where we are as passionate about improving horse worming as we were when we first started fifteen years ago.
The tapeworm test has been developed by a small team of scientists (also horse owners) at Austin Davis Biologics, known as Equisal. We are working with them as they have the same passion as we do, but they do all the tapeworm tests in their lab. At present they recommend testing twice a year for tapeworm.
In reality we would like to get people to start testing and to realise how good the test is. It may be that you worm once a year for tapes and do an initial test six months later. If this was low then all well and good. If not then already you know that your particular horse needs more than one dose a year.
As Paddy says 'So many questions'. This is a very new way of looking at tapeworming and there is a lot to discover. We can't go on with the old ways, bunging in drugs just in case. They might not even be working and then your horse is at risk. I'm certainly glad I discovered the problem in my own pony. You would not do a reduction test as antibody levels don't fall straight away, simply test again in six months.

A double dose of pyrantel is almost the same cost as the test, it's not so expensive. We all pay out masses to have our horses feet correctly seen to or to buy new rugs and it is much less expensive than that. We sell this test but we make very little profit on it believe me. The clever machine used to process the samples cost huge amounts for the lab to buy and they have kept the cost of the test down as far as possible.
Our worming advice is freely given as ever.
 
I normally worm count and would like to introduce this test into my programme, as working in drug development (humans, not animals), I am well aware of resistance problems and that there are zero new drugs in the pipeline.

Mine were last wormed for tapeworm last autumn so it it time again, but I last used double dose pyrantel so it'll be praziquantel this time. To save money I'd like to use equest pramox and cover encysted red worms too, so what would be the best time to dose? September like you would for tape? Or December like you would for reds or somewhere in between? Then I'd plan to use the equisal test after 6 months as recommended above
 
paddy555 said:
You would still need to worm once a year to cover encysted and bots and would use equest for this. The benefit of not using pramox (which would do tapes as well) is that you are not putting praziquantal into the horse's body just for the sake of it.

The cost of the tapeworm test is pretty high if you have more than 1 horse but I am not sure ATM how often you would need to test and how long the results would last for. Also what if you have a high tapeworm test. Would you treat and then do a reduction test as for redworm. And how soon afterwards would you do a reduction test which could prove pretty costly. OTOH how do you know if the equitape has actually worked if you don't test?
So many questions.
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Is using a praziquantal wormer more harmful than using, say, Equest ? What is the difference in side effects ? Can't say I'm a fan of Equest Paramox,which does tapes, as it caused one of mine to colic, so using a less aggressive wormer would be a positive.

How effective are the wormers for tapes because if you give something like Equitape and it doesn't work, what do you do then ? Do you retest, use another wormer, retest and so on ? Isn't it reasonable to assume that the Equitape has worked in a normal, healthy horse ?

I think the new test is potentially very useful particularly with a vulnerable horse or when introducing to a new herd etc, but if you still need to worm once a year, why not use one that covers all bases instead of spending £20 per horse on a test when you're going to worm anyway ?
 
Borderreiver said:
It's a really useful test. I think H&H were irresponsible to write that 'some vets are sceptical'. Of course they are, they won't know much about it yet. The company who have developed this test have thorough validation of all aspects available to back it up when those sceptical vets get round to reading it.
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:D

I'll be using it.
 
Re. the wormers for tapes, afaik the situation still is that there is resistance to pyrantel (double dose) but not to praziquantel (pramox/equitape/equimax). Therefore if I have been treating twice a year I have ensure that one of the treatments has been the latter.

I am not a great fan of pramox myself either (some horses do seem to find it a bit too much and when I want to worm for tapes (autumn/spring) I am not worrying about encysted redworm to need the moxidectin and will choose to usually use equimax in sept/oct time, equest once near christmas to do the encysteds.

I'm not sure whether the recommendation to treat for tapes in autumn/spring is just historical or based on fact. BR might be able to help me on that one! - I think it might just be because it is a handy 6 month interval that doesn't require a treatment for encysteds?
 
Borderreiver I presume as you are working with Equisal you do realise that a high equisal test result does not necessarily mean that your pony has a high tapeworm burden.

From my correspondence with Equisal the test will only tell you if you horse has tapeworm it does not differentiate between 1 tape worm and 100 tapeworms so there no way of knowing your pony has a high tapeworm burden using the Equisal test as he could just have a few tape worms and you would get the same result as if had 100s of tapeworms.

I think this is something very important to consider when getting the equisal results back as it is not prominent on the website {certainly caused me some confusion i only found this out when I downloaded the scientific leaflet and then double checked this with Equisal} that the result moderate/high means one tapeworm or more and as they cannot tell you what level of infection your horse has only that is has at least one tapeworm then they have to recommend that you worm if your horse tests positive for tapeworm. This means that if your horse just has one tape worm you would still get the moderate/high test result!

I think it a great idea and very helpful in terms of identifying horses with tape worm but it has to be clear it is a very different test to the worm counts and possibly they should look at changing the results to either "negative" or "positive" and have it very clear on the website that a positive result only tells you the horse has at least one tapeworm and they cannot tell you the level of infestation and for that reason a positive result will always mean a recommendation for treatment.

Borderreiver said:
If you were using one wormer a year it would not be Equimax. This does not treat encysted redworm. It should be Equest. If you used Equest Pramox that would also treat tapeworm. Fine if it works for your horse. What if you have a horse who needs tapeworm treatment more often than that? How will you know? My own pony had praziquantel in March but still had a 'high' tapeworm result in the summer which I would never have suspected or known about. Conversely the other horses in the herd did not, and still do not need worming for tapeworm. Lots to consider.
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Just a quick update to say I got my results, and it is "low" no treatment recommended, which is very good news :-)

Apache hates being wormed, so at least I can leave it a little while before using Equest.
 
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